Repeating the name of Allaah on its own, or the pronoun “Huwa” (He), is a Sufi bid’ah

Anonymous (not verified) —

Repeating the name of Allaah on its own, or the pronoun “Huwa” (He), is a Sufi bid’ah

Praise be to Allaah.

There is no doubt that it is bid’ah to mention the name of Allaah on its own or –even worse – to repeat the pronoun “Huwa” (“He”). Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The Name of Allaah on its own, either as a noun (“Allaah”) or a pronoun (“Huwa”) is not a complete phrase or meaningful sentence. It has no implications to do with eemaan (faith) or kufr (disbelief), commands or prohibitions. This was not mentioned by anyone from the Salaf (early generations) of this ummah, and it was not prescribed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). It does not bring any knowledge to the heart or bestow any kind of benefit upon it. All it does is give an unclear idea which is not defined by any negation or affirmation. Unless there is previous knowledge in a person's mind or he is in a state of mind where he could benefit from this, he gains no benefit at all. Islam prescribes adhkaar which in and of themselves bring benefit to the heart, without any such need for anything else.

Some of those who persisted in this kind of “dhikr” ended up in various kinds of heresies and ideas of “wahdat al-wujood” (unity of all that exists, pantheism), as has been explained in detail elsewhere.

It was mentioned that one of the shaykhs said: “I am afraid of dying between negation and affirmation”, but this is not an example to be followed, because it is obviously erroneous. If a person were to die in this state, he would die according to his intention, because actions are judged by intention. It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded us to tell the dying person to say Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah, and he said, “Anyone whose last words are Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah will enter Paradise.” If this word (Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah) was something which required caution, why should we tell the dying person to say something which, if he dies in the middle of saying it, will lead to an improper death? Rather, if this were the case, he would be told to say “Allaah, Allaah” or “Huwa, Huwa.”

Mentioning the pronoun on its own is further removed from the Sunnah and is a worse kind of bid’ah, which is closer to the misguidance of the Shaytaan. If a person says “Yaa Huwa, yaa Huwaa (O He, O He)” or “Huwa, Huwa (He, He)” and so on, the pronoun does not refer to anything except whatever his heart imagines, and hearts may be guided or misguided.

Some shaykhs use as evidence to support saying “Allaah” (the name on its own) the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say: ‘Allaah.’ Then leave them…” [al-An’aam 6:91]. They think that Allaah commanded His Prophet to say His Name on its own, but this is a mistake according to the consensus of the scholars, because the meaning of the phrase “Say ‘Allaah’” is that it is Allaah Who sent down the Book which was brought by Moosa. This is in response to the question:

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘Who then sent down the Book which Moosa (Moses) brought, a light and a guidance to mankind which you (the Jews) have made into (separate) paper sheets, disclosing (some of it) and concealing (much). And you (believers in Allaah and His Messenger Muhammad) were taught (through the Qur’aan) that which neither you nor your fathers knew.’ Say: ‘Allaah (sent it down).’” [al-An’aam 6:91 – interpretation of the meaning], i.e., Allaah is the One Who revealed the Book which was brought by Moosa. This is a refutation of the view of those who said, “Nothing did Allaah send down to any human being (by Revelation)”

[al-An’aam 6:91 – interpretation of the meaning]. Allaah says: Who then sent down the Book which Moosa brought? Then He says: Say Allaah sent it down, then leave these liars to play in their vain discussions.

What we have said above is further explained by the comments of Seebawayh and other grammarians, who noted that when the Arabs say “Qaala” (or other forms of the verb meaning “to say”), they do not quote verbatim, rather they state what was said, giving a complete meaning. So what follows is a sentence with a complete meaning, or a nominal sentence or a verbal sentence. Hence after saying “qaala” they give a kasrah to the particle “anna” (making it “inna”); “qaala” cannot be followed by a noun standing alone.

Allaah did not command anyone to mention His Name on its own, and it is not prescribed for the Muslims to say His Name on its own. Saying His Name on its own does not enhance faith or explain anything about the religion, according to the consensus of the scholars of Islam; it is not enjoined in any act of worship or in any case where Allaah addresses them.

(Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 10/226-229)

And he (may Allaah have mercy on him) also said:

Repeating the Name of Allaah on its own, such as saying “Allaah, Allaah,” or the pronoun, such as “Huwa, Huwa” is not prescribed in either the Qur’aan or the Sunnah. It is not reported that any of the salaf of this ummah or any of the righteous scholars who are taken as examples did this. It is only spoken by misguided people of the later generations.

Perhaps they are following a shaykh who had no control over himself in this regard, such as al-Shubli who, it was narrated, used to say ‘Allaah, Allaah.’ It was said to him, ‘Why do you not say Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah?’ He said, “I am afraid of dying between the negation [saying La ilaaha (there is no god)] and the affirmation [ill-Allaah (except Allaah)]”!

This is one of the mistakes made by al-Shubli, who may be forgiven for it because of the sincerity of his faith and the strength of his emotions which overwhelmed him. Sometimes he would go crazy and would be taken to the asylum, and he would shave off his beard. There are other instances of this type in his case, which are not to be taken as examples, even if he may be excused or rewarded for them. If a person intends to say Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah, and he dies before completing it, that will not harm him at all, because actions are judged by intentions, and what he intended to do is what will be written down for him.

Some of them go to extremes in this matter, and say that saying the name of Allaah is for the ‘elite’ whilst saying La ilaaha ill-Allaah is for the ‘masses.’ Some of them say that saying Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah is for the mu’mineen (believers), saying ‘Allaah’ is for the ‘aarifeen’ and saying ‘Huwa’ is for the muhaqqiqeen. One of them may restrict himself to saying, when alone or in a gathering, ‘Allaah, Allaah, Allaah’ or ‘Huwa’ or ‘Yaa Huwa’ or even ‘La Huwa illa Huwa (there is no He except He)’!

Some of those who have written about spiritual matters have expressed approval of this, quoting some known figures who, however, were in a state of overwhelming emotion at the time, or quoting opinions, or quoting false reports – for example some of them reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib to say ‘Allaah, Allaah, Allaah.’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said it three times, then he told ‘Ali to say it three times so he said it three times. This hadeeth is fabricated (mawdoo’), according to the consensus of the scholars of hadeeth.

It is narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught people various adhkaar to say, and the best of dhikr is Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah. This is what he urged his paternal uncle Abu Taalib to say when he was dying. He said, “O uncle, say Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah and I will defend you thereby before Allaah.” And he said: “I know of a word which no one says when he is dying but his soul finds rest in it.” And he said, “Anyone whose last words are Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah will enter Paradise.” And he said, “Whoever dies knowing that there is no god except Allaah will enter Paradise.” And he said: “I have been commanded to fight people until they bear witness that there is no god except Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah. If they do that, their blood and wealth will be safe from me, except for what is due from them [e.g., zakaah etc.], and their reckoning is with Allaah.” And there are many similar ahaadeeth.

(Majmoo’ al-Fataawaa, 10/556-558)

Whoever makes the Qur’aan and Sunnah his points of reference concerning his worship will not fail to distinguish right from wrong. We ask Allaah to bring us back to His religion in a gentle manner. And Allaah knows best.

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Forum

awlia (not verified) — Fri, 4 Dec 2009 - 23:04

[quote=Noor][quote=awlia][quote=Noor]the remembrance of Allah is not LIMITED.

Allah isn't limited so how can dhikr be limited?![/quote]

by the orders of allah and teachings of muhammad SAW it is limited.[/quote]

bring forth your proof. [/quote]

The 4 best words for DHIKR
The Prophet ﷺ says:

Samura ibn Jundub reported that the Prophet said: "The dearest phrases to Allah are four: subhan Allah, wa al-hamdu lillah, wa la ilaha illallah, wallahu akbar: "Glorified is Allah, and Praise be to Allah, and There is no God but Allah, and Allah is most Great," There is no harm in beginning them in any order you choose while remembering Allah." (Narrated by Muslim)

The Prophet ﷺ says:

"Whoever glorifies Allah at the end of every Salaat 33 times (subhanallah), and praises Allah 33 times (Al-hamdulillah), and utters the word of Greatness 33 times, (Allahu Akbar) that is ninety nine, then completes it with one hundred, saying: `Laa ilaha illallah wahdahu laa sharika lahuu lahul Mulk wa lahul hamd wa huwa `alaa kulli shay in qadeer, his shortcomings will be forgiven, even if it is as large as the froth of the sea." (Muslim)

Everything in islam has its limitation accept, even loving muhammad SAW has a limit, now that i have shown you my proof show me your proof of dhikr having no limit.

awlia (not verified) — Fri, 4 Dec 2009 - 23:08

[quote=Noor]the remembrance of Allah is not LIMITED.

Allah isn't limited so how can dhikr be limited?![/quote]

the rememberence of allahin not limited, but the ways to remember allah is limited, limited to the ways allah has ordered us to do so, and the ways muhammad sSAW teached us to do so.

Such as in islam we pray 5 times a day, now can you change that in to 6 times a day? no you cant as allah has given us the 5 daily prayers which we have to do which canot be increased or decreased.

Noor — Fri, 4 Dec 2009 - 23:55

[quote=awlia][quote=Noor]the remembrance of Allah is not LIMITED.

Allah isn't limited so how can dhikr be limited?![/quote]

the rememberence of allahin not limited, but the ways to remember allah is limited, limited to the ways allah has ordered us to do so, and the ways muhammad sSAW teached us to do so.[/quote]

now you are saying it isn't limited, jeez, make up your mind!

from the quran:

remember Allah standing, sitting and lying on your sides - surah nisa, v103

remember Allah with much remembrance - surah ahzab, v41

from the above two verses what do you deduce?

if Allah says remember me standing, sitting and lying on your sides, doesn't that imply that you can remember Allah by any means?

Noor — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 00:01

[quote=awlia]even loving muhammad SAW has a limit[/quote]

WHAT?!!!!!

are you saying that we can love the prophet ﷺ enough?! what is enough? if Allah az wa jal praises the prophet (saw), then how can our praise, love ever be enough or even reach a maximum?

I am not praising Muhammad ﷺ by my own mouth because there is no praise beyond the praise of Allah (swt) and there are no words beyond the words of Allah (swt) in praise of the Prophet ﷺ and no human being knows the rank of the Prophet ﷺ and the deep respect he deserves better than Allah (swt) - Hassan bin Thabit (ra)

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 11:58

[quote=Noor][quote=awlia]even loving muhammad SAW has a limit[/quote]

WHAT?!!!!!

are you saying that we can love the prophet ﷺ enough?! what is enough? if Allah az wa jal praises the prophet (saw), then how can our praise, love ever be enough or even reach a maximum?

I am not praising Muhammad ﷺ by my own mouth because there is no praise beyond the praise of Allah (swt) and there are no words beyond the words of Allah (swt) in praise of the Prophet ﷺ and no human being knows the rank of the Prophet ﷺ and the deep respect he deserves better than Allah (swt) - Hassan bin Thabit (ra)[/quote]

Seriously you have to go back to the basics:

what is the order of love of islam,

allah
muhammad SAW
our parents

can you love your parents equally to muhammad SAW? no you cant why because their status is not as high as muhammad SAWand their not worthy to be loved in thatleve.

Muhammad SAW can he be loved in the same level as allah? no he cant as only allah is worthy to be loved in that level, so for muhammad SAW if you start saying his worth his above a prophet then you have commited shirk, as muhammad SAW is a prophet this is the highest level allah has given him and if you view him above that then you have broken the rule, as allah has already given him his highest rank and if you take it above that then your disobeying allah as you have just disagreed with what allah has laready given.

So even loving muhammad SAW has a limit, as if it goes above the limit which allah has given, if youstart viewing muhammad SAW more then what he is then you are first disagreeing with allah, and you are making your own rule which is going against allah.

So you have to love muhammad SAW to the limit allah has given, which is love himas he is our prophet, the best of creation, the guidance to us, but if you take it above that then your lvoe for him has gone to a haram level.

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 12:29

[quote=Noor][quote=awlia]Seriously you have to go back to the basics[/quote]

seriously you need to stop copying and pasting.
[/quote]

if i wanted to right that myself i could, but why other when yolu can use the easier method.

Noor — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 12:32

[quote=awlia][quote=Noor][quote=awlia]Seriously you have to go back to the basics[/quote]

seriously you need to stop copying and pasting.
[/quote]

if i wanted to right that myself i could, but why other when yolu can use the easier method.[/quote]

because people may start reading your posts.

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 12:32

[quote=You]Back to topic - original post says there is nothing wrong with repeating the name of Allah (swt).

(I assume awlia is aware that God changed the qibla from bayt al maqdis to the Ka'bah because the Prophet ﷺ wanted it so?)[/quote]

theri is nothing wrong with dhikr as long as you do it the correct way, again like saying subhanalla 33 times, but doing in that method is haram (huwa huwa)

And the direction of qibla changed becasue allah revealed it to muhammad SAW to change his direction towards kabah, trying to put words in my mouth again are you. Too bad its not working

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 12:32

[quote=You]Back to topic - original post says there is nothing wrong with repeating the name of Allah (swt).

(I assume awlia is aware that God changed the qibla from bayt al maqdis to the Ka'bah because the Prophet ﷺ wanted it so?)[/quote]

theri is nothing wrong with dhikr as long as you do it the correct way, again like saying subhanalla 33 times, but doing in that method is haram (huwa huwa)

And the direction of qibla changed becasue allah revealed it to muhammad SAW to change his direction towards kabah, trying to put words in my mouth again are you. Too bad its not working

You — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 12:47

[quote=awlia]theri is nothing wrong with dhikr as long as you do it the correct way, again like saying subhanalla 33 times, but doing in that method is haram (huwa huwa)[/quote]

Your original post says there is npothing wrong with it, hence it cannot be haraam. It may not have any benefit, but that is a different matter.

Haraam does have harm in it.

[quote=awlia]And the direction of qibla changed becasue allah revealed it to muhammad SAW to change his direction towards kabah, trying to put words in my mouth again are you. Too bad its not working[/quote]

From the qur'an: [qs:2:144]. read it and weep.

Or if you prefer Yusuf Ali's translation:

We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.

(I also assume you are aware that Yusuf Ali was most likely a Shia?)

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 13:13

[quote=You][quote=awlia]theri is nothing wrong with dhikr as long as you do it the correct way, again like saying subhanalla 33 times, but doing in that method is haram (huwa huwa)[/quote]

Your original post says there is npothing wrong with it, hence it cannot be haraam. It may not have any benefit, but that is a different matter.

Haraam does have harm in it.

[quote=awlia]And the direction of qibla changed becasue allah revealed it to muhammad SAW to change his direction towards kabah, trying to put words in my mouth again are you. Too bad its not working[/quote]

From the qur'an: [qs:2:144]. read it and weep.

Or if you prefer Yusuf Ali's translation:

We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.

(I also assume you are aware that Yusuf Ali was most likely a Shia?)
[/quote]

you got nothing left in you have you making me repeat the same thing over and over again:

dhikr isnt haram, saying HUA HUWA is haram, as this is a form of dhikr that has been innovated, the method of dhikr that is halal is the saying of subhanallah alhamdulilla and allahu akbar 33 times, that is dhikr, i said dhikr is allowed, but the dhikr of huwa huwa is haram, do i need ot break it down more?

as for qibla

Prophet Mohammed ﷺ prayed facing Jerusalem for sixteen or seventeen months after arriving in Medina. But after received this hurtful news Prophet Mohammed ﷺ used to come out at night and look into the sky awaiting the revelation from Allah (SWT) about this matter. The following verse was revealed at this time:

Indeed We see the turning of your [Prophet Mohammed (saw)] face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a Qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book (i.e. Jews and the Christians) most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do. Glorious Qur'an (2:144)]

And yusuf ali was a sunni, allah ordered muhammad SAW to change the direction to kabah.

You — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 13:13

to repeat myself:

[quote=You][quote=awlia]
It has no implications to do with eemaan (faith) or kufr (disbelief), commands or prohibitions. This was not mentioned by anyone from the Salaf (early generations) of this ummah, and it was not prescribed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).[/quote]

Actually, this is the heart of the matter. If you are saying that there is no harm (or benefit) to the action, why spend all this time to fight against it?

You are not calling the saying of Allah's name to be harmful, nor are you saying that it is a sin. So why debate the matter at all?[/quote]

your own post says that it has no implications, yet you keep arguing. I am quoting what you cut and pasted. address it.

You — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 13:16

[quote=awlia]And yusuf ali was a sunni[/quote]

Got any links for this? all I have read suggests the opposite, but it was not conclusive, hence the "probably" in my post.

[quote=awlia]allah ordered muhammad SAW to change the direction to kabah. [/quote]

Yes he did, in order the please the Prophet (saw), as mentioned in the verse.

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 13:18

[quote=You][quote=awlia]And yusuf ali was a sunni[/quote]

Got any links for this? all I have read suggests the opposite, but it was not conclusive, hence the "probably" in my post.

[quote=awlia]allah ordered muhammad SAW to change the direction to kabah. [/quote]

Yes he did, in order the please the Prophet (saw), as mentioned in the verse.
[/quote]

check out his biography, get some books on him,find them somewhere,and read.

Dawud — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 18:08

Salaam Awliya,

Is it OK for me to remember the name of my Lord and mention the word "Allah"?

Sorry, if you're getting stressed out over here, when people disagree they tend to get petty and attack each other. Please let me know if you feel that I am attacking you, as that would not be cool.

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 21:30

[quote=Dawud]Salaam Awliya,

Is it OK for me to remember the name of my Lord and mention the word "Allah"?

Sorry, if you're getting stressed out over here, when people disagree they tend to get petty and attack each other. Please let me know if you feel that I am attacking you, as that would not be cool.[/quote]

even if i fealt you were attacking that would be no problem infact it would be a good challenge for me.
Anyway theirs nothing wrong with saying allah, when remembering allah or at difficult times we usually say ya allah, but if you want to turn that into a dhikr then its wrong, as their is no quran or sunnah ruling on just saying allah to perform dhikr, the ones that have been ordered to use are subhanallah, alhamdulillah allahuakbar, and many others, think about it you sitting down and just chanting allah allah allah, allah what? what about allah, so obviously in order to do dhikr you need to say something that means something, like subhanallah, glory to allah, allahukabar, allah is the greatest, like this you are praising allah and saying something of value to your rab

You — Sun, 6 Dec 2009 - 08:02

1. Your own post says that there is no harm in it - you keep ignoring that. Quoting from before:

[quote=You][quote=awlia]
It has no implications to do with eemaan (faith) or kufr (disbelief), commands or prohibitions. This was not mentioned by anyone from the Salaf (early generations) of this ummah, and it was not prescribed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).[/quote]

Actually, this is the heart of the matter. If you are saying that there is no harm (or benefit) to the action, why spend all this time to fight against it?

You are not calling the saying of Allah's name to be harmful, nor are you saying that it is a sin. So why debate the matter at all?[/quote]

2. The ahadith you quote have the words "best of" and not the word "only" which to me atleast implies that the well... as it says... best dhikr's are mentioned. not the only allowed ones.

3. If we go by what you say, someone not aware of Arabic cannot remember at all!

4. Who does dhikr exclusively of "Hu"/"Huwa" or just "Allah" ? I thought most went through that verse of the qur'an that mentions many names/attributes of God.

Dawud — Sun, 6 Dec 2009 - 17:28

[quote=awlia][quote=Dawud]Salaam Awliya,

Is it OK for me to remember the name of my Lord and mention the word "Allah"?[/quote]

Anyway theirs nothing wrong with saying allah, when remembering allah or at difficult times we usually say ya Allah,[/quote]
I'm glad we can agree on that. Everything else is in the small details 🙂

[quote]but if you want to turn that into a dhikr then its wrong, as their is no quran or sunnah ruling on just saying allah to perform dhikr, the ones that have been ordered to use are subhanallah, alhamdulillah allahuakbar, and many others, think about it you sitting down and just chanting allah allah allah, allah what? what about allah, so obviously in order to do dhikr you need to say something that means something, like subhanallah, glory to allah, allahukabar, allah is the greatest, like this you are praising allah and saying something of value to your rab[/quote]
That makes sense, we should definitely start our zhikr with some information about Allah, just like the Salah starts with Allahu Akbar. But if the zhikr starts to fill your heart and every intake of breath becomes an "Al Hamd" do you think it might be alright if your spoken exhalation was purely "Lillahi"?

awlia (not verified) — Mon, 7 Dec 2009 - 10:26

[quote=Dawud][quote=awlia][quote=Dawud]Salaam Awliya,

Is it OK for me to remember the name of my Lord and mention the word "Allah"?[/quote]

Anyway theirs nothing wrong with saying allah, when remembering allah or at difficult times we usually say ya Allah,[/quote]
I'm glad we can agree on that. Everything else is in the small details 🙂

[quote]but if you want to turn that into a dhikr then its wrong, as their is no quran or sunnah ruling on just saying allah to perform dhikr, the ones that have been ordered to use are subhanallah, alhamdulillah allahuakbar, and many others, think about it you sitting down and just chanting allah allah allah, allah what? what about allah, so obviously in order to do dhikr you need to say something that means something, like subhanallah, glory to allah, allahukabar, allah is the greatest, like this you are praising allah and saying something of value to your rab[/quote]
That makes sense, we should definitely start our zhikr with some information about Allah, just like the Salah starts with Allahu Akbar. But if the zhikr starts to fill your heart and every intake of breath becomes an "Al Hamd" do you think it might be alright if your spoken exhalation was purely "Lillahi"?
[/quote]

lillahi simply means god, so cant use that alone for dhikr, wont make sense.

awlia (not verified) — Mon, 7 Dec 2009 - 10:37

[quote=You]1. Your own post says that there is no harm in it - you keep ignoring that. Quoting from before:

[quote=You][quote=awlia]
It has no implications to do with eemaan (faith) or kufr (disbelief), commands or prohibitions. This was not mentioned by anyone from the Salaf (early generations) of this ummah, and it was not prescribed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).[/quote]

Actually, this is the heart of the matter. If you are saying that there is no harm (or benefit) to the action, why spend all this time to fight against it?

You are not calling the saying of Allah's name to be harmful, nor are you saying that it is a sin. So why debate the matter at all?[/quote]

2. The ahadith you quote have the words "best of" and not the word "only" which to me atleast implies that the well... as it says... best dhikr's are mentioned. not the only allowed ones.

3. If we go by what you say, someone not aware of Arabic cannot remember at all!

4. Who does dhikr exclusively of "Hu"/"Huwa" or just "Allah" ? I thought most went through that verse of the qur'an that mentions many names/attributes of God.[/quote]

what the scholar meant by that was this huwa huwa thing, it was so unknown to the prophet SAW and his sahabas that their is not a single hadith whioch states any of the thing emtniopned above about it, and nor by the salafs either, not that its ok or anyhting.

As for dhikr to use, all the dhikr allowed to use for dhikr have been mentioned in hadiths, and were not allowed to just make new ones out of nowhere, those are the ones ordered to be used, and subhnallah alhamdulillah and allahuakbar, arent the only ones that are allowed to use, their are pelanty of different types of praises that can be used in dhikr, pleanty, if you search for them you can find them, but you cant innovate something out of nowhere, like the huwa huwa.

AS for myself im still learning/started learning to speak arabic, all these years i have memorised many different duas, some which i dont know the meaning of, i dont have any problems remembering them or what they should be used of.

As for metnioning dhikr using quran, well of course many duas are from quran, the fanmous dua rabbana athina fid-duniya and the rest, that dua is from the quran, obviously what can be a better source then the quran, and the names and artubutes of allah are used in dhikr, if they are im sure they are used in a sentence that has some meaning in it, and some praise inshallah.

awlia (not verified) — Mon, 7 Dec 2009 - 10:37

[quote=You]1. Your own post says that there is no harm in it - you keep ignoring that. Quoting from before:

[quote=You][quote=awlia]
It has no implications to do with eemaan (faith) or kufr (disbelief), commands or prohibitions. This was not mentioned by anyone from the Salaf (early generations) of this ummah, and it was not prescribed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).[/quote]

Actually, this is the heart of the matter. If you are saying that there is no harm (or benefit) to the action, why spend all this time to fight against it?

You are not calling the saying of Allah's name to be harmful, nor are you saying that it is a sin. So why debate the matter at all?[/quote]

2. The ahadith you quote have the words "best of" and not the word "only" which to me atleast implies that the well... as it says... best dhikr's are mentioned. not the only allowed ones.

3. If we go by what you say, someone not aware of Arabic cannot remember at all!

4. Who does dhikr exclusively of "Hu"/"Huwa" or just "Allah" ? I thought most went through that verse of the qur'an that mentions many names/attributes of God.[/quote]

what the scholar meant by that was this huwa huwa thing, it was so unknown to the prophet SAW and his sahabas that their is not a single hadith whioch states any of the thing emtniopned above about it, and nor by the salafs either, not that its ok or anyhting.

As for dhikr to use, all the dhikr allowed to use for dhikr have been mentioned in hadiths, and were not allowed to just make new ones out of nowhere, those are the ones ordered to be used, and subhnallah alhamdulillah and allahuakbar, arent the only ones that are allowed to use, their are pelanty of different types of praises that can be used in dhikr, pleanty, if you search for them you can find them, but you cant innovate something out of nowhere, like the huwa huwa.

AS for myself im still learning/started learning to speak arabic, all these years i have memorised many different duas, some which i dont know the meaning of, i dont have any problems remembering them or what they should be used of.

As for metnioning dhikr using quran, well of course many duas are from quran, the fanmous dua rabbana athina fid-duniya and the rest, that dua is from the quran, obviously what can be a better source then the quran, and the names and artubutes of allah are used in dhikr, if they are im sure they are used in a sentence that has some meaning in it, and some praise inshallah.

awlia (not verified) — Mon, 7 Dec 2009 - 10:37

[quote=You]1. Your own post says that there is no harm in it - you keep ignoring that. Quoting from before:

[quote=You][quote=awlia]
It has no implications to do with eemaan (faith) or kufr (disbelief), commands or prohibitions. This was not mentioned by anyone from the Salaf (early generations) of this ummah, and it was not prescribed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).[/quote]

Actually, this is the heart of the matter. If you are saying that there is no harm (or benefit) to the action, why spend all this time to fight against it?

You are not calling the saying of Allah's name to be harmful, nor are you saying that it is a sin. So why debate the matter at all?[/quote]

2. The ahadith you quote have the words "best of" and not the word "only" which to me atleast implies that the well... as it says... best dhikr's are mentioned. not the only allowed ones.

3. If we go by what you say, someone not aware of Arabic cannot remember at all!

4. Who does dhikr exclusively of "Hu"/"Huwa" or just "Allah" ? I thought most went through that verse of the qur'an that mentions many names/attributes of God.[/quote]

what the scholar meant by that was this huwa huwa thing, it was so unknown to the prophet SAW and his sahabas that their is not a single hadith whioch states any of the thing emtniopned above about it, and nor by the salafs either, not that its ok or anyhting.

As for dhikr to use, all the dhikr allowed to use for dhikr have been mentioned in hadiths, and were not allowed to just make new ones out of nowhere, those are the ones ordered to be used, and subhnallah alhamdulillah and allahuakbar, arent the only ones that are allowed to use, their are pelanty of different types of praises that can be used in dhikr, pleanty, if you search for them you can find them, but you cant innovate something out of nowhere, like the huwa huwa.

AS for myself im still learning/started learning to speak arabic, all these years i have memorised many different duas, some which i dont know the meaning of, i dont have any problems remembering them or what they should be used of.

As for metnioning dhikr using quran, well of course many duas are from quran, the fanmous dua rabbana athina fid-duniya and the rest, that dua is from the quran, obviously what can be a better source then the quran, and the names and artubutes of allah are used in dhikr, if they are im sure they are used in a sentence that has some meaning in it, and some praise inshallah.