"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by Exception on 5 June, 2010 - 00:30 #63
much respect for the people of Ireland on board the ship.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
Submitted by Abdullah (not verified) on 5 June, 2010 - 18:27 #65
There is a HT demo tomorrow focusing against the Egyptians to help the Muslims of Palestine. We should all support them.
1. The Israeli blockade of Gaza is supported by the Egyptian blockade of the Rafah crossing increasing the suffering of the Palestinians
2. Turkey is a member of NATO and an attack on a sovereign member vessel requires a NATO response but do we see it?
3. The US can not even condemn the Israeli terrorism yet alone take affirmative action to stop her, the UN is toothless and the OIC is an impotent talking shop
4. Oh Muslims of Turkey, how can you continue to turn towards the Jews and Christians as friends and allies when you see the way they treat you, your brothers and sisters in Palestine and the sanctities of your Deen?
5. Only an Islamic leadership of a restored Khilafah will release the new Uthmani army to liberate Palestine from ocupying Zionists. So move your government and army to rid you of the surrender brought by secular nationalism and move towards the implementation of Islam by the restoration of the Khilafah, that will unify the Ummah of Muhammed (saw)and raise the banner of Islam throughout the world
* 2:30pm - Gather at Paddington Green (Edgware Road tube)
* March down Edgware Road
* Conclude with talks at Egyptian Embassy
I have a question - why are they doing their bit separately?
Surely if they are harking about unity and umsah, they need to coordinate with other Muslims instead of doing their own thing?
I think it would be good for people to attend, but at the same time, this is a clear case of hypocrisy within that organisation where they will not participate - but will actively criticise - unless the event is their own
—
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 9 June, 2010 - 00:10 #67
Instead of making accusations of hypocrisy, why don't you write and ask them? I'm sure they would explain why they are doing what they are doing.
I did ask in the other thread where a member posted about the demo on sunday. I asked why they were not doing it the same time as everyone else, pretty much the same question. but no response.
and this is not a new assertion. It is a longstanding observance by others.
—
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 9 June, 2010 - 00:19 #69
You wrote:
If there was unity of the states, that can be a very good thing, but at the same time actual government would still need to be decentralised and local to be effective and not abuse one region for the benefit of another.
The Islamic Caliphate system of government allows for this through the constructs of provinces and Waali's/Aamils. Where statewide issues are concerned (Eg defence, security etc) central government deals with it - where regional issues are concerned (Eg business development, provision of welfare/amenities etc) provincial waali's deal with it.
You wrote:
This does not require an empire to do the bidding of everyone, but can be done a'la a union of states to present a united face when needed, but be more local when that is needed.
Without the Caliphate that has unified state wide leadership, how do you force states to work together on issues that need collective responses?
How do you ensure what Umar (ra) did during a famine, divert resources from one province to another?
How do you force states to assist you when you are attacked (like Iraq/Afghanistan/Palestine/Pak etc)?
How do you force states to help you when you are under sanctions (like Iran/Pak etc)?
How do you force states to invest surplus wealth/resource (Gulf states!) in states not so fortunate (Bangladesh/Afghanistan/Sudan/Somalia/Egypt etc)?
etc etc etc
Without the Caliphate, you have a problem you cannot solve - it's down to the whims and desires of each state whether they help or not - the Caliphate allows the Caliph to order and force each province to assist in terms of wealth, resource, goods, people, military and knowledge!
You can't beat Allah's system - man made systems are flawed so will always have big gaping holes in their pseudo-solutions!
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 9 June, 2010 - 00:25 #70
You wrote:
I did ask in the other thread where a member posted about the demo on sunday. I asked why they were not doing it the same time as everyone else, pretty much the same question. but no response.
and this is not a new assertion. It is a longstanding observance by others.
You should write to their email address on their website - that's the usual mechanism rather than going on about it on a site they may not ever visit (even the posting does not say a member of HT did it - maybe, maybe not!).
If I want to criticise The Revival, I don't go about doing it elsewhere - I come here to do it so you can respond and present your view. After than I can tell others what I said, what you replied, why I disagree etc but even then I wouldn't accuse you of hypocrisy as I don't know what's in your hearts.
Otherwise there is a danger it is slander...
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 9 June, 2010 - 01:18 #71
Great Article articulating the politics going on - shows how those who think the current Arab states can "cooperate" or will "cooperate" are living in Eutopia...
Last week’s events off the coast of Israel continue to resonate. Turkish-Israeli relations have not quite collapsed since then but are at their lowest level since Israel’s founding. U.S.-Israeli tensions have emerged, and European hostility toward Israel continues to intensify. The question has now become whether substantial consequences will follow from the incident. Put differently, the question is whether and how it will be exploited beyond the arena of public opinion.
The most significant threat to Israel would, of course, be military. International criticism is not without significance, but nations do not change direction absent direct threats to their interests. But powers outside the region are unlikely to exert military power against Israel, and even significant economic or political sanctions are unlikely to happen. Apart from the desire of outside powers to limit their involvement, this is rooted in the fact that significant actions are unlikely from inside the region either.
(unoficial policy type thing here to quote from an article and then link to it so that the original place for the article can be "respected".)
—
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 9 June, 2010 - 13:33 #73
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
btw, that is not even a new argument. It is an oberservation that is age old.
I am sure they will justify their disunity with other Muslims through means such as "they are following the kuffaar system, we follow only islam. We don't need to mend our ways, they need to."
—
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 13 June, 2010 - 01:24 #77
Another problem that needs Muslim militaries to fix! Aid will do little to solve it!
--------------
Everybody knows Israel does not possess any oil and gas. Right? Right. As the legendary former Prime Minister of Israel Golda Meir stated “Let me tell you something that we Israelis have against Moses. He took us 40 years through the desert in order to bring us to the one spot in the Middle East that has no oil! Golda Meir ”
The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and the Israeli government are going to extreme lengths to prevent these Freedom Flotillas from getting directly to the Gaza shore. Why? Are the Israelis trying to hide something?
The political leaders in Gaza are using unyielding military discipline and truly have nothing left to lose; or do they?
As a result of this huge contrast, the common people of Gaza die like flies before a rigid, unflinching onslaught of US supplied F16s, bunker buster missiles, GBU-39 smart bombs, Israeli main battle tanks and small arms fire.
Why the slaughter of ready and willing to die, dirt poor Palestinians?
It appears the Freedom Flotilla sailing to Gaza would go through a thicket of off shore oil and gas rigs and wells. The wells are sucking an estimated minimum of US$6 Billion Dollars of Palestinian off shore Natural Gas through rigs set up for slant drilling.
The drilling consultant on the hidden project is the former Noble Drilling Company of Ardmore, Oklahoma, USA, experts in “oil field management.” They are also allegedly experts in illegal slant drilling techniques Noble pioneered in the early Oklahoma oil fields back in the day.
Slant drilling is the best way to steal your neighbors’ oil and gas.
So much so that the formerly oil and gas poor Israel of Prime Minister Golda Meir is now floating the idea of Natural Gas exports to the European Union (EU) of presumably Palestinian Natural Gas.
Future Freedom Flotillas are said to specifically have escorts from the Turkish Navy. The Turkish Air Force version of the American F-16 Fighting Falcons were not mentioned. The Turkish Navy protection is symbolic and problematic without the Turkish F-16s. Will the Turkish government commit their 200 plus F-16s?
Small world, eh? Greed and force of arms count. Always have. Always will.
Submitted by Anonymous1 (not verified) on 13 June, 2010 - 01:28 #78
And another problem - the treacherous Saudis allowing Israelis to go and bomb Iran - maybe time for Muslim militaries to kick them out? Hmmmmmm....
Saudi Arabia has conducted tests to stand down its air defences to enable Israeli jets to make a bombing raid on Iran’s nuclear facilities, The Times can reveal. In the week that the UN Security Council imposed a new round of sanctions on Tehran, defence sources in the Gulf say that Riyadh has agreed to allow Israel to use a narrow corridor of its airspace in the north of the country to shorten the distance for a bombing run on Iran.
To ensure the Israeli bombers pass unmolested, Riyadh has carried out tests to make certain its own jets are not scrambled and missile defence systems not activated. Once the Israelis are through, the kingdom’s air defences will return to full alert.
“The Saudis have given their permission for the Israelis to pass over and they will look the other way,” said a US defence source in the area. “They have already done tests to make sure their own jets aren’t scrambled and no one gets shot down. This has all been done with the agreement of the [US] State Department.”
Sources in Saudi Arabia say it is common knowledge within defence circles in the kingdom that an arrangement is in place if Israel decides to launch the raid. Despite the tension between the two governments, they share a mutual loathing of the regime in Tehran and a common fear of Iran’s nuclear ambitions. “We all know this. We will let them [the Israelis] through and see nothing,” said one.
The four main targets for any raid on Iran would be the uranium enrichment facilities at Natanz and Qom, the gas storage development at Isfahan and the heavy-water reactor at Arak. Secondary targets include the lightwater reactor at Bushehr, which could produce weapons-grade plutonium when complete....
Rachel Corrie. set to reach gaza tomorow morning
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhY2LJoreRU]
I doubt it will get there... but we will see.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
much respect for the people of Ireland on board the ship.
Yvonne Ridley's take on the matter:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspa...
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
There is a HT demo tomorrow focusing against the Egyptians to help the Muslims of Palestine. We should all support them.
1. The Israeli blockade of Gaza is supported by the Egyptian blockade of the Rafah crossing increasing the suffering of the Palestinians
2. Turkey is a member of NATO and an attack on a sovereign member vessel requires a NATO response but do we see it?
3. The US can not even condemn the Israeli terrorism yet alone take affirmative action to stop her, the UN is toothless and the OIC is an impotent talking shop
4. Oh Muslims of Turkey, how can you continue to turn towards the Jews and Christians as friends and allies when you see the way they treat you, your brothers and sisters in Palestine and the sanctities of your Deen?
5. Only an Islamic leadership of a restored Khilafah will release the new Uthmani army to liberate Palestine from ocupying Zionists. So move your government and army to rid you of the surrender brought by secular nationalism and move towards the implementation of Islam by the restoration of the Khilafah, that will unify the Ummah of Muhammed (saw)and raise the banner of Islam throughout the world
* 2:30pm - Gather at Paddington Green
(Edgware Road tube)
* March down Edgware Road
* Conclude with talks at Egyptian Embassy
You can watch live on the site:
http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/index.php
I have a question - why are they doing their bit separately?
Surely if they are harking about unity and umsah, they need to coordinate with other Muslims instead of doing their own thing?
I think it would be good for people to attend, but at the same time, this is a clear case of hypocrisy within that organisation where they will not participate - but will actively criticise - unless the event is their own
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Instead of making accusations of hypocrisy, why don't you write and ask them? I'm sure they would explain why they are doing what they are doing.
I did ask in the other thread where a member posted about the demo on sunday. I asked why they were not doing it the same time as everyone else, pretty much the same question. but no response.
and this is not a new assertion. It is a longstanding observance by others.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The Islamic Caliphate system of government allows for this through the constructs of provinces and Waali's/Aamils. Where statewide issues are concerned (Eg defence, security etc) central government deals with it - where regional issues are concerned (Eg business development, provision of welfare/amenities etc) provincial waali's deal with it.
Without the Caliphate that has unified state wide leadership, how do you force states to work together on issues that need collective responses?
How do you ensure what Umar (ra) did during a famine, divert resources from one province to another?
How do you force states to assist you when you are attacked (like Iraq/Afghanistan/Palestine/Pak etc)?
How do you force states to help you when you are under sanctions (like Iran/Pak etc)?
How do you force states to invest surplus wealth/resource (Gulf states!) in states not so fortunate (Bangladesh/Afghanistan/Sudan/Somalia/Egypt etc)?
etc etc etc
Without the Caliphate, you have a problem you cannot solve - it's down to the whims and desires of each state whether they help or not - the Caliphate allows the Caliph to order and force each province to assist in terms of wealth, resource, goods, people, military and knowledge!
You can't beat Allah's system - man made systems are flawed so will always have big gaping holes in their pseudo-solutions!
You should write to their email address on their website - that's the usual mechanism rather than going on about it on a site they may not ever visit (even the posting does not say a member of HT did it - maybe, maybe not!).
If I want to criticise The Revival, I don't go about doing it elsewhere - I come here to do it so you can respond and present your view. After than I can tell others what I said, what you replied, why I disagree etc but even then I wouldn't accuse you of hypocrisy as I don't know what's in your hearts.
Otherwise there is a danger it is slander...
Great Article articulating the politics going on - shows how those who think the current Arab states can "cooperate" or will "cooperate" are living in Eutopia...
Read more @ STRATFOR
Do you have a link for that?
(unoficial policy type thing here to quote from an article and then link to it so that the original place for the article can be "respected".)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Sure, it's here:
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100607_limits_public_opinion_arabs_isra...
thanks - fixed that post.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
And you said your not HT? or Pro-HT? hmm...somebodies in denial!
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
btw, that is not even a new argument. It is an oberservation that is age old.
I am sure they will justify their disunity with other Muslims through means such as "they are following the kuffaar system, we follow only islam. We don't need to mend our ways, they need to."
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Another problem that needs Muslim militaries to fix! Aid will do little to solve it!
--------------
Everybody knows Israel does not possess any oil and gas. Right? Right. As the legendary former Prime Minister of Israel Golda Meir stated “Let me tell you something that we Israelis have against Moses. He took us 40 years through the desert in order to bring us to the one spot in the Middle East that has no oil! Golda Meir ”
The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and the Israeli government are going to extreme lengths to prevent these Freedom Flotillas from getting directly to the Gaza shore. Why? Are the Israelis trying to hide something?
The political leaders in Gaza are using unyielding military discipline and truly have nothing left to lose; or do they?
As a result of this huge contrast, the common people of Gaza die like flies before a rigid, unflinching onslaught of US supplied F16s, bunker buster missiles, GBU-39 smart bombs, Israeli main battle tanks and small arms fire.
Why the slaughter of ready and willing to die, dirt poor Palestinians?
It appears the Freedom Flotilla sailing to Gaza would go through a thicket of off shore oil and gas rigs and wells. The wells are sucking an estimated minimum of US$6 Billion Dollars of Palestinian off shore Natural Gas through rigs set up for slant drilling.
The drilling consultant on the hidden project is the former Noble Drilling Company of Ardmore, Oklahoma, USA, experts in “oil field management.” They are also allegedly experts in illegal slant drilling techniques Noble pioneered in the early Oklahoma oil fields back in the day.
Slant drilling is the best way to steal your neighbors’ oil and gas.
So much so that the formerly oil and gas poor Israel of Prime Minister Golda Meir is now floating the idea of Natural Gas exports to the European Union (EU) of presumably Palestinian Natural Gas.
Future Freedom Flotillas are said to specifically have escorts from the Turkish Navy. The Turkish Air Force version of the American F-16 Fighting Falcons were not mentioned. The Turkish Navy protection is symbolic and problematic without the Turkish F-16s. Will the Turkish government commit their 200 plus F-16s?
Small world, eh? Greed and force of arms count. Always have. Always will.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/06/05/poor-gaza-wealthy-in-natural-gas/
And another problem - the treacherous Saudis allowing Israelis to go and bomb Iran - maybe time for Muslim militaries to kick them out? Hmmmmmm....
Saudi Arabia has conducted tests to stand down its air defences to enable Israeli jets to make a bombing raid on Iran’s nuclear facilities, The Times can reveal. In the week that the UN Security Council imposed a new round of sanctions on Tehran, defence sources in the Gulf say that Riyadh has agreed to allow Israel to use a narrow corridor of its airspace in the north of the country to shorten the distance for a bombing run on Iran.
To ensure the Israeli bombers pass unmolested, Riyadh has carried out tests to make certain its own jets are not scrambled and missile defence systems not activated. Once the Israelis are through, the kingdom’s air defences will return to full alert.
“The Saudis have given their permission for the Israelis to pass over and they will look the other way,” said a US defence source in the area. “They have already done tests to make sure their own jets aren’t scrambled and no one gets shot down. This has all been done with the agreement of the [US] State Department.”
Sources in Saudi Arabia say it is common knowledge within defence circles in the kingdom that an arrangement is in place if Israel decides to launch the raid. Despite the tension between the two governments, they share a mutual loathing of the regime in Tehran and a common fear of Iran’s nuclear ambitions. “We all know this. We will let them [the Israelis] through and see nothing,” said one.
The four main targets for any raid on Iran would be the uranium enrichment facilities at Natanz and Qom, the gas storage development at Isfahan and the heavy-water reactor at Arak. Secondary targets include the lightwater reactor at Bushehr, which could produce weapons-grade plutonium when complete....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7148555.ece
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