Standing against a tide of hatred

Standing against a tide of hatred

It is not Israel's action, but the vitriolic reaction to it that has been disproportionate. There's only one explanation: antisemitism

Is it good for the Jews?

If you were so inclined, you could ask that question about the Madoff mess, the Gaza offensive, the latest screed from Alan Dershowitz – or about a new recipe for angel-food cake. Which is to say, if you are looking for antisemitism, you can find it anywhere, even in a dessert cookbook. But if even paranoids have enemies, I think it's fair to say that these are tough times for Jews.

While I would prefer to equate the fate of the Palestinians with that of Israel – meaning, I'd like to believe we're all on the same side – I think that might be a difficult political fiction to maintain at the moment. And while I'd like to artificially separate anti-Zionism from antisemitism, like most American Jews, I'm not willing to make that false distinction: when there is more than one Jewish state, the world's hatred of Israel might become no different from its exasperation with any other country, but since Israel is the only homeland, and really it is nothing more than six million Jews living together in an area the size of New Jersey, I can't pretend that the problem with Israel is that it's a poorly located country that happens to be at odds with its neighbours and only coincidentally happens to be Jewish. The trouble with Israel is the trouble with Jews.

This situation makes me profoundly uncomfortable. As the kind of left-leaning liberal who tends to agree with the positions taken by The Nation in most instances, I hate having to differ so completely on the Israel issue with many I otherwise would align with. As it is my good fortune to be American, I live in the only country that as a matter of policy is pro-Israel regardless of party allegiance; Democrats and Republicans equally unite behind the blue-and-white. But to communicate with anyone I think of as rightminded (and left-leaning) in any other part of the world is to experience the purest antisemitism since the Nazi era. In fact, in Europe right now, it is de rigueur to liken the current regime in Israel with the Nazi party, and to view the experience of the Palestinians as a form of ethnic cleansing. Hamas and Hezbollah are thought by the French and British to be social welfare organisations, and Israel is viewed as a terrorist state. Here, we honor the linguistic discoveries of Noam Chomsky and otherwise experience him as a quaintly brilliant crank, but in the bookstores in London there are entire sections devoted to his political thought – and he is read as if the distinctions between Leninist and Trotskyite philosophy had genuine consequence in today's world...

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Wats with the new threads per headline rule now?

Didnt we used to have a 'News' thread were we just posted watever.

seems to be littering the forums.

unneccessarily (dont think thats how u spell it) :doubt:

When life offers you a dream so far beyond any of your expectations, it is not reasonable to grieve when it comes to an end.

Salaam

Keep 'em coming You.

This a thought-provoking quote from the article:

I watch the pro-Palestinian rallies that have been staged in capitals across the globe, and I try to tell myself that these people are not against me, or even Israel; that they just are dismayed with all the violence. I tell myself, as Jean Renoir pointed out with such pellucid irony in The Rules of the Game, that everybody has their reasons. But here is what I finally know: with all the troubles in the world, with the terrible things that the Chinese do in Tibet, and do to their own citizens; with the horrors of genocide committed in Darfur by Sudanese Muslims; with all the bad things that Arab governments in the Middle East visit upon their own people – no need for Israel to have a perfectly horrible time – still, the focus is on what the Jews may or may not be doing wrong in Gaza. And it makes people angry and vehement as nothing else does.

Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.

Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes

Midnight wrote:
Wats with the new threads per headline rule now?

Didnt we used to have a 'News' thread were we just posted watever.

At some point I started disliking meta-topics.

Midnight wrote:
seems to be littering the forums.

unneccessarily (dont think thats how u spell it) :doubt:

With the Gaza stuff - true, but some of the topics could be individually discussed IMO. This one about antisemitism, the one about Zeitoun and then there should be an all encompassing on about war crimes.

Best way to get a good mix of topics is if different people create topics. That way there will be more open discussion.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Tabish Khair: As a Muslim I cannot take the easy path of a rousing condemnation of Israel

The statistics are clear: about 1,000 Palestinians, including more than 400 children and women, killed by Israeli forces in the first 20 days of the current misadventure in the Middle East.

Given these statistics, it should be easy to condemn Israel. But it is not. Not unless you are Jewish.

As a Muslim I cannot take the easy path of a rousing condemnation of Israel. Because I have to bear in mind not only Muslim experiences but also Jewish ones. I have to bear in mind not only Zionism but also Nazism. I have to bear in mind not just the duplicity of Israeli politicians but the stupidity of Muslim ones. If I were Jewish I could simply condemn Israel's latest misadventure. If I were Jewish, I could choose to overlook my own, Jewish, contexts and focus instead on the rights and suffering of the other: of Muslim Palestinians. If I were Jewish, I could hardly do anything else – as a significant minority of Jewish intellectuals has demonstrated – without lying to myself about my own motives and twisting facts. But as a Muslim I cannot give myself the right to overlook the fears of the other: in this case, Israeli Jews...

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Can I call this person "moron extraodinaire"? The holocaust is irrelevant.

The stupidity of others I cannot argue against though. A lot of Muslims problems as a whole are down to Muslims themselves.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Why is the holocaust irrelevant? It's exactly what's going on in Gaza.

“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”

Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi

The Lamp wrote:
Why is the holocaust irrelevant? It's exactly what's going on in Gaza.

i think he meant the holocaust of jews in ww2

also i think that people need to make up their mind fairly about what's happening rather than support isreal because of something that happened 60 years ago

SMILE! its charity Wink

The Lamp wrote:
Why is the holocaust irrelevant? It's exactly what's going on in Gaza.

While The Israeli's may have used chemical weapons on civilians, the destruction is nowhere on the same scale, as total or (I suspect) as wilful.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Did you guys get the video footage of the effects of the chemical weapons on Palestinian children in the UK?

There are some HORRIBLE, disturbing videos on Syrian TV, like a boy whose eyes had melted. Literally.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
Did you guys get the video footage of the effects of the chemical weapons on Palestinian children in the UK?

Nope, not seen/heard/read about them.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
The Lamp wrote:
Why is the holocaust irrelevant? It's exactly what's going on in Gaza.

While The Israeli's may have used chemical weapons on civilians, the destruction is nowhere on the same scale, as total or (I suspect) as wilful.

But it's virtually the same motivation, aren't they turning into the thing that they're supposed to despise?

“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”

Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi

Circle of violence - the bullied becomes the bully. Its very common.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Exactly!

“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”

Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi

Ya'qub wrote:
Did you guys get the video footage of the effects of the chemical weapons on Palestinian children in the UK?

There are some HORRIBLE, disturbing videos on Syrian TV, like a boy whose eyes had melted. Literally.

Hmmm. They 'MAY' have used phosphurous. But they're not sure. I sure hope they didnt' take this attitude of not-being-quite-sure-but...-'meh' into their targeting of Hamas militants... oh, wait.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Video report from about an injured child being united with her father - and multiple eye witness reports from different parties of how the soldiers deliberately shot at children.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Quote:

Standing against a tide of hatred

It is not Israel's action, but the vitriolic reaction to it that has been disproportionate. There's only one explanation: antisemitism

Is it good for the Jews?

If you were so inclined, you could ask that question about the Madoff mess, the Gaza offensive, the latest screed from Alan Dershowitz – or about a new recipe for angel-food cake. Which is to say, if you are looking for antisemitism, you can find it anywhere, even in a dessert cookbook. But if even paranoids have enemies, I think it's fair to say that these are tough times for Jews.

But here is what I finally know: with all the troubles in the world, with the terrible things that the Chinese do in Tibet, and do to their own citizens; with the horrors of genocide committed in Darfur by Sudanese Muslims; with all the bad things that Arab governments in the Middle East visit upon their own people – no need for Israel to have a perfectly horrible time – still, the focus is on what the Jews may or may not be doing wrong in Gaza. And it makes people angry and vehement as nothing else does. The vitriol it inspires is downright weird. But that makes sense, because antisemitism itself – creepy, dark, ancient and insidious – is, more than anything else, just plain weird.

Some criticism of Israel during this conflict has been anti-Semitic. People who equate Israel with all Jews are anti-Semitic and most often view the world through George Bush goggles - i.e. us vs them. But these people are not and have not been a part of the mainstream criticism of Israel and its bombing of Gaza.

Criticism of what Israel did and is doing Gaza in is due to Israel's grossly disproportionate response to small rocket fire, collective punishment, violations of human rights and contraventions of international law. Anti-Semitism doesn't come into it.

Beast wrote:
Some criticism of Israel during this conflict has been anti-Semitic. People who equate Israel with all Jews are anti-Semitic...

That's a bit strong.

They are 'wrong' or 'mistaken', but that doesnt' mean they are racist.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

You can be racist and not know it.

Most people are specific, in that the enemy in question are the zionists. as the saying goes, not all Jews are zionist, nor are all zionists Jews. The likes of maddoff, wolferwitz, and derschowitz are prime examples of zionists who commit blatant crimes and cry 'anti-semitism'. However, why is it that these criminal zionists, the likes of those mentioned, keep on evading punishment ?. Why, when theories are put forward by well versed academics about a possible conspiracy, are they shunned and regarded as madmen. The lies of the neo con/zionists have reached epidemic proportions, to an extent where the Muslim population can no longer differentiate between right and wrong.

The Arab world is too busy purchasing third rate football clubs, the likes of Dubai housing large zionist corporations and and allowing the 'western' culture, the satanic inhumane activities clearly forbidden in Islam, to thrive there. All this whilst a massacre beyond comprehension is being inflicted on the imprisoned Palestinian population in Gaza. No one can put the tirade of hate, or Islamophobia to be precise, to a halt. It is imperative for Muslim's to stay strong and resolute, we can only pray we stay alive to witness the return of Hazrat Isa (a.s).