"Omrow" wrote:

Salam

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

Holland moves to ban burqa

Naturally.

What else did you expect?

Infact, I am surprised it has taken them so long to ban women from covering up.

I was talking to a dutch girl in city centre the other day.

She was visiting our Manchester.

I asked her straight:

Netherlands being the porn capital of the world,
how can you people tolerate ANY clothes in your country?

She laughed hysterically.

Omrow

omro do u make it a habit of talking to random girls in ur city centre about rude stuff?

if so-u must be a bigger wierdo than i thought :roll:

Salam

She was not a random girl.

Actually, come to think of it, no girl is random.

Anyway, I was not talking about rude topics.

I dont do that. Its not my style.

For your information Madiya, we were discussing an important issue.

Omrow

"Omrow" wrote:

For your information Madiya, we were discussing an important issue.

netherlands being a rude country and not tolerating any clothes there?

yes, v important for u. i'm sure.

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

"Omrow" wrote:

For your information Madiya, we were discussing an important issue.

netherlands being a rude country and not tolerating any clothes there?

yes, v important for u. i'm sure.

Isn't it kind of cold up there to be running around with no clothes on? I'm sure they tolerate [b]some[/b] clothes.

"The Great 100" wrote:

stmark,

He is the archbishop, not the archduke. This issue is petty and complex, a horrid combination, but I suppose if it is a question of the right to practise her faith her point is less petty than theirs. She would need to demonstrate that it is a serious impingement on her faith by way of appeal and I doubt any vicar could claim she is obliged, just as the archbishop has pointed out he does not attend a synagogue wearing a prominent cross because it is unnecessary and credibly offensive. Then again British Airways could simply be gracious, it is not as if she is encouraging strikes and it is only a small necklace. Maybe BA could come up with a regulation on sizes and only backtrack if tensions emerge like people demanding they can come in to work with CND badges.

Arch something. The King of jordon thinks they should obey and not cause a stink about it. http://www.jordan.jo/en/en-news/wmview.php?ArtID=11043

HM the King's News

November 01st, 2006 - 08:20 (Posted By: dema alzoubi)
King says European Muslims should be active in public life

Netherlandsn
AMSTERDAM (Agencies) — Muslims living in Europe should take an active role in society, obey local laws and not be afraid of losing their religious identity, King Abdullah said Tuesday.

“One does not need to sacrifice a Muslim identity to be a good citizen,” King Abdullah said at Amsterdam City Hall while on a state visit to the Netherlands (see the full text of his remarks).

“Islam calls on people to be active participants in public life, to uphold the welfare of the community, to strive for good, not for ourselves alone, but for all — Muslim and non-Muslim alike,” he said.

A Europe-wide debate over the integration of Muslims has intensified in recent years over such issues as the wearing of headscarves, discrimination and alienation faced by immigrant communities and the attacks in London and Madrid.

Waves of immigration, much of it from Muslim countries, has also led to a backlash in countries like the Netherlands, which has instituted mandatory citizenship and language courses for new immigrants in an attempt to promote integration.

“According to Islamic law, in countries like those of Europe, where Muslims enjoy equal justice and the freedom to practise their religion — and even to express it in the public domain — they must abide by the laws of the lands in which they live,” King Abdullah said.

He added that “millions and millions do”.

The Monarch later held talks with Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende on means to enhance cultural and economic ties.

During the meeting, King Abdullah and Balkenende discussed “the urgent issue of peace in the Middle East”.

“This continuing conflict is, far and away, the most serious threat to the stability and future of my entire region. Every delay lets the situation grow worse,” the King said.

He urged “concerted international action, to get the parties moving forward”.

“We need to be very clear about the goal: Positive, concrete steps, leading to a just, legal settlement that will hold for the long-term.”

The King cited the Arab Peace Initiative as the basis of the envisioned solution — “a two-state solution, based on international legality, with a viable, independent Palestine state that can offer hope to its people, and a secure Israel that lives in peace with all its neighbours”.

“Reform is a process, not a one-step solution,” he said.

“It takes involvement and commitment of people throughout society. As we have moved forward, we have engaged the private sector and civil society. I am pleased to say our efforts are beginning to deliver results.”

For his part, Balkenende praised King Abdullah’s efforts to enhance interfaith and intercultural dialogue, voicing his country’s support for Jordan. He also called for a solution to the Middle East conflict through the establishment of an independent Palestinian state that lives peacefully side by side with a secure Israel.

On Monday, King Abdullah urged the international community to press Israelis and Palestinians to return to the negotiating table and forge a lasting Middle East peace.

Earlier Tuesday, the King laid a wreath at a national monument in Amsterdam honouring Dutch victims of World War II.

These people in authority talk a lot.
What is he the king of?
Theres only one king of the Arab coutries!

"The Great 100" wrote:

Admin, you are right. But I still don't like the burqa.

not liking it is not a good enough reason to ban it. i don't like tongue piercings, or most other face piercings for that matter. doesn't mean its gonna be banned. :roll:

and yash, lol u make me laugh.

i find it disgusting how muslims and non muslims in their pathetic quest to mock the niqab suggest niqabies are somehow ugly? In whose eyes are we ugly? This is the same argument used to deter women from wearing the hijab. How do you know what we look like underneath. that's what really irritates the living daylights out of you that there are women out there who actually want to cover the beauty God gave them, in a very orthodox manner. Whether jane without a hijab/niqab is ugly or whether jane with a hijab/niqa is ugly is none of your damn business.

We live in such a superficial society where women are judged upon their looks and treated as nothing but sexual commodities. Apparently women have more rights here than anywhere in the world. If that's true then what authority do you have to "judge" whether i'm beautiful or not huh? Beauty according to whose' manuals Vogue or Gods? I'll take God's manual everytime. Im' not a vain person but to set the record straight i'm beautiful and i don't need thousands of men to confirm that fact for me. I have a mirror i have an eye i don't need your eyes and confirmation to be accepted thank you very much!

my reasons why niqab should not be banned:

1. it dosn't physically or emotionally harm any one
2. it is a womens choice if she wants to cover her face or not
3. no one will recognise you, so you won't get hasseled
4. the niqab (in a way) shows your character
5. you don't have to worry about what people think of your appearance

Sh'vua tov. I'm not planning to make a numbered list of this and that. I've expressed views on the burqa before. *DUST*, I have [i]not[/i] called for the burqa to be banned. Rolling eyes not called for. I can see the arguments for religious freedom as well as the arguments for intervening in cultural oppression and to some degree the security risk. I do think security and judicial authorities as well as employers must have a right to stipulate that faces be visible in courts, on ID of course, in the workplace if stipulated by conditions even if these are only introduced at the point when an employee decides to wear one, and whenever it is necessary to confirm identity or ascertain reactions in a professional investigation such as statements at a police station. Provided there is cooperation in these areas I feel that elsewhere a woman must have the freedom to cover her face, notwithstanding many women don't have the freedom show their faces, which is disgraceful chauvinism. I believe that if a sizeable proportion of men for religious or any other reasons wished to wear balaclavas in public similar issues would arise, minus the oppression issue. I do not have a single argument in favour of the burqa per se, nor would I demand that a woman cannot wear one, much as I dislike it. I dislike it because it represents to me that a woman is being dictated, whether or not she chooses to support the argument, that she must hide from people, it can be intimidating, and I am not given to communicate with someone who believes that hiding inside that outfit improves her life or anyone else's one bit, any more than I would want to spend time with someone who wears a red nose, whited face and very long shoes and argues for staying in character as a matter of principle, but tends not to speak with men at all. I find such behaviour downright wierd and hard to be around.

actually in arab countries rape crimes and sexual crimes on women are lower than in western countries. Much has to do with covering up.

You can't dismiss the fact that in the west women are used in a sexual way in every facet of life. Even in the work place to this day they are not treated equally. Many women still feel like they have to flirt or sleep with their bosses to get up the career ladder. I;m sure many successful women have gone up the ladder without doing such things. But it's a sad fact that women still feel this sort of pressure.

You only have to look out of your car passing down a busy st to see a billboard plastered with a semi naked women advertising anything from furniture to shampoo. There's no comparison with this sort of degredation of women and they way they're treated in arab countries.

I'm not saying arab countries are perfect i know they have their problems. Women aren't allowed to vote, work is restricted and many other things, but they are definately not viewed as "sexual commodities".

well Ed anger is normal excuse moi for being i duno human? Do you expect me to behave like a robot. That's the problem with debates these days they lack sincerity they are devoid of real feelings. Ppl just speak pros and cons as if things are that black and white and simple. They're not.

When a person uses a mocking tone that is emotion, when a person uses a joyful tone that is emotion. These expressions are permitted nobody calls them "over emotional" but as soon as someone expresses anger then lo and behold they are acccused of letting their "emotions" get the better of them. Give me a break please. I've made many plausible arguments. Plausible in my mind because i believe in the niqab even with it's potential problems. But if ppl take a stance in not believing it to them my arguments will sound weak. I can't change ppls views. I'm not making no more arguments for or against it seems rather pointless. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

btw poster the holier than thou attitude can be within any person a hijabi or even a non hijab and anyone from any faith. It's to do with the trait of arrogance which can be within any person.So i don't really accept that. It's not about being holier than the next person. I see it as an extra act of worship. Just like optional (nafl prayers). if i wish to perfom extra acts of prayer no one will look down on me for it, in fact they'd be full of praise. But if i wish to cover a bit more i'm looked down upon? I don;t need public approval i'm not trying to be extra "holy".

"Omrow" wrote:

I was talking to a dutch girl in city centre the other day.

She was visiting our Manchester.

I asked her straight:

Netherlands being the porn capital of the world,
how can you people tolerate ANY clothes in your country?

She laughed hysterically.

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

omro do u make it a habit of talking to random girls in ur city centre about rude stuff?

if so-u must be a bigger wierdo than i thought

it seems to me like it was a rehtorical question sis.. i dont think it was said maliciously.. :--)

"yashmaki" wrote:

i find it disgusting how muslims and non muslims in their pathetic quest to mock the niqab suggest niqabies are somehow ugly? In whose eyes are we ugly? This is the same argument used to deter women from wearing the hijab. How do you know what we look like underneath. that's what really irritates the living daylights out of you that there are women out there who actually want to cover the beauty God gave them, in a very orthodox manner. Whether jane without a hijab/niqab is ugly or whether jane with a hijab/niqa is ugly is none of your damn business.

We live in such a superficial society where women are judged upon their looks and treated as nothing but sexual commodities. Apparently women have more rights here than anywhere in the world. If that's true then what authority do you have to "judge" whether i'm beautiful or not huh? Beauty according to whose' manuals Vogue or Gods? I'll take God's manual everytime. Im' not a vain person but to set the record straight i'm beautiful and i don't need thousands of men to confirm that fact for me. I have a mirror i have an eye i don't need your eyes and confirmation to be accepted thank you very much!

I definatly don't say that women in niqaab are ugly.......nope!! Coz everyone that I see in niqaab, always has really nice eyes!!

I'm against the niqaab purely for security reasons.

1.Provides modesty
2.womens own chioce
3.make faces at people (i think thats why jak straw doesnt like it he must have thought that lady was makin faces at him)
4.Character
5.Self-respect
against:
1.might be hard to communicate
2People can make faces at you without you knowing
3.non-muslims might target you for attacks
hard to think of anymore i wudnt tell a non-muslim girl to cover up if shes wearing revealing clothes so why are non muslims telling us to taake of stuff
one of the only things that animals are sperated by humans is self-respect and covering up gives women that but also takiing away clothes takes away that.

F4nzo,

If you were told you had to hide your face all the time would it really increase your self-respect?

"zara" wrote:

my reasons why niqab should not be banned:

1. it dosn't physically or emotionally harm any one
2. it is a womens choice if she wants to cover her face or not
3. no one will recognise you, so you won't get hasseled
4. the niqab (in a way) shows your character
5. you don't have to worry about what people think of your appearance

These 5 reason are so good that I dont think anyone can find a flaw in them.

Excellent thinking by zara.

"The Great 100" wrote:

F4nzo,

If you were told you had to hide your face all the time would it really increase your self-respect?

to my understanding the wearing of the niqaab is a choice no one is forcing you
self respect ok lets talk about self respect if revealing nearly all parts of your body is that self-respect than what kind of world do we live in

Quote:

[b]Burka ban by Indian jewellers[/b]

Jewellers in the western Indian city of Pune have said they will not serve women who wear veils covering their faces following a spate of thefts.

The Jewellers Association in Pune - about 170km from Mumbai - said three recent cases of theft involved women dressed in burkas.

The police were unable to identify the thieves because the women's faces were covered, they said.

Groups representing Muslims have had a mixed response to the move.

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6215181.stm[/url]

[color=indigo][b]Thats only fair.
Good idea thou![/b][/color]