Allahu Akbar – God is Great
I don’t understand the overuse of this phrase by Muslims. Why is it considered appropriate to use it at every opportunity? Whether it is prior to hacking some innocent persons head off with a rusty knife or just before detonating the nail bomb strapped to your waist and killing numerous innocent people it seems that this is the perfect expression to use.
I accept the fact that Islam has the most narrow view of other popular religions and their validity, but surely it is a bit of a given that God is in fact considered great by all others of a religious persuasion. After all, if you don’t believe that one simple fact then you probably should really be an atheist.
So, what I do not understand is why this expression has been hijacked by Muslims and made their own. It’s almost as if the constant and irritating repetition of this phrase lends some kind of credence or holy endorsement to whatever atrocity they are about to commit.
Isn’t this is worst sort of arrogance? Committing some horrible and brutal murder just after invoking the name of the deity who is hardly likely to be too pleased with the perpetrator. It is difficult to imagine a blacker unintentional irony.
But why can’t Muslims use a little more imagination? I have read that the Arabic language is beautifully expressive and its every nuance cannot possibly be translated into coarse and primitive languages such as English. However, it does seem to me that Allahu Akbar translates rather well, leaving little if any ambiguity.
I am sure that it must be possible to shout out “This is a senseless killing” or “I don’t care who I kill” or even “Goodbye Mum” in Arabic.
So, why shout it? Is it mandatory? Is it a Muslim thing? – there doesn’t seem to be the use of a single expression in other religions, mind you they do seem to be a little less blood thirsty though – maybe that’s the reason.
Does hacking off people’s heads and exploding a nail bomb encompass “every opportunity" at which Muslims use the phrase Allahu Akbar?
Why do you accept that Islam has a narrow view of other popular religions?
Why do you assume that Muslim don’t think God is considered great by all others of a religious persuasion?
Are you sure other religions don’t have their own equivalence to Allahu Akbar?
(My italics) Who’s they?
It is quite arrogant, yes.
Where did you read that English is a primitive language?
It is absolutely possible.
This is the only constructive, genuinely inquisitive, and perfectly sensible part of your entire post. I don’t know if I can answer it, but I’m sure someone else on the forum will be able to. I don’t understand. Other religions are less “blood thirsty” so they don’t have a single phrase praising God? :?
How is Islam more “blood thirsty” than other religions? What measures and techniques do you use to come to that conclusion?
I will resist quoting your reply to my post as it gets very difficult to follow, but to answer your points:-
Every opportunity means exactly that. My questions is why this single phrase and why does it seem to be a necessary precursor to every single action or sentance?
Islam does indeed seem to have very little tolerance for other relegions - disbelievers will be burned with fire, Allah turned the Sabbath breaking Jews in Apes etc etc etc etc etc
What I said was that it was a [i]given[/i] that all faiths pretty much believed that God is great. So, why bang on about it?
Other relegions don't seem to have the old repitition thing going. I am willing to be corrected on this point though, please advise.
'They' are Muslims of course. Who else?
I have read here many times that the perfectness of the Koran cannot be translated from its original beutiful Arabic into less sophisticated languages such as English. I have also read that many posters here do not speak Arabic, so I do not understand how they can be proper Muslims.
Bloodthirsty? how about these:-
1) Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.)
2) Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah.
3) Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom
I can provide more if you need them, just ask
I hope that this has answered your questions, so perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten me ...... why shout out this expression [i]all the time[/i] - it gets very, very, very boring for the rest of us - we got the message some time back thanks.[/img]
I accept the fact that Islam has the most narrow view of other popular religions and their validity[/quote]
in islam it is sed 2 study other major religions with monythesiom (the belief in 1 god) to understand how dey think nd how dey do so we dnt have a narrow view it is u lwaful in islam 2 disgrace another religion we have 2 respect peoles points of view nd may i ask wat religion are u
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
eh, are you tex with a different username?
Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.
Hi, if I understand you (which I am not confident of) you appear to be saying that it is unlawful in Islam to disrespect other peoples faiths - have I go that right?
How about this then [i]Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.[/i]
Absolutely not! I am at the moment trawling through the major religions of the world, trying to decide who to sign up with.
u didnt understand me because ur ignorant wat religion r u so i can give u sme quotes and were did u find dis from
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
That's rather rude isn't it? but to answer the second part of your question, I found this in the Koran. Would you like me to point you to the relevent passage?
As to the first question, I believe that I have already answered that.
[b][color=violet]eH, you sound poshhhhhh....[/color][/b]
...live everyday as your last day...
I will number my questions in order to help you to follow them. The reason I ask these questions is to break down your subjective and restricted comprehension of Islam, Muslims and the world more generally. This, I hope, will allow you to consider the phrase Allahu Akbar and the issues and questions surrounding it in a nuanced and rounded manner.
I will be particularly interested to read you answer to 8.d.
1. a. Does hacking off people’s heads and exploding a nail bomb encompass “every opportunity" at which Muslims use the phrase Allahu Akbar?
b. Why do you use these examples?
c. Why don’t you compliment one of the violent examples with a non-violent example?
2. a. Have you come across Islamic intolerance of other religions from Islamic sources or have been told Islam is intolerant of other religions from non-Muslim commentaries on Islam?
b. Do you know of any, or are you open to the possibility of, examples of Islamic tolerance of other religions?
3. Why do you assume that the phrase Allahu Akbar is used to express the greatness of God to people of other faiths?
4. Why does repetition annoy you?
5. When you say ‘they’ commit atrocities why do you mean Muslims? Why not terrorists, militants, Al Qaeda, rebels, etc?
6. a. You read here that English is a less sophisticated language than Arabic? Is less sophisticated the same as primitive?
b. Do you accept that your use of the word ‘primitive’ was sarcastic?
7. a. To what extent are your examples of Islam being ‘bloodthirsty’ representative of the entire philosophy, history, and practice of Islam?
b. How do you come to the conclusion that Islam is [i]more[/i] bloodthirsty than other religions?
c. Have you ever carried out a comparison of the ‘bloodthirstiness’ of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism?
8. a. Why do think that Allahu Akbar is "shouted" out "[i]all the time[/i]"?
b. Have you ever heard it said quietly?
c. If no, do you think that some Muslims do say Allahu Akbar without shouting?
d. In a conversation with the average Muslim how many times would you expect him/her to say/shout Allahu Akbar?
From your first two posts I think the following are questions which, at face value, are genuinely inquisitive and deserving of a reply:
[b]A. [/b]So, why shout it? Is it mandatory? Is it a Muslim thing?
[b]B. [/b]Isn’t this is worst sort of arrogance? Committing some horrible and brutal murder just after invoking the name of the deity who is hardly likely to be too pleased with the perpetrator. It is difficult to imagine a blacker unintentional irony.
[b]C. [/b]I have read here many times that the perfectness of the Koran cannot be translated from its original beautiful Arabic into less sophisticated languages such as English. I have also read that many posters here do not speak Arabic, so I do not understand how they can be proper Muslims.
Question B I have already answered. I think most, if not all, of the other members will agree that committing murder and shouting Allahu Akbar at the same time is arrogant.
A and C I will leave to other members and throw in my two cents worth wherever I feel I can.
OK
1a) It seems that these words always precede these actions
1b) Because of the deeply offensive juxtaposition vis a vis the words and the action
1c) I would love to, none come to mind though
2a) Islamic intolerance of other religions appears to come from the Koran
2b) Yes, I believe that the Koran also states that it is OK for anyone to believe anything they like - I will look it up and provide the verse for you if you require it. However, this sort of contradiction is hardly helpful.
3) I don't. I am questioning why it is necessary to keep repeating it like some mantra. I [b]know[/b] you believe God is Great, [b]everyone[/b] knows this. You do not need to keep saying it.
4) The persistant repitition does not make it any more true. If it is true the first time it is also true the hundreth time. It is not any more true, nor ever will be. Simply repeating it ad nauseum serves only to imply that its utterance is in some way an affirmation for some deed, event or statement that cannot possibly be sought or assured.
5) I am sorry, perhaps I should have said it your way. Or, maybe Muslim terrorists etc would have been more accurate. No offense was intended.
6) If something is less sophisticated it almost certainly follows that it is more primitive. I accept though that this is a subjective comparison.
7a) How do you suggest that it should be categorised and what measurement would you use?
7b) As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong, the majority of Muslims would prefer to adhere to Sharia law and its strict obervance of the word of the koran as opposed to any national form of secular jurisprudence. Whilst conceding that the Bible is probably as bloodthirsty as the Koran, it is not true to say that there is any Christian orthadox movement following the same lines. Again, I am happy to be corrected.
7c) Answered and conceded above.
8a) Personal observation
8b) No
8c) I do not know
8d) 8?, 6? , 23? I have no idea but I would refer you to (3)
wat religion are u it seems unfair for us to be critised in a sortov debate while we know not wut 2 say to u but a defense so if u dont mind please tell us which religion are u
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
i think he's looking for a religion to follow
Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.
ok thnx 4 dat i think its obvious he has no intentions whatsoever to become a muslim hes to busy critisizing it by the way eh u need 2 luk at a religions all aspects not just some
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
OK. So your only experience of the phrase Allahu Akbar is in the context of Al Qaeda terrorists beheading hostages. I think the terrorists use the phrase in these instances to justify their actions, if not to others then at least to themselves. This does not make the action just or religiously sanctioned - it is an arrogant method of legitimization.
But this is not the only instance where the phrase Allahu Akbar is used. Nor is it where the phrase originates nor is it the occasion on which it is used most often.
Given that Allahu Akbar is shortend from Allahu Akbar min kulli shay (God is greater than everything) it is used by some Muslims whenever they see an instance of worldly greatness - eg a grand building or even a fast car. I once sat next to an old man watching a cricket match and he would say Allahu Akbar every time the bowler released the ball.
I don't think I've ever heard Allahu Akbar said with people of other faiths in mind. It's not a way of telling Jews or Christians that God is in fact great and the greatest. Although, at a conference of Muslim religious leaders a few months ago a non-Muslim Labour MP was welcomed onto the stage with shouts of Allahu Akbar. At the same event a Christian pastor applauded for his speech with shouts of Allahu Akbar. Allahu Akbar here was used instead of applause.
At the start of prayer Muslims say (not shout) Allahu Akbar and many times during prayer.
The closest Allahu Akbar comes to being a mantra is when it is read repetitively on prayer beads. In other instances it is hardly ever said without pause. It is not a mantra, but a phrase.
You need to move away from seeing this phrase as something terrorists say. It is bigger than the terrorists. They use it only to try and gain whatever shreds of legitimacy they can.
If you want examples of something that comes close in other religions then there's Om in Hinduism, Hallelujah in Christainity and Long Live the King in monarchical states.
takbir allahhu akbar mashallah good research u put et or eh in his place
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
I've [i]tried [/i]to explain things.
I don't think trying to "put him in his place" will help anyone.
i know i know but well done any ways
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
Don't pretend to be keeping up - ur fulin nbdy an dat s da truf
[b][color=violet]lol[/color][/b]
...live everyday as your last day...
aha my nieve freind i am keeping up it is u who is lacking
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...