Well this tiresome subject is once again being raised by desperate Tony (along with animal experiments and nuclear power). Seems like there's something new every day.
What do you all think regarding this issue.
My personal thoughts are that culture is a product of society. He's portraying it as some ideology that people should be following.
"Britishness" has never been particularly popular except among the middle and upper classes of the imperial era and during the world wars.
Plus it seems a bit rich for him to be promoting Britishness while making Britain a province of Europe.
Plus there's nothing which is exclusively British anyway in terms of values.
Any 'British' values which the gov wants schools to teach will be generic civic and political values.
I think the idea is to have a British identity you can be proud of and not one borne of political gripes. So you can smile when you pass people in the streets and whatever and enjoy showing a bit of love. Not saying that can only come from the classroom but it's a worthy idea.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Only when it rains.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
british culture is
tea n scones
moody, reserved, rude londoners
traffic
red buses
Not forgetting eating fish n chips and watching eastenders.
Many of the ideas now associated with "Britishness" emerged only during the imperial age. More importantly though they were middle class specific. Prudishness was a middle class trait not a working class trait. Infact during that time prostitution and incest were quite common among the working class. We don't associate those things with Britishness though.
we have the right to chose whatever culture we want to be apart of
i definately dont want to be apart of british culture cus i dont wanna endup in a home and love my pets more than my own children lol
there are good and bad things to be found in every culture. :roll: you can take the good and leave the bad.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Foregoing description in favour of stereotypes. That is a pretty inane summary of British culture.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
well
feel free to expand on the richness of the british culture :roll: :roll:
Politeness, civility, order. Generosity. Compromise. Openness to technological, philosophical, political and ethical advancement/"progress". A sense of optimism. High quality resources. Rigorous social welfare. Fairness. Honesty and vulnerability. Maybe when you look at British culture you do not see much of this, and would tend to hold up the louts, the sneering, the pompous, the traffic. Personally I think that is like looking at Islam and listing misogeny, racism, violence/terrorism, ignorance, all-consuming pride and arrogance, economic backwardness and elitism, laziness - in other words anything negative I can think of and find examples of that helps to sap a Muslim's self-respect or ignite hostility. However as we are on board to promote high values we ought to acknowledge that British values don't stem from resting on our laurels and taking cheap shots, and you could always ask the Brits who endured wars and rations with a stiff-upper lip and saw the empire crumble, taking on a liberal world-view coupled with shame at colonialism and accomodation of other cultures. Britain offers natives and immigrants healthcare, accomodation, welfare-support and a shot at prosperity and has a tight system of laws to clamp down on discrimination and unfairness. Britain has a lot of strong points and I'm sure you can see past the discontent and cynicism of your above remarks.
[size=9]Whatever you do, know that I will always love you. Or else.[/size]
100 you're too harsh on lilsis. and how can you compare culture to a religion, they're very different and that is an unnecessary comparison, written to provoke a reaction. u make it sound like we cannot be simultaneously british and muslim, an issue which people seem to be hung up on nowadays. ironically whilst i could now never imagine living outside of england (having done so before), some of my non-muslim mates who have lived here from birth and whose families have been here for centuries have no problem with the idea.
As for your list, here are the ones i would attest to:
the others are questionable, hit and miss.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Dust, that is fair enough. I didn't mean to be harsh on LilSis in any way, and I hope she doesn't interpret my views that way.
LilSis, please don't take anything I say personally, if ever I think I need a heart to heart with you I'll make it obvious. All I wanted to get across is that as part of the fabric of British culture it is up to us to define it and not to be critical unless we're offering or looking for solutions. My comments about Muslims were by way of an example that it is easy to mock, and not because I was actually mocking Muslims, and my comment about cynicism is not to imply that I usually find you a cynic. In fact you are usually clever and generous if I may.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
1000000000man
u description of british culture is ideal but not realistic
we're both Londoners and we BOTH know that the above is NOT what we face on a daily basis
i had impatient people swearing and horning my sister in her car all day long-and in her defence other then her speeding over speedbumps her drive was perfect today
It is not unrealistic. Millions of people have been welcomed and supported by the British state and the British people and I have reason to be grateful. I am lucky to be here. It is optimistic in that I prefer to dwell on and promote what Britain offers than to milk frustrations. Where I take issue with Britain I start by emphasising the best of what I believe we stand for, which is a civil, harmonious, enjoyable and productive life for everyone.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
I think theres quite a few British people out there who are 'alrite'.
I parked up in town a few days ago (its a pay and display area) and this lady was about to leave but handed me her ticket which had another hour on it to go.
Which was very nice and generious of her.
I was only in town for 10-15minutes so i passed the ticket onto someone else as i left and thus are we all a part of the great circle of life.
Back in BLACK
I have to agree with Lilsis and Dust. I'd love to say that Brits are known for their politeness, civility and order. But that doesn't seem to be reflected in many cities around Britain nor in the media.
Instead they're known for being outright impatient and rude. Say good morning in most towns they will either ignore you, or in not so nice terms tell you to buzz off. As far as law and order goes well sadly Brits are known the world over for their larger lad behaviour, and yob mentality. Just take the world cup, police have taken pre-emptive action to prevent violence in Germany by confiscating passports off potential trouble makers.
As for the other stuff you mentioned 100, I agree Britian has done a lot for immigrants and ethnic minorities, welfare system, council housing, etc etc. Even to this day I know a lot of ppl come to this country just for the welfare system, coz they think we have it easy here. We do get a lot here that we wouldn't have received if our parents had remained back in Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, etc etc, there's no denying that, my parents remind me of that and their hard graft all the time.
We can openly criticise the government and prime minister. In many muslim countries for example if you did that you would be imprisoned on some false charge, merely to silence your dissent.
Also we have the freedom to think, speak and behave as we wish to a level that is denied in many non western countries, who can deny that? If Britain was without its merits surely we would have left the country by now?
yashmaki,
I wonder if as a religious and covered Muslim lady you might be less outgoing with strangers and receive less of the nodding and smiling that gets passed about. I'm not suggesting that to be critical, but I do wonder. Generally when I say good morning to people they may be absorbed in their thoughts and ignore me or they may respond kindly, and when my smile lifts someone else, the moment stays with me. And I can allow other passers-by their reasons for being morose. Maybe something awful, like having just got diagnosed with cancer.
I can think of only two occasions in all my life when saying good morning provoked a rude response, and on those occasions I was unfortunate to have greeted a racist bigot and I would not group those attitudes with British culture.
Seraphim acknowledged the kindness of the lady before him, passed it on, said something nice about the lady and perhaps went about his day in a good mood, and noone knows how much good might have been done by Seraphim passing it on. He is lucky that the lady before him was the sort of person with a kindly outlook on others and I think that even if we have noticed unpleasantness, we should be like that.
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
Well I'm usually ignored because I get the feeling ppl think I don't know a word of English. Usually when they hear me speaking English they often say hello etc. That often happens in the supermarket, or town. i.e 2 days ago i was waiting for my husband near a cash point. This man started lining up behind me. When i turned around to say i'm not in the line, he honestly seemed positively shocked that i could speak English fluently. It didn't upset me. But i think something needs to be done to break down these false ideas about women in headscarf or burqa. Most the women who wear such dress in the UK are born and bred here and speak English fluently.
I do feel like i have to make an extra effort to initiate conversations. I had a nice chat the other day with an old lady at the bus stop. But it's sad to think that only happens when I spark up the conversation. I guess it's a mix of others thinking I don't know English, and perhaps a little fear too.
I don't think I'm more passive coz of my dress. But I am more cautious as to who I speak to, coz i do sometimes fear I'll get a negative response coz of 9/11 and July bombings. But once i muster up the courage it's hard to shut me up.
yashmaki,
I have met someone who is very much into promoting a different image of Muslim women but I have never been convinced. Please don't mind my sharing this.
Blokes definitely won't feel comfortable initiating a conversation that isn't necessary. I wouldn't. I often think some negative things when I see someone in a burqa. I think:
This woman is deeply religious and therefore I am afraid she is possibly most judgmental. She is protecting herself/me from desires I don't have and obviously therefore thinks something cynical about me, easygoing white man probably lager lout. She is a beleagured housewife but the last thing she wants is sympathy or support from a stranger because she is stuck in that misogynist construct and the only people she values are her husband and immediate family and people of her own faith and to relate to me as human and not as other would in her book be immodest. She is part of a religious lobby encouraging Muslim girls to be submissive to men so their lives are ruined and their ability to think stolen. Maybe hers is. She may be determined that I don't think that about her but I dare her to say something that will prove me wrong, anything. I feel like what she is wearing just begs me to think less of her.
[size=11]I find what I have just written very insulting and I am not assuming the worst of you or that you have no response, and this afternoon when I see women in burqas I will actively seek an opportunity to demonstrate that I have been nurturing a flawed set of assumptions. All the same, the truth about what I have said is that it more-or-less characterises my thoughts on the subject of women in burqas.[/size]
[size=10]I feel I'm gonna move on back down south
you know where the water tastes like cherry wine[/size]
I gots to agree with Seraph and 1000mans
Britain is a great place to be.....You jus gotta get out and experience it
this week i've been workin at the shop, and we get a lot of customers from african, asian and european and british backgrounds...and everyone is nice friendly and jolly...i think the weather has a part to play in that too!
I dont deny that theres many bad sides and bad people.....but you gotta take whats good from it, and for me...Britian's positives far outwiegh the negatives
having said that, im increasingly worried by the media, the acceptance of homo's and other freaks, the stupid laws, the crap justice system and so on
but a nice place to live, at least oldham is no doubt
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
oldham's a dump
Are you looking for an argument?
Well you aint gonna find it here.
On the other hand its got a nice community soirit to the place. Well bits of it.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
nah i'm not just it's a ghetto is it not? Come on tell me honestly apart from being "home" is it a desirable place to live?
home is where the heart is
just like how east london and crappy old small heath in B'ham is close to my heart
Its not a ghetto.
Where I live we have all the services we need closeby. 10 minute walk and you're in town centre. Our town centre is better than alot of city centre's out there.
Its mostly pretty peaceful. not much crime in this particular area.
We did get robbed once, but that was more my fault. I left the back door wide open after making some fried food the night before...
Houses could be better, streets should be alot cleaner. (honestly the only time you see those cleaning van-thingies is a few weeks before the local elections!)
Its average. and I am not pushing it because live here. I believe I am honest enough to myself to admit the truth.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I think what Admin is trying to say is you gotta take the good with the bad. Oldham has a number of different areas some more nicer to live in than others, some are ghetto-ish... while the majority aint.
Infact where i live is probably one of the nicer ends of Oldham... or atleast imo.
Oh and our Town Center is probably better than quite a few towns around as the people from their towns usually travel to ours to do their shopping.
Hayders right, Britian is a good place to live if you get out and about and experience it. Sitting at home and only going out to the shops aint going to give you much of an experience of what the country is like.
Back in BLACK
Apparently there is a paintballing place in Oldham.
I've always wanted to go, but everyone always chickens out.
'It'll hurt!'
'Course it will. :twisted:
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Yeah they're always advertising in Town.
lol, i wanna go.
Get Ed aswell... we'll all go.
[size=6]
hahahahah time for some payback.[/size]
Back in BLACK
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