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Khan Bhai ALLAH aap ko ajar e azeem or jaza e khayr ata farmay.
May ALLAH Almighty grant Brother Khan great reward and a bes reward.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
what even if the settings in the mosque is not right for women?..
Like i said, women arnt prevented or discouraged to go to the Mosque in Tabligh, as long as the setting is right. And there are numerous examples of women in Tabligh attending mosques where the settings are right..
I dont think they're missing the point, the point that I think you have missed is a Muslims duty to 'protect' our women.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
why because he agrees with you and is sympathetic towards TJ's
no ajr or sawaab for me? :o
dont worry Mr Ed
I pray that u get Ajr and sawaab-Ameen
cos u deserve it
thousands of mosques in the UK allow women to go to mosques on a daily basis, for jummah, for bayaan, for teaching kids etc
All the ones i know of up and down the country have seperate entrances, no intermixing...and of course women are safe and protected going to the mosque...
[b]
this is just a weak and lame excuse. [/b]
At the time of Hazrat Umar , it might not have been safe, environment, society, seperate entrances, ladies halls etc...but now it is very safe, no intermixing, seperate entrances, seperate halls, seperate wudhu facilities....
wasalaam
Ok so u answer the ban imposed by Hadrat Umar by suggesting some reasons. thats cool.
it might not be sade, etc etc.
My question is we knw that the Four Rightly Guided Khulafah extended the Masjid immensely; they purchased houses and land and extnded the Masjid for the benefit of the Believers. So I would think they could also have built seperate halls and seperate entrances for the women if they thought it was so important and essential for the women to come to the masjid.
Just as you have tried to explain away the ban of Sayyidina Umar radhiyallahu anhu with your own ideas, I respons by asking why didnt they build seperate halls and seperate entrances when the masjid was being extended and renovated. The answer from what I understand is that the it wasnt just because men and women were in the same hall that the ban was imposed becuse if that were the case building a seperate hall for them is the logical solution. No the ban must have been because of other reasons beyond the control of just buildin a new hall, it must have involved the change in society and the problems that were arising thereof.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
salaam
oh come on bro....lets not bang our heads against the walls.
i have already quoted u hadith from sahih bukhari and Nisaee which state dont stop women going to the mosques.
Hazrat umar must have stopped them due to reasons i mentioned earlier.
The point is today Muslims are soooo away from Islam, the mother plays an important role.
she needs to learn from the mosque,
she needs to teach in the mosque,
she needs to give advice to other sisters in the mosque,
she needs to give talks to sisters in the mosque,
she needs to have a say in teh mosque,
she needs to even attend alim course in the mosque,
she should even be a counsellor helping out people with their personal problems in the mosque,
she needs to get misguided sisters in to islam by attracting them to the mosque,
unislamic sisters needs to be invited in the mosque to meet good , islamic sisters,
sisters need to have discussions on modern and temporary issue sin the mosque..
and all you try to argue is that they should be discouraged..subhannallah. i just dont get it.
wasalaam
Brother the ahdeeth u have mentioned must also have reached Hadrat Umar and the other Sahabah. They didnt just fall into the books.
Hadrat Umar made his decision on certain principles, agreed? Now that of difference of opinion. As I have previously stated I fully accept that there is evidence and proof for allowing women to enter the masjid, but what I am saying is that there is ALSO proof that they can be discouraged.
Again I seem to be going round in circles. You have stated before that I am being narrowminded or rigid or somthing similar. Lets look at the evidence:
1. I say a woman can look how she likes at her wedding, but i made the mortal sin of stating my preference. Here I am being open.
2. I say there is evidence for women to attend masjid, there is evidence for them to be discouraged. I am being open because I accept both have valid points.
You on the other hand are insistent that there is no evidence or proof for idscouraging women. Brother I think you need to take a long hard look and see if I am being open or not here. I am of the opinion that the conditions or reasons which made Hadrat Umar discourage the women exist even more today, you think they are not. OK thats fine. So the issue is one of difference of opinon yet you are totally unwilling to accept that there is any validity to my arguement whereas I can openly say both views have proofs and validity.
Now, having said that I dont think you are going to concede any validity to our view so I think I will end my contribution to this discussion. i have alhamdulillah shown what true flexibilty and compassion despite disagreement is, you my friend on the other hand who claim to be so open and tolerant and understanding cannot accept a view other than your own as having any strong value.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
the diffrence is your views damage islam and put msulims off, mine dont. in a non muslim country you tell non muslims women shouldnt go mosques, it will damage islam and give media an excuse to attack Islam. Also it will put young Muslim sisters off who have a problem with Muslims, it will put them off Islam.
Your points lack wisdom , thats all. You use evidence out of context.
no you are not open, flexible....you have selective islam. you just take example of Hazrat Umar, and ignore example sof Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique (RA), Hazrat Usma, Hazrat Ali (RA) an dmost of teh classical scholars in our history. You use your little bit of evidence to argue your point and ignore the rest...that is selective Islam.
Also do you agree with points i hav elisted in teh above post..about what women cand do and need to do IN THE MOSQUE...as that finishes your agruments , full stop.
someone once told me that Muslims today are more concerned about appeasing the non-muslim than to follow the true message of Islam.
i personally don't see how allowing women to only attend mosques authorized by the ulema will damage Islam..
i also dont see why it would put young Muslim sisters off..
When it comes to prayers women are allowed to pray at home, where men have been commanded to attend the Mosque.
Also there an assumption that the women who do not attend the Mosque are being deprived other facilities available at a mosque, such as bayaans, educational sessions, keeping upto date with community affairs..
Thats a wrong assumption to make, The Tablighi brothers in my locality have regular sessions for the women. They have their bayaans, they have their Taalims. Okay its not at a mosque as our local Mosque will not provide a suitable environment, therefore it happens at someones house, with a women only prescence. Yes there are women scholars, yes there is a sense of community.
When couples go out in Jamaat for say 3 days, the men stay over at the mosque and the women at a house. Thats not to say the women who are performing their Ibadah in the homes are any less fortunate than the men who are in the Mosque. Now if the mosque provided two separate halls with separate ablution areas then there would not be a problem.
Okay the other side of things, please do not quote it as my version of Islam, but I find the practicality of women using the Mosque in the same way as men to be different for obvious reasons. Sisters are not expected to walk down dark roads to pray at the Mosque for Fajr, or late at night for Isha.
Yes if there is a reason for them to go, i.e. education, public announcements, bayaans, they're in a foreign area and need a place to pray, then yeh cool.
But all of the above is being catered for in the Houses of the Tablighi's.
To be perfectly honest, I believe the Tablighi women in our community are receiving more in terms of the above than what our local mosque is providing for the women.
Not only that, they hold a tight community, i.e. the sisters will meet wifes, sisters, daughters of people who their husbands brothers, fathers have the privalage of knowing.
Nah, sorry I'm failing to see how it damaging for Islam.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Yeah but what is the true message of Islam in regards to allowing sisters to attend mosque???
Seek and you shall find the answers to your question.
Back in BLACK
its not mandatory
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
you shouldnt stop them.
they will benefit 100% more than staying at home.
men are sexist, prejudice aginst women for no reason.
its sad.
and its not about pleasing non muslims even though image of islam in a non muslim country is important. the point is islam does not forbid them, teh scholars in our history never forbid them....all of a sudden tablighi's come out and say they should be discouraged......
how sad...
one reason why alot of women in society are not educated in islam is because they never been inside a mosque because their husbands and father forbid them.
the bayaans, mehfils, programmes, lessons, classe sof fiqh, aqeedah, tasawuff, modern day issues from world class scholars- you dont get that at home. alot of parents, men..also dont have the knowledge or may not be educated...so the sisters should suffer because of bad Muslim men
okay i kinda get your drifts about 'allowing' women to go to the Mosque.
in a sense its flirting with the notion of 'control', 'restrictions', basically keeping the sisters locked up..
again comes down to Education, as the Tablighi sisters are educated, they would not have a problem in that area. They would not see the need to go to the mosque as service are available in a more women friendly environment than their local mosque.
so if the women do not see the need, then their aint a problem.
If ur wife, sister wanted to go to the mosque, would it be wrong for you to ask 'why'?
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
yes you would. obviously they're not going mosque fopr a laugh but to attend jummah, attend a bayaan, class of fiqh, islamic studies, arabic, get involved in dawah, teach at the mosque, speak to sisters who need help, use the mosque facilities, library.....
when you go to the mosque, would u expect anyone to ask you why....its obvious isnt it.
why some men are sooo uncomfortable in women going to the mosques...im just baffled and saddened.
deleted
i agree with you 100%
No1 said anything about stopping them.
I think the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam knew better than you. He knew that it was more beneficial for women to pray at home even if that meant not reading salah in the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallams mosque with the Best of Creation as the Imam.
Actually I am not being selective, you are. I am saying both have validity. You are not prepared to entertain the practice of Hadrat Umar, nor the opinions of Hadrat Aisha and Hadrat Ibn Masud. By the way this is not a minority opinion. It should be noted that Hadrat Sawda and Hadrat Zaynab bint Jahsh both never left their homes after Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam left this world, not even for hajj. So the notion that women should stay at home is not entirely only resting on one man, and even it did we should remember that Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa salllam once mentioned to the effect that had there been a Nabi after me he would have been Ibn ul Khattab (Sayyidina Umar radhiyallahu anhu.)
As for my view damaging islam I dont really think so. There are a lot of things about islam that others can find offensive, even our kalima is the biggest offense. Should we stop saying it to others in order to not give islam a bad name. Editor I have said ALL that i need to on this topic. I am not being selective but am rather accepting the VALIDITY of both points.
Your fear that my stance makes for bad dawa is not my problem, nor does it hold much water with me. Alhamdulillah I am being open, pity you cant do the same brother.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i think ur getting upset for no reason
- namaz they can do that at home, they get the same reward
- dawah, the tablighi sisters are very active in their dawah..
- the tablighi sisters teach in the houses, do the fiqh, islamic studies are usually performed at a womens madrasah, Quran studies at home
- mosque facilities,.. libraries,.. im not sure of any other facilities in a mosque, im sure there are, but the women are getting all that already..
all of the above that youve mentioned editor bro, the tablighi women are not being deprived of.
if someone asked me, Id probably say its for prayers. There is nothing wrong with that. If they told me, why do you not pray at home, Id say its been commanded by Allah for me to pray at the Mosque, plus its 27 times more beneficial to me.
u see, there is not a problem with the tablighi system when it comes to women. Those who know little about Tabligh stir up a fuss for no reason.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Also a certain Sahabiya radhiyallahu anha mentioned to Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam to the effect that Oh Messenger of ALLAH salallahu alayhi wa sallam I love to pray behind you in the masjid.
Reply from Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam was that better for you is to pray in the darkest corner of your home.
Imagine how easy ALLAH has made reward for womenfolk. They get more reward reading at the corners of their homes, than they do reading in Masjid Nabwi salallahu alayhi wa sallam with Sayyidina RasulALLAH salallahu alayhi wa sallam as the imam.
Imagine the men today can never attain the reward of reading salah behind Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam, yet the women of the UMMAH still can receive more reward than reading in Masjid Nabwi with Sayyidina Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam as imam, simply by reading in your home.
Lol. Those who say i hate women or am anti woman are rong. In my understanding a womans prayer at home in this day and age is FAR SUPERIOR to the prayer of a man in a mosque.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
I never attend the Mosque for prayer
why should I if I can do that at home? :roll:
whenever I/women in my family go to Mosque its always either to attend a Islamic programme, meeting or an Islamic class
men who stop women from doing that have serious issues
MashaALLAH!
May ALLAh give her immense reward.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i know many tablighi sisters and they are not as you paint the picture.
So tablighi scholar ladies go to every house do they? mmmhhhh
how many lady scholars are out there who speak english?
alim course in a house? mmhhhh....
fiqh, tajweed, arabic in the house...if it happens its not much...and its depriving the women community of knowledge....
a big shaykh comes to the mosque...sorry , you're a woman, u cant go.
i could go on and on...but obviously you dont see the importance or the relevence, so i better stop
and for the sisters who are sooo unfortunate that they are not linked with TJ's...do they just suffer?
BUT at the same time if I wish to attend Mosque for prayer
no Tom, Dick and Harry have any right to stop OR DISCOURAGE me
sorry sis, medieval will discourage you, you're a woman, its better for you to stay at home :twisted:
have you not learnt anything yet...its not about reading your prayers at teh mosque..its alot more than taht, teh education, tarbiyyah, dawah...being part of teh community. the mosque is teh focus of the community and you dont want sisters to be a part of it!
If you got issues with women reading at home and that it is better for them to read at home then I advise you try and take the issue up with Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam, not me because Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam encouraged the women to remain at home and pray there.
Dont get me involved.
Btw revival editor u ever been on tv?
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
too bad him and other sexist men aint clued up on the saying of the Prophet (pbuh) who said that if ur women ask permission to o to the mosque DON'T stop them
but obvioulsy they think they know better :roll:
I think Sayyidina Umar radhiyallahu anhu knew hte application of the Holy Words better than you, so y did he stop the women. Y did Hadrat Aisha and Hadrat Ibn Masud stop them?
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
for crying out loud!!!!!!!!
do you read any of my posts. yes, better to read at home but they can come to the mosque if they wish to pray. also nobody can stop them going to the mosque to learn the deen, not even you! no matter how hard you try....
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