Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly, we should know what "bid'ah" means according to Islamic teaching. It is defined as: any invented way in religion that is aimed at worshipping or drawing closer to Allaah. This means anything that is not referred to specifically in Sharee'ah, and for which there is no evidence (daleel) in the Qur'aan or Sunnah, and which was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Companions. At the same time, it is quite obvious that this definition of religious inventions or innovations, which are condemned, does not include worldly inventions [such as cars and washing machines, etc. - Translator].
If your confusion has to do with an apparent contradiction between the hadeeth narrated by Abu Hurayrah and the hadeeth narrated by Jareer ibn 'Abdullaah, then let us examine these two reports and find out what they mean: Jareer ibn 'Abdullaah al-Bajali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Whoever starts a good thing and is followed by others, will have his own reward and a reward equal to that of those who follow him, without it detracting from their reward in any way. Whoever starts a bad thing and is followed by others, will bear the burden of his own sin and a burden equal to that of those who follow him, without it detracting from their burden in any way.'" (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, no. 2675. He said, This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth)
There is a story behind this hadeeth, which will explain what "whoever starts a good thing" means. Imaam Muslim reported this story from Jareer ibn 'Abdullaah, who also narrated the hadeeth itself. He said: "Some people from the Bedouin came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), wearing woollen garments. He saw that they were in bad shape and in desperate need, so he urged the people to give them charity. They people were very slow to respond, and it could be seen in his face (that he was upset). Then a man of the Ansaar brought a package of silver, then another came, and another and another, and his face was filled with joy. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Whoever starts a good thing in Islam, and others do likewise after him, there will be written for him a reward like that of those who followed him, without it detracting in the least from their reward. Whoever starts a bad thing in Islam, and others do likewise after him, there will be written for him a burden of sin like that of those who followed him, without it detracting in the least from their burden.'" (Reported by Muslim, no. 1017)
Further explanation may be found in a report recorded by al-Nisaa'i, also from Jareer ibn 'Abdullah, may Allaah be pleased with him, who said: "We were with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) early one day, when some people who were almost naked (not dressed properly) and barefoot, with their swords by their sides, came to him. Most, if not all of them, were of (the tribe of) Mudar. The Messenger's face changed when he saw how poor they were (i.e., he became upset). He went into (his house), then he came out and ordered Bilaal to give the call to prayer. He led the people in prayer, then he addressed them, saying: 'O people, "be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person, and from him He created his wife, and from them both he created many men and women, and fear Allaah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (do not cut the relations of) the wombs (kinship)" [al-Nisaa' 4:1]. "Fear Allaah, and keep your duty to Him. And let every person look to what he has sent forth for the morrow…" [al-Hashr 59:18]. Let a man give charity from his dinars, his dirhams, his clothing, his wheat or his dates - even if it is only half a date.' A man from the Ansaar brought a package which he could hardly carry in his hand, then another and another came, until there were two piles, of food and clothing, and I saw the face of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) beaming with joy. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Whoever starts a good thing in Islam will have his own reward and a reward equal to that of those who follow him, without it detracting in the least from their reward, and whoever starts a bad thing in Islam will have to bear the burden of his own sin and a burden equal to that of those who followed him, without it detracting in the least from their burden. (Reported by al-Nisaa'i in al-Mujtaba: Kitaab al-Zakaat, Bab al-Tahreed 'ala al-Sadaqah).
From the context of the story, it is clear that what is meant by the words "whoever starts a good thing (sunnah hasanah) in Islam" means: Whoever revives a part of the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or teaches it to others, or commands others to follow it, or acts according to it so that others see him or hear about it and follow his example. This is also indicated by the hadeeth narrated by Abu Hurayrah, may Allaah be pleased with him, who said: "A man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and he urged the people to give him charity. A man said: 'I have such-and-such,' and there was no person left in the gathering who did not give something in charity to him, whether it was a large amount or a little. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Whoever starts something good, and others follow his lead, will have a complete reward and a reward like that of those who followed him, without it detracting in the least from their reward. Whoever starts something bad, and others follow his lead, will bear a complete burden of sin, and a burden like that of those who followed him, without it detracting in the least from their burden. (Reported by Ibn Maaajah in al-Sunan, no. 204) It should be clear from the above, with no room for doubt, that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was not allowing innovation in matters of deen (religion), nor was he opening the door to what some people call "bid'ah hasanah," for the following reasons:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stated repeatedly that: "Every newly-invented thing is a bid'ah (innovation), every bid'ah is a going astray, and every going astray will be in the Fire." (Reported by al-Nisaa'i in al-Sunan, Salaat al-'Eedayn, Baab kayfa al-Khutbah). Reports with the same meaning were narrated via Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) by Ahmad, via al-'Irbaad ibn Saariyah by Abu Dawud and via Ibn Mas'ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) by Ibn Maajah. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to say, when beginning a khutbah (sermon): "… The best of speech is the Book of Allaah and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad. The worst of things are those which are newly-invented, and every innovation is a going astray…" (reported by Muslim, no. 867)
If every bid'ah is a going astray, how can some people then say that there is such a thing in Islam as "bid'ah hasanah"? By Allaah, this is an obvious contradiction of the statement and warning of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stated that whoever innovates something new in the deen (religion) will have his deed rejected, and Allaah will not accept it, as is stated in the hadeeth narrated by 'Aa'ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), who said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours that is not a part of it will have it rejected.'" (Reported by al-Bukhaari, Fath al-Baari, no. 2697). How can anybody then say that bid'ah is acceptable and it is permitted to follow it? When a person innovates something and adds to the deen something that does not belong to it, he is implying a number of bad things, each worse than the last, for example: That the religion is lacking, that Allaah did not complete and perfect it, and that there is room for improvement. This clearly contradicts the statement in the Qur'aan (interpretation of the meaning): "… This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion…" [al-Maa'idah 5:3] That the religion remained imperfect from the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) until the time when this innovator came along and completed it with his own ideas.
That the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was "guilty" of either of two things: either he was ignorant of this "good innovation," or he knew about it but concealed it, thus letting his ummah down by not conveying it. That the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), his Companions and the righteous salaf (early generations) missed out on the reward of this "good innovation" - until this innovator came along and earned it for himself, despite the fact that he should say to himself, "If it was truly good, they would have been the first to do it."
Opening the door to bid'ah leads to changing the deen (religion) and opens the way for personal whims and opinions, because every innovator implies that what he is introducing is something good, so whose opinion are we supposed to follow, and which of them should we take as a leader? Following bid'ah leads to the cancelling out of sunnah practices and the ways of the salaf. Real life bears witness that whenever a bid'ah is followed, a sunnah practice dies out; the reverse is also true.
We ask Allaah to save us from the misguidance of personal whims and from all trials whether they are open or secret. And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
That is the view of your favoured scholar that does not fit with the views of other scholars.
I prefer the more nuanced version that can be read here:
http://www.therevival.co.uk/static/articles/bidah.php
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
i prefare the view of the 4 imams compared to your scholars whos understanding isnt even in the same level of their feet
Imam Abu Hanifa said, "Cling firmly to the narrations and the
way of the Salaf and beware of the newly invented affairs, for all of
that is innovation" [Sawnul Mantaq wal kalam P.32 of Imam Suyuti.]
Imam Malik said: "Whosoever introduces into Islaam an innovation, which he
deems is good, then he has claimed that Muhammad (saws) has betrayed
(the trust of conveying) the Message. Read the saying of Allaah, the
Mighty and Majestic: 'This day I have completed your Religion for you,
and I have perfected My favor upon you, and I am pleased with Islaam as a
Religion for you.' [Surah Maa’idah: Ayah 3] So whatever was not (part
of) the Religion on that day, is not (part of) the Religion on this
day.[ Shatibi in AI-l'tisaam (1/29).]
Imam Malik said, "The last part of this ummah (nation) will not be rectified, except by
that which rectified its first part." [Majmu Fatawa (27/396) and Ighlaat
ul Lahfaan (1/200)]
Imam Malik said, "Everyone after the Prophet PBUH will have his saying accepted or rejected, not so the
Prophet PBUH". [Reported by Ibn Abdul-Barr in Jaami Bayaan al-Ilm
(2/91).]
Imaam Maalik (d. 179H) said, ‘The Sunnah is like the Ark of Noah. Whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever
refuses is drowned.’ [Quoted by Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah in
Majmoo’ ul Fataawaa (4/57).]
Ahmad ibn Hanbal said, "The foundations of the Sunnah with us are: Clinging firmly to what the
Companions of Messenger of Allah PBUH were upon, taking them as examples
to be followed, abandoning innovations, since all innovations are
misguidance". [Itiqad Ahle Sunnah wal Jamah by Laalikai 1/156]
Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said "Whoever rejects a hadith of the Messenger of
Allah PBUH is on the brink of destruction." [Tabaqaatul-Hanaabilah
(2/15) and by Ibn battah in al-Ibanatul-Kubraa (1/97) also [Ibn al-Jawzi
(p. 182)2)]
Imam ash-Shaafi (RH) reported a consensus among the scholars of the Sahaba, the Tabyeen and their followers that:
"If a sunnah of Allah's Messenger PBUH, becomes manifest to a person,
he does not have any choice but to follow it, regardless of what other
people say." [Quoted in Ar-Risaalah at-Tabookiyyah of Ibn ul Qayyim, Ibn
al-Qayyim (2/361) & Fulaani (p. 68)]
Imaam al-Barbahaari (d.329H) said, ‘‘Beware of small innovations, because they
grow and become large. This was the case with every innovation
introduced into this Ummah. It started as something small, bearing a
resemblance to the truth, which is why those who entered into it were
misled, and then were unable to leave it. So it grew and it became the
religion which, they followed, so they deviated from the Straight Path
and thus left Islaam". [Sharah As Sunnah No. 7 (Arabic No.5), Tabqaat
Hanbaliya (1/179) and authenticated by Albani in Hujjat Nabi (1/103) and
Manasik Hajj wa Umrah (1/43) Tabqaat Hanbaliya (1/179)]
Imaam al-Barbahaari (d.329H) said, "May Allah have mercy upon you! Examine
carefully the speech of everyone you hear from, in your time
particularly. So do not act in haste, nor enter into anything from it,
until you ask and see: Did any of the Companions of the Prophet PBUH
speak about it, or any of the (early) Scholars? So if you find a
narration from them about it, cling to it and do not go beyond it for
anything, nor give precedence to anything over it and thus fall into the
Fire.’’ [Sharah As Sunnah No. 8 (Arabic No.5), Tabqaat Hanbaliya
(1/179) and authenticated by Albani in Hujjat Nabi (1/103) and Manasik
Hajj wa Umrah (1/43) Tabqaat Hanbaliya (1/179)]
Ibn Qayyim said, "Righteous actions are only according to righteous intentions,
and a good intention does not make something which is futile correct.
This is because intentions alone cannot make an action correct, but
rather complying with the Sharee’ah (Prescribed Laws) must be added to
that". [Madaarijus-Saalikeen (1/85) of Ibn al-Qayyim ]
Abdullah ibn Masud RA said "Follow (the Sunnah) and do not
innovate, for you have been given that which is sufficient and every
innovation is misguidance" [Kitab ul Ilm (No. 54) by Abu Khaythamah,
Sahih by Albani.]
Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman RA said, "Every
act of worship which the Companions did not do, do not do it." [Al
Itisaam by Al Shatibi 1/418 also Amr bil Ittiba wa nahi Al Ittiba by
Suyuti 1/3, authenticated by Albani in Hujjat Nabi (1/100) and Manasik
Hajj (1/44)]
Abdullah ibn Umar RA said "Every Innovation
is Misguidance, even if the people consider it to be something good."
[Itiqaad Ahle Sunnah wal Jamah by Lalikai No. 126 also related by
al-Bayhaqee in al-Madkhal ilas-Sunan (no. 191) and also Ibn Nasr in
as-Sunnah (p. 24). Its isnaad (chain of narration) is Sahih.]
Abdullah
ibn Mas’ud (RA) said, ‘Moderation upon the Sunnah is better than
exertion in innovation.’ [Al-Amr bil-’Ittibaa wan-Nahi
anli-Ibtidaa’(1/2)]
Abul-Aaliyah (d. 90H) said, ‘You must
stick to the original state of affairs which they were upon, before they
are divided.’ [Al-Amr bil-’Ittibaa wan-Nahi anli-Ibtidaa’(1/2)]
Imaam
az-Zuhree (d. 125H) said, ‘The people of knowledge who came before us
used to say, ‘Salvation lies in clinging to the Sunnah.’ [Darimi 96,
Sahih Isnaad by Fawaz Ahmad.]
Al-Awza’e (d. 158H) said,
"Patiently restrict yourself to the Sunnah and do not go beyond the
limits held by the decisions of the Companions; and speak with what they
spoke with, hold their positions and avoid what they avoided. Hold to
the path of the pious predecessors (As-Salaf As-Saalih), for verily what
was sufficient for them is sufficient for you." [Itiqaad Ahle Sunnah
wal Jamah by Laalikai No. 315]
Sufyaan ath-Thawree (d.161H) said, ‘No (religious) word or action will be correct until it
conforms with the Sunnah.’ [Al-Amr bil-’Ittibaa wan-Nahi
anli-Ibtidaa’(1/2])
Imaam Sufyaan Ath-Thawree said,
"Innovation is more beloved to Iblees than sin, since a person makes
repentance from sin but does not repent from innovations (because he
thinks bid'ah is from the religion)". [Itiqad Ahle Sunnah wal Jamah by
Laalikai No. 238]
http://www.facebook.com/notes/worshippers-of-allah-the-one-and-only/bida...
Ibn Qayyim said, "Righteous actions are only according to righteous intentions, and a good intention does not make something which
is futile correct. This is because intentions alone cannot make an action correct, but rather complying with the Sharee’ah (Prescribed
Laws) must be added to that". [Madaarijus-Saalikeen (1/85) of Ibn al-Qayyim ]
see, you are ignoring all the evidence form the salaf and from the qur'an and sunnah in the link in order to favour the evidence you prefer (and taking out of context the views of the aimah, which are general statements and not quoting their specific contexts which are further lost through the translations).
Your quotes are nice and all but they are not always supportive of your position even if they are quoted in support of it.
The scholar qhose views I linked to quotes early books, early salaf and sahabah and ahadith too.
The difference is that you prefer to throw mud than accept that actual scholars have had differnt views on matters and this goes back to the early times.
(If fact I would suggest that your preferred interpretations are from later times when people thought that those actions learnt through the ways of ahlussunnah (ie copying tradition) may be wrong and jumped to books instead of looking to the sources of the ways of the ahlussunnah. )
You want a slagging argument between scholars.
The scholar that I quoted does not go against the imams. However it is ... weird... that you argue that he differs with them when your OWN view is that a scholar who has enough knowledge CANNOT follow the Imams but must have his own calculations... so you are taking different stances when they are convenient to you.
Either way, my link quoted from earlier sources that your quotes. I see that you are ignoring qur'an and ahadith (along with other scholars and historical books) quoted by the scholar and hiding behind quotes in order to support your position instead of actually considering the primary evidence.
Just because I linkted to the article instead of cutting and pasting it does not make your cut and pasts more valuable. However, just because its your way, I will do the same below. Going to the sunnah to prove that your understanding is wrong (note, I am note stating that the understanding of the early imams is wrong as I counter that it is not as you state, but in accordance to the views of the scholars that follow them that I have quoted.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The Sahabah's doing Bid'ah:
(1) Bukhari and Muslim relate from Abu Hurayra (Allah be well pleased with him) that at the dawn prayer the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said to Bilal, "Bilal, tell me which of your acts in Islam you are most hopeful about, for I have heard the footfall of your sandals in paradise", and he replied, "I have done nothing I am more hopeful about than the fact that I do not perform ablution at any time of the night or day without praying with that ablution whatever has been destined for me to pray."
Ibn Hajar Asqalani says in Fath al-Bari that the hadith shows it is permissible to use personal reasoning (ijtihad) in choosing times for acts of worship, for Bilal reached the conclusions he mentioned by his own inference, and the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) confirmed him therein.
Similar to this is the hadith in Bukhari about Khubayb (who asked to pray two rakas before being executed by idolaters in Mecca) who was the first to establish the sunna of two rak'as for those who are steadfast in going to their death. These hadiths are explicit evidence that Bilal and Khubayb used their own personal reasoning (ijtihad) in choosing the times of acts of worship, without any previous command or precedent from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) other than the general demand to perform the prayer.
From
http://www.therevival.co.uk/static/articles/bidah.php
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The Sahabah changing how they pray and it being approved:
Bukhari relates from Aisha (Allah be well pleased with her) that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) dispatched a man at the head of a military expedition who recited the Koran for his companions at prayer, finishing each recital with al-Ikhlas (Koran 112). When they returned, they mentioned this to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who told them, "Ask him why he does this", and when they asked him, the man replied, "because it describes the All-merciful, and I love to recite it." The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said to them, "Tell him Allah loves him." In spite of this, we do not know of any scholar who holds that doing the above is recommended, for the acts the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) used to do regularly are superior, though his confirming the like of this illustrates his sunna regarding his acceptance of various forms of obedience and acts of worship, and shows he did not consider the like of this to be a reprehensible innovation (bida), as do the bigots who vie with each other to be the first to brand acts as innovation and misguidance.
Further, it will be noticed that all the preceding hadiths are about the prayer, which is the most important of bodily acts of worship, and of which the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, "Pray as you have seen me pray", despite which he accepted the above examples of personal reasoning because they did not depart from the form defined by the Lawgiver, for every limit must be observed, while there is latitude in everything besides, as long as it is within the general category of being called for by Sacred Law. This is the sunna of the Prophet and his way (Allah bless him and give him peace) and is as clear as can be. Islamic scholars infer from it that every act for which there is evidence in Sacred Law that it is called for and which does not oppose an unequivocal primary text or entail harmful consequences is not included in the category of reprehensible innovation (bida), but rather is of the sunna, even if there should exist something whose performance is superior to it.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
now anyone with common sense would know who is more reliable one who learnt from those who learnt directly from the sahaba ra or the ones who learnt from a text book, lets not forget text books which contain information which were openly rejected by the first 3 generation
your scholars cant even get their aqeedah correct so what makes you think their fiqh would be any better
the reason why they differ with the classical scholars or islam in everything is because their main core the creed is corrupted to start with
for a guy who claims to follow classical islam doesnt even have any classical schoalrs to back it up ith but has abunch of modern ones ho ahve no reference of their islam from any quran hadith or classical scholars
nice try all these have already been refuted before you were even born
http://ahlusunnahwaljamaah.com/2011/01/02/a-critcal-look-at-some-hadith-...
even what asqalani really meant, which as lookingat quran and hadith and using it to make ijtihaad even hen muhammad sa as not in presense their are many hadith like this such as the famous case of asr time start
i can copy and paste it but i'll just get a single poing for now
The first reason is because bidah is only what is done after the
prophet’s death. While the prophet was alive and the shariah was not
complete it would be impossible for the sahaba to do what we call bidah
in the shariah, as the shariah was not even complete. Because in the
prophets time the shariah was not complete and bidah is only that which
occurs after his death hence the prophets warning about bidah only
refer to after the shariah had been completed (after his death). This is
why the sahaba knew that some of their own ijtihad could turn into the
Shariah if approved by Quran and/or Sunnah. As they understood the
prophets warning against bidah only referred to after his death.
so the sahaba ra knew while muhammad saw as alive if they did make a sugestion to him chances of allah or him accepting are their for allah would reject if it wasnt something to be added in islam which at that time was incomplete but bidah in every form as fully harram when islam was completed and looking at sahaba ra their bidah as more of a sugestion to muhammad saw as it ould alays be discovered and sometimes they were accpeted for the reason given sometimes rejected
the same thing as i mentioned in above post that hadith explanation is also refuted here
http://ahlusunnahwaljamaah.com/2011/01/02/a-critcal-look-at-some-hadith-...
pray as you seen me pray was referring to that certain ay of salah muhammad sa as teaching sahaba ra do at that time other times he used different methods
the article mentions regarding the hadith:
However what the Sufis do not understand is that even though these acts of worship where done by these sahaba before receiving the approval from Allah and His Messenger these acts can still not be called bidah for a number of very important reasons.
read article to understand why
Abd-Allah ibn Mas’ood said: “Follow and do not innovate, for everything has been taken care of, and you must follow the ancient way
(i.e., of the Salaf).” Ad-Daarimi in his Sunan.
after the religion of islam was completed after the final verse of the quran no sahaba ra made anymore sugestions for they knew no it has been completed and they must stick to only the ways allah has given now
so even if that sahaba ra did that it as while muhammad sa as alive and allah and his messenger saw accepted it, but once allah revealed the verse muhammad sa himself then no longer allowed this anymore for now islam as complete
Abd-Allah ibn Umar said: “Every bid’ah is misguidance, even if people think it is good.”
So now you are educated enough that you can not only decide what the shcolars really "meant" but also morequalified than these scholars that you can decide which are right and which are wrong?
No. It is a case that you favour the arguments of your preferred scholars and others favour other arguments.
Those arguments that convince you do not convince others and vice versa.
You see if your way of reasoning was correct, there would be no difference of opinion on any matter. But there is.
You will never accept the views of the "otherside" that is not in accordance with the scholars you prefer, no mater how strong it is, always preferring the views of your preferred shaykhs.
So we return to the original question - why are you arguing?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The prophet
made an over decision to NOT hold congregation during every night of ramadan. He deliberately took a break. He did not ask the sahabahs to continue with it while he 
took the break.
Hadhrat Umar (ra) still decided to make the congregation. Which is on every night. Which is not how the prophet
acted and there is no hadith from the prophet 
telling the sahabahs to do differently (other than the hadith where the prophet 
tells them to pray how they see him 
pray.)
Another issue is one of the zakaah.
Caliph Umar (ra) started a new practice of NOT paying zakaah to one of the 7(?) permitted groups and even though the prophet
used to give zakaah to to a specific people, Caliph Umar stopped this.
This is more than simply applying something done at the time of the prophet (saw).
Then there is the issue of import duties - Originally the Muslims did not have import duties for goods imported, but the Byzantines did, putting the Muslims at a disadvantage. Then the Muslims under Caliph Umar (ra) implemented those import duties on the byzantines. Then this expanded to everyone.
This was not something done at the time of the prophet
either.
Then there is Umar the 2nd, not strictly a from the sahidoon, but we all hold him in high regard. Before him, land taxes for conquered land now owned by Muslims Iraq were either 2,5 or 5% but for non Muslims on conquered land was 20%. Under him all conquered land, whether now owned by Muslims or not would all pay 20% (Khums).
Are all these not bid'ahs?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Caliph Abu Bakr (ra) did a new thing by nominating a successor. The prophet
did not nominate one.
Caliph Umar (ra) did a new thing by choosing a committee to choose a successor. The prophet
and Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) did neither.
According to some versions, the people of Madinah carried out a new action by polling the people of madinah to choose the successor to Caliph Umar (ra).
Go through the history of the sahabahs and you will see new things happening for the first time in Muslim history and we are all agreed that there were good things.
Good new things that propelled Islam.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
when matters of aqeedah is involved a person has to get it right and with halal and harram, its like a guy arguing with someone regarding to second hajj and the other says so now your qualified enough to declare it harram
this is not a matter of if eid is on friday what should we do regarding jummuah, or asr time
their is no difference of opinion in harram and halal
if you give proper evidence then it would be one thing, using verses of quran not even related to mawlid is another, allah sent sallam to khadija ra is this a valid reason to create a celebration for her
why am i arguing, the same reason why ahmed sirhindi argued against mawlid
It is proven in al-Saheehayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) led his companions in prayer (Taraweeh) for several nights, then on the third or fourth night he did not come out to them. When morning came he said: “Nothing prevented me from coming out to you except the fact that I feared that it would be made obligatory for you.”
Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1129. According to the version narrated by Muslim (761): “But I feared that night prayers would be made obligatory for you and you would not be able to do them.”
Offering Taraweeh prayer in congregation is something that is established by the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stated the reason why he did not persist in offering this prayer in congregation, which is that he feared that it might be made obligatory. This reason cased to be applicable after the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, because when he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, the wahy (revelation) ceased and there was no longer any worry that it might be made obligatory. Once the reason, which was the fear of it being made obligatory, disappeared with the cessation of the wahy, then the fact that it is Sunnah to offer this prayer in congregation resumed.
seeing how you yourself are not even aware of this matter properly how about finding out more info and then telling us properly
again these are general things, today rice costs 40 pounds back in the days it cost 20 pounds again what does this have to do with anything
before rasulullah saw died he gave the name of 3 sahaba ra who he would want to be the calipha after his death this was narrated by aisha ra
so already done by muhammad saw
the choosing of calipha ruling is well known, first a shura has to be held followed by a vote, the best example of this is the uthman ra and ali ra choosing after umar ra death when uthman ra won by having msot people vote for him
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/111836
for full details check the link so again nothing new added to religion in umar ra case
new things happen even today cigerette drugs and others, but the ruling always have to be based on quran and hadith which always has indirect ruling for the new things such as cigerette and drugs, but new innvoated rulin cant be created it has to be based on quran and hadith
nothing new has been added to islam
and it is proven through ahadith that the prophet
deliberately did not hold congregation on every night.
So while you may deny it, there is a change there.
There is no such thing as general things. It was the khilafah and the rightly guided caliphs and early jurists spent a lot of time justifying or attacking taxes for either being in acordance to Islamic law or not being in accordance to Islamic law. Tax is a big part of Islamic law (and Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah AFAIK was a master in the field of finance). Besides, from the famous questions on the day of judgement, most topics have one question, but finance has two - where it came from and how it was spent.
You should also class the use of guns as bid'ah, the rules of war are governed through the qur'an and sunnah and guns are a new thing that didnt exist in the time of the prophet (saw). Point of interest: There were some jannisseries who did not like the use of guns. They wanted to stick by the sword.
This is even more blatant than the previous rejections. KHUMS/2.5% IS A RELIGIOUS TAX. It started in the time of the prophet
where lands conquered paid 20%, lands owned by Muslims paid 2.5% and lands that were acquired through treaty paid what was in the treaty.
Now this was CHANGED for Muslim owned lands in Iraq from 2.5% to 20%.
A clear bid'ah.
But the scholars of the time considered it valid and allowed and we consider Umar ibn Abdul Aziz as one of the exemplary caliphs, one at whose time poverty was eradicated.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
erm... your view there does not follow what happened in early Muslims. Your link is not the best as it confuses matters by not being totally open with facts:
That happened afterwards.
After the passing of the prophet (saw), some ansar gathered and were in the process of electing a caliph from themselves. Hadhrat Umar (ra) and hadhrat Aby Bakr (ra) along with other sahabah went to stop them. This shows that there was a dispute over leadership.
In order to prevent those sahabah electing a leader which would then cause a divide, Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) proposed that Hadhrat Umar (ra) be nominated as Calip there and then so as to stop a secret bay'ah. Instead Hadhrat Umar (ra) gave bay'ah to Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra).
Then only afterwards did others give bay'ah.
There was no nomination, no committee and no agreement until after the bay'ah process started.
Going back a bit...
If this is the case, then Caliph Abu Bakr nominating and appointing a successor... that is different from how the prophet
did things. Once again, it becomes a bid'ah.
All 5 rashidoon caliphs were chosen in different and novel ways. You could call all ways 5 bid'ah. But you would NOT consider either of them wrong.
Hence there is something as a good bid'ah which is proven from the time of the sahabahs (if not earlier, in the time of the prophet (saw)).
At the time of the prophet (saw), the sahabah used to do new things which when approved by the prophet
became sunnah, such as payment for ruqya. Sahih Bukhari. A sahabi asked for payment for ruqya, other sahabahs disagreed, the matter was taken to the prophet (saw), who approved. It was not such a clear cut thing where all the sahabis agreed at the start, and even then the matter was taken to the prophet 
after this had been done instead of first.
The evidence is against you and the only way you can stick by your illogical stance is to exclude most historical events by some speciality, from this hadith that is in bukhari, to the selection of the caliphs, to the raising of import duties and changing of land taxes. At all these times new ideas were developed, new things done and they are all accepted as allowed, showing that there is such a thing as a good innovation.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I am sure you are aware of it.
At the time of the prophet (saw), a tribe that had affinity to the Muslims but had not accepted Islam yet used to come to the Muslims and the prophet
would give them alms.
They continued to come until the time of Hadhrat Umar (ra), who refused to give them anything.
There are more situations. During the time of Caliph Uthmaan (ra) people were promoted to prominent positions that the Prophet (saw), Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) and Hadhrat Umar (ra) had refused to appoint to prominent positions.
Caliph Ali (ra) even moved the capital away from Madinah.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
rasulallah saw didnt pray nawfal everytime either so does that mean the person rpaying it everytime is doing bidah, rasulullah saw didnt pray some sunnah prayers everytime does that mean a person is doing bidah by doing that, rasulullah saw always used miswak we use it at times does it mean im doing bidah by not following him in doing that rasulullah saw wore thum we wear other clothes again am i doing bidah, you see the problem here is the understading of general things here, even though rasulullah saw didnt pray taraweeh at all times in jamaah he didnt disallow others to do it, infact he rasulullah saw said:
al-Tirmidhi (806) narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of
Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam – i.e., Taraweeh – with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded as if he spent the whole night in prayer.”
now you tell me when rasulullah saw himself said congretion is better why are you now making it into something else with some enw explanation of this scenario
rasulullah saw himself said it is better in jamaah, so today we are all doing it in jamaah so we are following rasulullah saw advise of this hadith is this a bidah now?
just because rasulullah saw didnt do a nawfal or sunnah at all times doesnt mean its bidah becasue he rasulullah saw has not set a minimum or maximum in this, rasulullah saw prayed taraweeh in 8 but when asked about taraweeh he said pray in 2 as much as you want, so a person has no limits in taraweeh, even though rasulullah saw did 8 which lasted the whole night eh himself said you can do as much as you want this certian sunnah can be prayed as much or low as a person wants it has no limits, however if i said to you now so can we do fajr 2 by 2 now answewr is no for allah and his messenger saw have made it only 2 and then its finished
their are general things, car is a general innvoation not part of religion or anything just a general innvoation, so is the houses made with tin roof, new toys, plastic flower, paper flower paper plain, paper ball etc
anyway if a person comes witha bomb what will you do lift your shield up to protect yourself if you have a sword and with a group fighting man of machine guns and bombs again what will they run towards them and get shot and blown away
in salahuddin ayubis fight in third crusade one of the reason why salahuddin ayubis started off with a loss is because the enemies came with enw advanced weapans muslim never saw before so salahuddun ayubi had to create new weapans himself to match them and defeat them, during the siege of tyre the reason it failed was because the enemies built a new form of wall which couldnt be broken so what was salahuddin ayubi supposed to do, use his sword and just keep on wacking it until it broke, no he needed something new to deal with it, creating new weapons is nothing going against islam, with time new war tactics were out new weapons were created and new enemies were found, muhammad the conqueoror was mentione din hadith prophecised to be exact, when he invaded turkey it wasnt jsut with swords it was also with a new canonball which could smash through heavy walls, this is a man mentioned in hadith, it is funny how you find bidah in the religion to be sunnah when its harram, yet the bidah which are not bidah in religion to be disliked because theirs nothing wrong with it, as a scholar once said people of today find the sunnha to be bidah and the bidah to be sunnah we see a example of similar matter here
tax is a part of islam but some taxes can be changed for some have a certain limit to which it can minimum or maximum
the matter of khums is not simple it depends on the situation such as:
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/83746
imam shafi:
"An immediate zakat of 20 percent is due when one finds a
treasure trove that was buried in pre-Islamic times (N: or by
non-Muslims, ancient or modern) if it amounts to the zakat minimum (def:
h4.2) and the land is not owned. If such a treasure if found on owned
land, it belongs to the owner of the land. If found in a mosque or
street, or if it was buried in Islamic times, it is considered as a lost
and found article
allah further says in the quran
Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So
fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey
Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe."
LOOK.
If either of you stop replying, we won't think either have you have given in. No, we will just think you have been wise enough to end this pointless debate.
To everyone else, just because someone finally stops commenting, does not mean they don't have an answer. It just means they know they can't convince the other person, and are praying Allah guides them, as He guides us all. You do not have to believe the person who gets the last word, rather ask scholars, listen to talks, read books and make your own decision,
Now please, please please stop these "discussions".
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
what you said didnt mention that ali ra wasnt aware of this when it was happening this doesnt mean it never happened or you hinted towards that for you are only mentioning that part of the incident, when the fatwa was tating this it was mentioning the main ruling regarding this matter and the main bit that is used hwen electing a calipha
it was all based on islam and doesnt contradict
and umar ibn abdul aziz when amde the king he refused and told the people if you wan tme to become the caliph say yes if not i will step down people thought and decided he is the best to be caliph, again the islamic way of the quran and sunnah not a bidah of sufi
if that was the case rasulullah saw wouldnt say all bidah are astray and for hell
dont repeat the same nonsense over and over again as i said during the time of rasulullah saw the verse of the quran this religion has been completed hadnt been revealed so sometimes the sahaba ra did actions on their own ijtihaad thinking it is correct however allah would make muhammad saw find a way to find that out and then muhamamd saw by the will of allah would say if this act has been accepted by allah or not, sometimes it would sometimes not, however after the death of muhammad saw the religion was compelte and the sahaba ra no longer did this for muhammad saw wasnt alive to to declare this so theirfore they spread the hadith do not do bidah for it will be rejected so again get your facts right
again i go back to umar ibn al khattab ra scenario it was umar ra who gave the idea of hijab then allahd eclare dit in the quran so now tell me did umar ra innovate hijab?
and use this with the example of ruqya and see how it matches
what has ali ra got to do with bidah
did muhammad saw say a man had to rule from madinah? rasulullah saw himself said he wanted to rule in makkah not madinah but he had to choose madinah for certain reasons, a place to make the capital state of calipha is not based on where muhamamd saw did it but rather where the right place would be, otherwise muhamamd saw wouldve chose makkah the best of all cities not madinah the second best, when muhammad saw sent his governor to makkah he said i am sending you to my most loved land and the land which allah loves the most the people their are the people of allah and i never wouldve left that city if it wasnt for its people who drove me out and stayed their until i died, again this clearly shows muhamamd saw preference of makkah but he chose madinah for many reasons
anyway again capital state of calipha isnt based on where muhammad saw did it from for when ali ra was told this what you claimed rule from madinah because the other sahaba and muhammad saw did what did ali ra say, he said madinah no longer posseses those good features for him to do that, later on things got worse in madinah the people were not even supporting him to fight jihad, so he had to leave to iraq
where will imam mahdi make his capital tell me
so again you are using matters which have nothing to do with this title
in regards to the umar ra issue how about giving the exact reference
i can easily search it out but reference is better
That is not your standard for something being bid'ah.
Your standard is something new, not something that is counter to what was taught before. Different things. Stay consistent please.
Moving the darul Khilafah away was a new thing (but I have also addressed your other concern about doing something different from what was done before on the issue of alms to the tribe that had affinity with the Muslims that Hadhrat Umar (ra) stopped).
Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) resisted putting the qur'an into the form of a single manuscript, as it wasn't done in the time of the prophet (saw), but Hadhrat Umar (ra) considered it necessary. Later, in the time of Uthmaan this was further formalised by not allowing dialects. Later on, dots were added to the texts, later on the diacrritical elements to ease the non arabs. All new things.
You are ignoring what was done in the time of the salaf. By posting something that is not relevant doesn't hide that what was done was changed by the caliph of the time.
You do realise that you have been arguing against reading nawafil etc in celebration of the birth of the prophet (saw)? Now you are stating the exact opposite.
Once again, no mention of it being done EVERY night. Which it wasnt. ordering jama'ah every night was a new thing.
Are you saying that we should put our faith in something other than God? (PS I cannot provide a reference, but Salahuddin Ayyubi was a sufi. So were the Ottomans.)
You are now allowing for a special case for allowing new things - for jihad nontheless, which is a very important Islamic principle, considered by some as the 6th pillar. You are defending the use of new things in this religious duty.
Ive mentioned more than "issue", so I am not sure which one. but as you say, easy enough for you to look up, so please, but I suspect that it will not convince you as you will either change your standards ("its not against the sunnah" instead of "it is a new thing" or "it was a necessity" or "I do not consider this act to be a religious act" [when the truth is all acts have a religious dimention]).
It seems to me that for you to support the your position you have to ignore the whole of Islamic history, especially the early period.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
this is also the view of islam so im being consistant
making countries muslim countries after death of muhammad saw was also a new thing so what has that got to do with bidah same with moving the capital state this has no link to bidah something new is car so when has car become a religious thing, people rode horse then car then plains so these are new thing but what has that got to do with anything
again this has no link to bidah, as i mentioned in muhammad saw time muslims didnt fight many empires he didnt so is this bidah in religion even if it is a new thing it is not bidah in religion so the capital state from amdinah to kufa is no diffeerent, this shows again you kae big deal of nothing and make nothing of big deal
i asked for reference but seeing how your story goes, if a man is poor and i give him zakat and it is continued by my family then it is stopped by another member becasue now their rich it doesnt mean their goig n against me rather the obligation from allah to give them zakat is over, same with thisscenario f umar ra did stop im sure a reason liket his exists so this isnt bidah but again ruling of islam
while muhammad saw was alive quran was written on bones, later on books, the quran is called book of allah, it was always meant to be for the book, second the sahaba ra themsleves said they didnt write it in muhamamd saw time because their was no need as the prohpet of allah was still alive, however they then did because it was needed but muhammad saw did allow it as seen with the bone example, so again this is not bidah for this was something muhammad saw allowed to start with bidah is new innovation in religion, what your talking about is bidah in general, if i use your logic then even the car would be viewed as a bidah in religion
the use of dots in quran is not a bidah in religion but rather a bidah in grammer, language grammer is not a religious thing it is a general thing, arabic in quran is important but hwo that arabic is written is not, arabic is the official language of islam, and the best way to write arabic is the classic way, but in islam it does not say we are not allwoed to make reading arabic easier so this is not bidah in religion but in language and grammer, people create new language this is not bidah in religion, we create new grammer that is not bidah in religion
and the imam shafi quote i gave to you shows the minimum and maximum according to islam depends on the sitiation so just because it was used during umar ibn abdul aziz for the first time doesnt mean it was never in islam before that he umar ibn abdul aziz done it based on quran and sunnah second point rasulullah saw said follow my sunnah and that fo the rightly guided caliph
the first time muslims fought against muslim in battle was battle of jamal during that time ali ra gave the rulings on how to dela with these situation based on quran and hadith, now even if this situation was new the rulings ali ra gave wasnt it was from quran and sunnah but they were being used for the first time, now is this bidah? no for how can the quran and sunnah be bidah jsut becasue somehting is used for the first time doesnt make it bidah same with umr ibn abdul aziz
didnt i tell you not to twist things around and chage things about, you said in the previous psot that if a person prays every taraweeh in the mosque then this is bidah so i gave you this response, as for doing a action with the intention of mawlid i was and still against it because islam is against this
that post is not even related to mawlid so how did you get that conclusion
the answer to that is on the above quotation of mine you quoted, second if jamaah wasnt done what do you call the instruction muhammad swa giving in that hadith, praying with imam until he finishes meaning in jamaah in the mosque with imam
second muhammad saw himself led jamaah in the msoque the hadith i already shown, again so where did you get this from now muhammad saw leads jamaah of tarawih in the mosque and you say this
again think and read before you speak
although this had nothing to do with it muhammad saw said rely on allah on everything then tie the camel and rely on allah,meaning do your action and then its upto allah if it will be successfull or not
so if you want to turn your lights on what do you do just sit on the sofa and say allah will do it for me
i'll discuss this matter later in a new thread
no i said creating new weapons is not bidah in religion, so if a person creates a new weapon theirs nothing wrong with that uthman ra was the first calipha to use naval wars, again using naval wars is not a bidah in religion, it is simply a new tactic in jihad, and in islam tactic in jihad is not again a bidah is religion its jsut a general new thing used when needed in war
as i mentioned before bidah in religion is harram not bidah in general otherwise car would be harram if i sue the logic you are in this matter now regarding jihad
at the same time i said in another psots if a new ruling was created for jihad not from islam then that would be bidah
well the umar ra situation has been dealt with in the other thread as for this case without islamic history we wouldnt know the life of muhamamd saw either
so again you prove nothing
you can continue with your new celebration wha tis it this time eid e plant mawlid e tree
milad un sky
I see the Eid of Milad Un Nabi trouble you greatly.
Mawlid Mubarak.
PS AFAIK planting trees is encouraged in Islam and AFAIK a sunnah. Do not mock it.
Your arguments against bid'ah are flawed as your mention of OTHER innovations shows how something being innovative in and of itself does not make it evil and the sahabahs did not consider it so either. That is precisely my point.
Yet you fail to see the true logic in what you post.
In the actions of the sahabahs we have innovations that were accepted as good things in their own words. I am unsure if they also stated that an innovation was allowed through the progress of technology or strategy. So in this case, I will accept the approval of the concept of a good innovation over simply innovation through change in circumstances
I am not sure if you have handled the inovation of import duty.
On the issue of Salahuddin tying his camel, that would be to take the classical weapons and relying on God, not just sitting at home. Instead of that, he innovated and succeeded.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
planting tree is encouraged celebrating it is not
same with mawlid celbrating it is not stated, but fasting ocne a week on monday because muhanmmad saw was born is, if a person says i will eat a khazoor for the birthday of muhammad saw for his brithday because of this ahdith will it be correct not ebcasue even if eating khazoor is sunnah this has no link to this hadith this is hwo celebrating is, celebrating mawlid has no link here rather fasting once a week on monday is a compeltely different matter
my view on bidah is based on the classical scholars yours is based on nothing,
infact you didnt know something as basic as salatul duha how can you understand the mroe advanced thing like this
yesterday you were caliming a sunnha to be bidah and today you are trying to teach me something far more advanced then that
you cant even back anything up even the definition of bidah using a single clasical schoalrs you use a bunch of modern ones who are not even worht the dirt of the feet of the 4 imams
if i handled the innvoation import duty id do to the sufis and shias what ali ra did to the khawarij in nahrawan and how hea dealth with ibn sabas followers
its obvious you never learned about salahuddin ayubi but mustve read about him on wikipedia
for if you did then you would know in siege of jersuselam using swords was useless in first part of abttle it was all about mangonel, how on earth can a sword break a wall if he kept on using his sword then his sword wouldve broke over and voer again and it would do nothing to the walls of jeruselam this is why he smashed the walls with mangonels and then found the entry
jihad is not based on sword and shield it is much more then that, some jihad required building of bridges to get across, so sword is not enough to win jihad you need a brain aswell, its no surprise to see why sufis are failures in jihad
again this shows you learnt nothing from the case of salatul duha if you did you wouldve done your research before speaking
If you do not accept that someone doing a good act on a weekly basis as copying of the prophet
fasting on a weekly basis is allowed, I doubt we can ever agree. You add specifics and conditions where there were none before.
You see, your way ignored the way of the prophet
and the way of the sahabahs. I cannot convince you and it is probably best to no longer argue for the sake of it.
But when your logic fails, you add exceptions of "it was necessary", "it lead to victory" or "its a secular matter, not one to do with Islam, event hough it was ordered by the amirul mu'mineen".
You will never accept the basis of that hadith even though it specifies a religious action, specifies it is repeated and it specifies that it is due to the day the prophet
was born.
You state many new things that were done after the prophet
yet you fail to comprehend how this destroys your own position that new things are not allowed. No logic I provide can get through to you when you acknowledge new things happening but do not understand the impact of that and how it destroys your total argument.
I cannot add anything beyond the words of the qur'an and the hadith and the history of the salaf saliheen, which has not convinced you.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
their is nothing wrong with doing something in a weekly bases, if a person uses the jummuah on friday as evidence that we can create a new dua for aadam as and do that every week then this will not be valid, for praying jummuah and doing this action on aadam as is 2 completely different things, so this is how mawlid is fasting once a week and celebrating something is 2 compeltely different things something you fail to understand
your way is to take a hadith and twist it, such as using a hadith on praying to show you can fast, use a hadith that says to do jihad and claim it says to do the opposite, a hadith which says to do hajj you will use this is a evidence that proves you can do a eid inside the mosque, and when you see a hadith oin fasting you will use that to claim you can innovate a new worship act in the religion
someone who doesnt have the common sense to sue their brain to see the hadith on muhammad saw reading salatul duha just 3-4 spaces below the current one they read for them to say this is funny
first of all we have seen you do not use the definition of bidah of the sahaba ra, like a modernist you have your own scholars who base their opinion not on quran and sunnah but whims and desires
your definition of bidah who is it based on, which ahdith verse of the quran share it here, so far its based ona scholar whos views are opposite the prophet saw and sahaba ra, this is clearly proven by 2 simple hadith i posted the ibn umar ra one and the abdullah ibn masud ra one
foe example you claim a person wearing shoes is a bidah, it is something new so its bidah in religion this clearly shows your lack of knowledge
whjat hadith, all you do is say a hadith said this, a hadith saif that, even i can say a hadith says sufis are army of dajjal, but if a person was to look for that they wouldnt find it, same with you
second as seen with the ashoora scenario muhammad saw stated the reasons why we fast on that day, but you created a new lie on why we do it not stated by muhamamd saw or his sahaba or the first 3 generations, so with this it showed right from the begining your a liar and you further proved this when you tried to twist my psots around and when i caught you you claimed it was only a mistake, rather then doing all thsoe innovated dhikr how about learning to speak the truth first
new things that do not contradict the religion, such as new prophecies were completed, new babies were born, new caliphs came, calipha was destroyed, calipha will return, new people died, new countries were discovered, new coutnries were invaded, new swords were made, new houses were built, new glass and paltes were made, so what what has this got to do with religion, none of this is innovation in the religion these are general things that happened in life, if i use your logic a person going to a new country after the death of muhamamd saw is a bidah in religion which shows again your lack of understanding, for going to a new coutnry has nothing to do with relligion, ali ra faced muawiyyah ra making it a new experiance, but in the hadith muhammad saw said if it has to be done then ti ahs to be done and ali ra was in teh right, so again even though it was a new thing that ahappened after the death of muhamamd saw the hadith of muhamamd saw show that it is allowed to do this meaning in islam this is allowed but it happened for the first time after the death of muhammad saw, after death of muhammad saw new houses were built by people becasue their houses broke down or needed more space, so what are you gonna say those are innovaton in the religion
again this shows why not you but why your teachers equally need to be educated in islam, for they create people like you and you go on to spread this corruption further with the corrupt knowledge you got from them
as abdullah ibn masud ra said every innovator from small have the result of the khawarij becoming a major problem
again dont use this typical sufi tactics of this goes against your own argument, for it doesnt got againt my arguement as i proved here
this proves how your understanding is flawed for for you someone building a new house after the death of muhammad saw is bidah in religion which again proves one this and one thing alone
bad influence creates bad results
and with that i end with this 2 hadith
Abdullaah ibn `Umar (radiyallaahu `anhumaa).
Naafi` narrated that a man sneezed beside Ibn `Umar and said: “Praise
be to Allaah, and peace be upon the Messenger of Allaah (Al-Hamdulillaah was-Salaamu `alaa Rasoolillaah).” Ibn `Umar said:
“I do say that praise be to Allaah and peace be upon the Messenger
of Allaah, but this is not how the Messenger of Allaah taught us! He
taught us to say (after sneezing): “Praise be to Allaah in all
situations (Al-Hamdulillaahi `alaa kulli haal).”[7]
their is nothing wrong with doing something in a weekly bases, if a person uses the jummuah on friday as evidence that we can create a new dua for aadam as and do that every week then this will not be valid, for praying jummuah and doing this action on aadam as is 2 completely different things, so this is how mawlid is fasting once a week and celebrating something is 2 compeltely different things something you fail to understand
your way is to take a hadith and twist it, such as using a hadith on praying to show you can fast, use a hadith that says to do jihad and claim it says to do the opposite, a hadith which says to do hajj you will use this is a evidence that proves you can do a eid inside the mosque, and when you see a hadith oin fasting you will use that to claim you can innovate a new worship act in the religion
someone who doesnt have the common sense to sue their brain to see the hadith on muhammad saw reading salatul duha just 3-4 spaces below the current one they read for them to say this is funny
first of all we have seen you do not use the definition of bidah of the sahaba ra, like a modernist you have your own scholars who base their opinion not on quran and sunnah but whims and desires
your definition of bidah who is it based on, which ahdith verse of the quran share it here, so far its based ona scholar whos views are opposite the prophet saw and sahaba ra, this is clearly proven by 2 simple hadith i posted the ibn umar ra one and the abdullah ibn masud ra one
foe example you claim a person wearing shoes is a bidah, it is something new so its bidah in religion this clearly shows your lack of knowledge
whjat hadith, all you do is say a hadith said this, a hadith saif that, even i can say a hadith says sufis are army of dajjal, but if a person was to look for that they wouldnt find it, same with you
second as seen with the ashoora scenario muhammad saw stated the reasons why we fast on that day, but you created a new lie on why we do it not stated by muhamamd saw or his sahaba or the first 3 generations, so with this it showed right from the begining your a liar and you further proved this when you tried to twist my psots around and when i caught you you claimed it was only a mistake, rather then doing all thsoe innovated dhikr how about learning to speak the truth first
new things that do not contradict the religion, such as new prophecies were completed, new babies were born, new caliphs came, calipha was destroyed, calipha will return, new people died, new countries were discovered, new coutnries were invaded, new swords were made, new houses were built, new glass and paltes were made, so what what has this got to do with religion, none of this is innovation in the religion these are general things that happened in life, if i use your logic a person going to a new country after the death of muhamamd saw is a bidah in religion which shows again your lack of understanding, for going to a new coutnry has nothing to do with relligion, ali ra faced muawiyyah ra making it a new experiance, but in the hadith muhammad saw said if it has to be done then ti ahs to be done and ali ra was in teh right, so again even though it was a new thing that ahappened after the death of muhamamd saw the hadith of muhamamd saw show that it is allowed to do this meaning in islam this is allowed but it happened for the first time after the death of muhammad saw, after death of muhammad saw new houses were built by people becasue their houses broke down or needed more space, so what are you gonna say those are innovaton in the religion
again this shows why not you but why your teachers equally need to be educated in islam, for they create people like you and you go on to spread this corruption further with the corrupt knowledge you got from them
as abdullah ibn masud ra said every innovator from small have the result of the khawarij becoming a major problem
again dont use this typical sufi tactics of this goes against your own argument, for it doesnt got againt my arguement as i proved here
this proves how your understanding is flawed for for you someone building a new house after the death of muhammad saw is bidah in religion which again proves one this and one thing alone
bad influence creates bad results
and with that i end with this 2 hadith
Abdullaah ibn `Umar (radiyallaahu `anhumaa).
Naafi` narrated that a man sneezed beside Ibn `Umar and said: “Praise be to Allaah, and peace be upon the Messenger of Allaah (Al-Hamdulillaah was-Salaamu `alaa Rasoolillaah).” Ibn `Umar said:
“I do say that praise be to Allaah and peace be upon the Messenger
of Allaah, but this is not how the Messenger of Allaah taught us! He
taught us to say (after sneezing): “Praise be to Allaah in all
situations (Al-Hamdulillaahi `alaa kulli haal).”[7]
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