The Muslim Ummah
Sectarian violence persists to this day from Pakistan to Yemen and is a major element of friction throughout the Middle East
Battle of Siffin
May–July 657 CE) occurred during the First Fitna, or first Muslim civil war, with the main engagement taking place from July 26 to July 28. It was fought between Ali ibn Abi Talib and Muawiyah I, on the banks of the Euphrates river,
Following the controversial murder of Uthman ibn Affan, Ali had become Caliph but struggled to be accepted as such throughout the Muslim Empire. Muawiyah, the governor of Syria, was a kinsman of the murdered Caliph, and wanted the murderers brought to justice. He considered that Ali was unwilling to do this so Muawiyah rebelled against Ali,
The battle and arbitration served to weaken Ali's position, but did not resolve the tensions that were plaguing the empire. To the Shia, Ali ibn Abi Talib was the first Imam. To Sunnis, Ali ibn Abi Talib was the fourth Rashidun Caliph, and Muawiyah the first Caliph of the Ummayyad dynasty.
Battle of Basra
The Battle of Basra (also known as the Battle of the Camel or Battle of Jamal) was a battle that took place at Basra, Iraq in 656 between forces allied to Ali ibn Abi Talib (Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, Commander of the Faithful)
and forces allied to Aisha (widow of Mohammad, and Mother of the Believers
In the war, Aisha accompanied her army in her camel-litter.
Professor Leila Ahmed claims that it was during this engagement that Muslims fought Muslims for the first time.[21] Battle ensued and Aisha's forces were defeated. Aisha directed her forces from a howdah on the back of a camel; this 656 AD battle is therefore called the Battle of the Camel.
The combat had lasted 110 days in total.
End of the battle
Marwan ibn al-Hakam shot his own Muslim general
Yeh hai aap ki so called ummah
I dont see how that proves anything.
Even siblings bicker. yet they remain family.
People even have differences of opinion.
It seems that you have come across this information for the first time, which is surprising considering your claims that you were brought up as Muslim.
Since you are not a part of this ummah, I dont see why it bothers you.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
It proves that this Ummah was never united from the start
some take revenge some never speak to each other but this is more then that
Muslims should never have a difference of opinion in religion and religious matters like day of Eid because it's the true faith and the people are on seerat -e-mustaqeem the true path
I was bought up as a Sunni Muslim
My English is not very good
Says a non Muslim.
Let those with a greater understanding of Islam - Muslims worry about such stuff.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You would never understand the greatness of Unity.
Death is the end of time. Not the end of Life.
Smile
Salam
Lolly is right.
Muslim history after the death of the Holy Prophet does not look very good.
There was no unity among Muslims. The Prophet had predicted this. We all know that he said that you will be divided into 73 groups. Only one party will be on the straight path of God. The rest will all be thrown in the fire of hell because they chose to follow Satan and rejected God's way.
Omrow
Here are a few more examples
Muslim countries in the middle east are on fire, mad dictators don't want to let go of power despite being in power for 30 40 years, on one cares about the loss of life
The Saudi–Yemeni War was a war between Saudi Arabia and Yemen fought in 1934. The total number of losses reached 2,100 by the end of the war. where was the UMMAH?
The North Yemen Civil War was fought in North Yemen between royalists of the Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen and factions of the Yemen Arab Republic from 1962 to 1970 100,000 dead, where was the UMMAH?
Black September in Arab history and sometimes is referred to as the "era of regrettable events." It was a month when Hashemite King Hussein of Jordan moved to quash the militancy of Palestinian organizations and restore his monarchy's rule over the country the violence resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian. 3,400–20,000 Palestinians killedArmed conflict lasted until July 1971 with the expulsion of the Palestine Liberation Organization and thousands of Palestinian fighters to Lebanon, where was the UMMAH?
The Lebanese Civil War was a multifaceted civil war in Lebanon. The war lasted from 1975 to 1990 and resulted in an estimated 150,000 to 230,000 civilian fatalities. Another one million people (a quarter of the population) were wounded, and today approximately 350,000 people remain displaced. There was also a mass exodus of almost one million people from Lebanon. where was the UMMAH?
Civil war in Iraq 2006 2008
100,000 Sunnis killed by Shia militia and security forces
150,000 Civilians killed by Sunni insurgents
Ethnic cleansing of Sunni communities in Baghdad where is the UMMAH?
In 2010 Saudi asked the US to attack Iran because it did not want a majority Shia country to become a new clear power
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran
I can't see any itehad
Which party is that?
My English is not very good
Not yours. you are hellbound.
and Lebanon is not an exclusively Muslim country.
Take that out and the overall death count in those conflicts is not really that high
Ummah does not mean no violence - even brothers and family members kill each other.
You can remain outside the ummah if you want. you are not wanted anyway.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Well Lollywood, believe it or not most Muslim scholars say exactly the same things, as do most Muslims, we want there to be strong community and strong Ummah. It's up to the citizens and sometimes the ordinary civilians to stand up for their brothers and sisters in faith, and in humanity.
Interestingly, at my uni there was a collection to provide the Syrian people with food and warmth over the winter, it's during moments like this when I've felt that: "Yes, there is an Ummah after all."
My question to you is, why do YOU care if there is or isn't an Ummah? What are YOU going to do about it?
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
That's not a very nice thing to say as a Muslim
That's not the point, the point here is that it was fellow Muslims killing one and other
Your wrong, Ummah is suppose to be united and peaceful
This Ummah does not exist because it's broken into many bits
SUNNI then which sunni Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali, Maliki
WAHABI
they don't do khatam and milads
SHIA then which Ismaili, Rizvi, Zahidi, Jafri
they add un- wali-ul-lah to the Kalma and they abuse Abu Bakr, Umar Farooq and Aisha
AHMEDIYA they are not evan conceded Muslim
In the UK people do not pray in the same masjid as one and other example this masjid is for the Arab Muslims, this masjid is for the African Muslims, this Masjid is for the Pakistani Muslims- then this Masjid si for the Sunni, this masjid is for the wahabi, this masjid is for the Shia then they give fatwas of kuffar against one and other,
when ever the shia's to their matami jaloos if anything bad happens the Sunnis automatically get the blame for it, is this your UMMMAH
Remain outside of what? it does not exist
My English is not very good
How can they? the sunni and the shia have a history of killing one and other
Many non Muslims give charity but that does make them one ummah
Because Muslims lie when they say stuff like Hum Aik Hein (we are united) just look at the sunni shia killings in Iraq
My English is not very good
Of course it exists; we are united under the flag of la ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
No sorry, because the Shia Muslims add un- wali-ul-lah onto it
My English is not very good
If it doesnt exist I dont see why it bothers you.
you are a self proclaimed outsider. It doesnt apply to you.
Worry about things that matter to you.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Why are murtads killed in Muslim countries? why does it bother them that someone has left Islam?
I'm not an outsider because I'm an Ex Muslim
Then why do people watch the world news?
My English is not very good
During the time of the Prophet (pbuh) there was NO such thing as Sunni/Shia was there?
To be honest what it your point in this debate? What are you saying we should do? Are you saying that we should put aside our differences? If so then I and many other Muslims agree with you.
But you haven't answered my question why do you actually care whether or not Muslims are one Ummah? Would you stop caring if Muslims say that they are not united?
Typically, you misunderstood my point about charity- it shows how Muslims are united and prepared to help one another. There will be bad apples who don't but the vast majority of citiznes and people will be united and put their faith, brotherhood and similarities before their differences.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
The point is that the Ummah got divided if Islam is the true religion then why is the ummah so divided?
Balochistan province wants freedom from Pakistan
What i'm saying is that this Ummah does not exist
The Ahmedi are not conceded Muslim, recently a fatwa was given against Shezan juice Molvis said that we should not drink shezan juice because its produced in a factory that is owned by an Ahmedi Muslim, how stupid is that
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIFv7ez44cU[/video]
Its not about caring its about a lie Muslims are not united
I think you misunderstood my point just because someone gives charity does not make them one
Ok, if Muslims are one then why don't Sunni Muslims pray behind a Shia imam and Shia Muslims pray behind a Sunni imam, let Ahmedi Muslims do the Jamaat and pray behind them
The vast majority spread fitna among each other
My English is not very good
If you think to be part of a true faith requires the faith to have perfect followers of the faith then you are deluded. The whole point of religion is to guide the misguided essentially, so they're bound or prone to make mistakes. The premise of your argument is that there is no ummah because there has been problems, you try to back this claim by saying that there can only be an ummah if there are no problems. I think your confusing unity with ummah, there is definitely an ummah that exists, whether it is when we go to our Friday prayers and greet each other as brother or on the day of eid this is clear example of the ummah. Perhaps in the day and age we live in there is no unity but you cannot judge a religion purely based on arguably the worst followers of it rather you judge it on its fundamentals and its impact. Islam has provided the world with some of the best scientists, mathematicians etc..i suggest before you try and remove the twig out of somebody else's eye you remove the log out of your own.
p.s. this forum the fact that so many Muslims are gathered talking to each other based on the fact they are muslims shows that an ummah exists today whether you like it or not
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
Let me ask you something- what would a united Ummah look like to you?
If you go on Hajj or Umrah, you will see how united and universal Muslims are. Purely because YOU don't think theyy're united that doesn't mean there is no ideal that the Prophet(pbuh) adivsed on many years ago.
Mate all you seem to do is misquote and quote from wrong sources and present this as the mainstream Islamic view. It's cheap and not clever.
How do you know that the vast majority spread fitna? If you come outside the Daily Mail bubble, you'll realise that the majority do not spread fitna, you've done more of that through this topic, with all due respect.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
I mean they should not twist the faith in many sects
So which fiqa's are misguided?
Ummah is about unity, how can you have unity when the Shia add to the kalima they pray differently they dont lift the sahadat finger during atta hiyat they open fast at a different time, they allow temporary mutah marriages, they hate on some of the sahabas they hate on ummul umineen Aisha
The Ahmedi Muslim are not conceded apart of the Ummah they're not even conceded Muslims they’re loving and peaceful
At Friday prayers Sunni's greeting Sunni’s Shia's greeting shia's its never Sunni greeting Shia or Shia greeting Sunni
Shia's get blamed for killing Ali and Hussain that was not in this day and age, invader Bin Qasim was killed by his own khalifa and that was not in this day and age
[/quote]
Most are sunni on here that's why
My English is not very good
No more sunni no more shia
That's like Majboori ka naam shukria I don't know it in english
Look at Pakistan people are taken off buses and shot because of their ethnicity
wrong sources?
I'm from a Muslim family
I haven’t because these wars did happen between Muslims
My English is not very good
There are groups in everything.
Christians are divided. But they're still Christians.
British People are divided. But they're still British.
Schools and education around the world is different, but it's still education and learning.
Point is - everything is divided and labelled, but it defines us and makes us who we are today. Without it, we would all be the same, which would make life pretty boring. Being different is what makes it special, and it doesn't make it any less of a family or a Ummah.
Like tpos said: 'We all unite under the flag of La ila ha illah hu Muhammadur Rasulullah.'
Death is the end of time. Not the end of Life.
Smile
I dont think they fight like musllms do on Religious issues AFAIK
Are they?
That’s a different thing
Religion should not be like that
No because shia Muslims add to the kalima, Ahmedi Muslims are not apart of the ummah
My English is not very good
Most are sunni on here that's why[/quote]
Some people dont consider certain groups of shia as muslims including people amongst the shia sect, there is bound to be divisions and there is bound to be disagreements it is a part of human nature. I think you're seriously confused with the concept of the ummah and the concept of unity... perhaps our current ummah is a bad one, no doubt it is in a very bad state but that doesn't mean one doesnt exist. I would fall underneath the branch of sunni islam and my best friend is a shia muslim i embrace him on jummah like i embrace a sunni brother so please dont tell me sunnis only hug sunnis and shia only hug shia, your preconceptions are blinding your vision.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
That proves my point the Ummah does not exist
It should not be like that with Islam because its the "sacha deen" "deene haq"
I don't think its going to get any better
[/quote]
Do you and your Shia friend pray at the same mosque or do you meet each other afterwards?
My English is not very good
The saved sect is Shias Muslims, because they remained true to sunnah.
I am Shia. I love Imam Ali.
Shia mean "party", or "ally", of Ali.
According to hadith, Prophet (pbuh) said, Ali and his shias will be saved.
Imam Ali was the legitimate successor. He was designated by the Prophet himself.
But when the Prophet died, muslims did not give Ali his right to rule.
He remained patient. He did not uprise. He did not fight for his right.
He was given his right to rule 30 years late.
All this is in sunni books of history and hadith.
http://www.al-islam.org/
Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".
www.presstv.ir
No it doesn't mean that
said there would be divisions so there is if anything that proves that he 
taught the haq
The prophet
Me and my friend pray salah together he lives at home and I have prayed in his home
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
It's actually really really annoying now how you're breaking down the posts and not really thinking of your own arguments.
The Muslim Ummah IS united. We all accept that there is one God, and Muhammed
is the final messenger of Allah. Anyone who doesn't believe that isn't a Muslim.
Full stop.
Lay off. And do something productive instead of making rubbbish points. Learn French.
Death is the end of time. Not the end of Life.
Smile
So Ahmedi Muslims are apart of the Ummah? they accept that there is one God, and Mohammed
is the final messenger of Allah but they’re still considered kafir
My English is not very good
and you know wrong.
Look at christian history. Read it. it is brutal. It is because of how brutal it is that some europeans decided they were better off without religion.
There is the crusade where they got lost and ransacked a different church. there are many countless wars. No one of a different affiliation was accepted on the land of others until a good few centuries of murder and war.
Many European wars were based on the lines of different sects. No wonder that some christians preferred to be under the protection of the Ottomans than to be left at the mercy of the catholics.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Lolywood, the point is simple, it's not your call to decide what is and what doesn't class as unity, it is not your prerogative to set conditions and decide what the Ummah is or should be like, because they are unrealistic and frankly because you're not part of it- so you can't make the rules! ;p
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
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