Brain Scanners Can See Your Decisions Before You Make Them
You may think you decided to read this story -- but in fact, your brain made the decision long before you knew about it.
In a study published Sunday in Nature Neuroscience, researchers using brain scanners could predict people's decisions seven seconds before the test subjects were even aware of making them.
The decision studied -- whether to hit a button with one's left or right hand -- may not be representative of complicated choices that are more integrally tied to our sense of self-direction. Regardless, the findings raise profound questions about the nature of self and autonomy: How free is our will? Is conscious choice just an illusion?
Brain Scanners Can See Your Decisions Before You Make Them
Published by You on 14 April, 2008 - 03:19
Yes, we've all seen Minority Report.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Even I could predict whether a person would hit a button with their left or right hand. I'd just need to figure out if they're right or left handed first.
"There was always time,
But You Left It All Behind....... " -> AdeelAkhtar.co.uk
Hang on! The study was as simple as pushing buttons with one of your hands! So, how can you apply that to other more complex stuff?
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
I was discussing something similar with my non-Muslim friend, and he was arguing that there is no such thing a free-will:
Since all we have is our genetic make-up and our past experiences to go on, we would always make the same decision if we were put in exactly the same situation. There is no possibility that we would make a different decision if put in the same position. If there were any variables (i.e. hindsight) then that would be different. But there isn't. Therefore, every decision we have ever made and will ever make in the future, is 'already' made for us, by a combination of nature and nurture.
This view-point (which I can't really find an argument against) opens a whole can-of-worms for both the believer and the non-believer. As a Muslim, we are required to believe in pre-determinism "the ink is dry" etc, but doesn't that necessarily mean we are not responsible for our actions? Since Allah (swt) is All-Powerful, then wasn't it really Him who made the decision for us (When I throw a rock, it is Allah (swt) who throws the rock)?
And for a non-believer, it seems to suggest that there is some sort of 'meta-narrative' that is unalterable by us, both as individuals and collectively. How can they marry this with the belief in random evolution of the universe and all existence?
Don't just do something! Stand there.
That is not the case. We believe we have a choice about what we do, and that God already knows what we will do.
If you consider that "Time" itself is a creation, outside its realm there is no such thing before and after.
As for your friends views, I probably hold the opposite - you (as creation) do not know how a person will react before the reaction. There may be a good assumption, but never accurate. If I am asked "how will you react in this situation", my reply is generally "I don't know." simply because I don't.
In the same way, going back to the experiment - 7 seconds is a massive amount of time. There cannot possibly be that amount of time between thought and judgement. If there was driving would be far more dangerous than it is.
What that experiment judges is probably when a person makes their mind up. then they probably second guess themselves. Then ask if it is a good idea. After a few more thought processes, they decide to act.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
He wasn't saying that it is possible to predict how someone will react. I think you misunderstood his point.
Think of a decision you made in the past. Whether it was the right or wrong decision is irrelevant; it was the best decision you could have made with the knowledge you had at the time.
Now, if you were placed in EXACTLY the same position as before, without knowing anything different from what you did then, without knowing the outcome, then you would DEFINITELY make the same decision. It is not arbitrary; you would AGAIN make the best decision you could with the knowledge you had at the time.
Think of it like a play e.g. Romeo and Juliet. Imagine you are Romeo. You think that Juliet has died and so you poison yourself. She wakes up, but it is too late and you die.
Next night's performance: you are again Romeo. Again you think that Juliet has died, you do not have any hindsight to realise that she will wake up. So you again poison yourself. There is no two ways about it.
If there [b]were[/b] two ways about it, then it would open the need for multiple, parallel universes.
Why? because of time-travel. Time moves forwards, and it is linear. It doesn't split into two different possibilities. That is why there is only ever one possible decision by each person.
(Yes, I am rubbish at explaining this).
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Not always. I am a little whimsical in I make decisions as and when I need to. Not always for the best, not always for the worst, sometimes knowing the effect, sometimes not.
Ever been in a situation where at the last very second you changed your mind? Not because you found something new, but you just decided to do something else for no real reason? If you were ion that situation ten times, do you think each time you would choose the same?
I probably wouldn't.
It probably depends on how decisive you are and whether you go into situations with preconceived reactions.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
This is what I was trying to argue to him; that humans are different from machines and animals, in that they don't have set reactions to anything. But he was adamant that that opinion is but an illusion, 'the illusion of free-will'.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
He does have a point with what I call "default reactions", but no further than that.
Thing is even these "default actions" can be customised. As an example, to a small amount of pain, my reaction used to be calmly saying the word "ouch".
Thing is you cannot prove that people have real choice. there will always be some way in which it can "potentially" be limited. One of the major arguments in favour of that is if a pigeon cannot understand wave-particle duality, what makes us think a human can comprehend everything?
Just reading, that last bit is pretty off topic.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You saying the word 'ouch' is due to previous experiences you have had, e.g. hearing other people say 'ouch' in similar circumstances, and your physical capacity to use your mouth and tongue to form words.
On a different topic, I was wondering about saying 'Ameen' during duas that are led by a Shaikh. A parrot can mimic speech, and could probably learn to say 'Ameen' along with everyone else when the Shaikh pauses during a long dua. Would the parrot be getting a spiritual connection with Allah (swt) when it does this? If not, why should we presume that we would be getting a spiritual connection with Allah (swt) when we are saying 'Ameen Ameen', even when we don't understand what the shaykh is saying.
I bring this up because, during an event I went to on the weekend, the Shaykh led the dua at the end in English, and while saying 'Ameen' I was almost bought to tears. This has never happened to me before, even during the last third of the night in the Masjid al-Haram during Ramadan when the dua was led by Imam Sudais.
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Exactly. I have a choice even in default reactions. I could have kept the primary "aaah!!!", but I didn't. it was not a domino effect, otherwise everyone would do it.
The parrot follows its nature. I suspect it does not have the ability to question its actions. We do.
As for following dua in another language, I do not know. Personally I find it tacky when the person doing dua starts crying and the cynic in me questions whether it is for show or not.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
tacky?! cmon admin. how is that tacky :? its not their fault they cant control their emotions!!! when you are making dua it's just you and your lord.
btw, the smileys are horrible.
so why do it in groups at all?
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Unless they are trying to entertain the masses. And then there is the other line they all use. "I am less than nothing".
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
why not? at the end of each salah does the imam not make dua? when someone is making dua in public or private they are making it to Allah, they just see themselves and Allah, no one else.
and do you no whats in their hearts? i think not.
If you know that there are two possible things you can do, A is the best decision, but I choose B to wind you up then I obviously wanted to do that.
Hang on! So then criminals can say: "I only killed, beat up, robbed and raped because that's how my genes are? Come on!
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
If Romeo went back then he'd see himself over Juliet's tomb killing himself. He'd run to her, she'd wake up and see two Romeos and that'll be a paradox. And some Reaper would try and break into the crypt to eat them.
Did you watch Doctor Who on Saturday? Fires of Pompeii? According to them some things are fixed and some things are flexible.
I think things only become fixed when they happen but not before. Allah knows what's gonna happen and if he wants he can intervene and change it. What do you think?
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
That doesn't make sense.
Allah (swt) exists outside time. For Him there is no 'before' or 'after'. Time itself is a creation. To say that Allah knows what's going to happen and can change it, is a paradox, because Allah's (swt) Knowledge is different than our knowledge. We know about something [b]because [/b]it exists, whereas something only exists because Allah (swt) knows about it. He says "Be!" and it is.
For Him to 'change destiny' it is not really possible either, because that assumes that He had a plan, and then changed His mind. Since (like I already said) He exists outside of time, there is no 'before' or 'after' for Him, so for Him to change His mind assumes that His knowledge, or power is deficient in some way.
But at least we're all getting philisophical, so its a start!
Don't just do something! Stand there.
OK, say if Allah has it destined that Yaqub Bell will be run over by a car on Thursday. But if Yaqub does a good enough deed, he'll be rewarded in this life with more time. Of course Allah will know what you'll do and He'll do what's best.
I can see where you're coming from, that Allah's plan doesn't 'go wrong', he doesn't need Plan B.
But he can intervene.
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
But he can intervene right?
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
But wouldn't Allah (swt) know that I was going to do a 'good enough deed', long before I was even born?
It makes no sense that He has destined for me to get run over, 'unless I do so-and-so good deed', because He knows exactly what choices we will make.
It is heretical to say that He would 'wait' to see if I did a good deed or not, because, as I said before, there is no 'before' or 'after' for Allah (swt) because He created (and exists outside of) time itself.
I am not making myself very clear astaghfirullah!
Don't just do something! Stand there.
I heard that there's a day in the whole year where what happens to you in the next year is 'modified' if necessary. So if you do a good deed then you might be rewarded with an extra day or something. I think it's the night of power. Anyone heard of this?
la.
No I get what you're saying. I gave a crap example. But if I was to, let's say I try to kill you, Allah can intervene and make my gun jam. Just like he intervened and split the sea for Moses (pbuh).
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.