Yes and no.

You can have an opinion on what colours you like. You cannot have the opinion that God does not exist.

Simply put, if there is something in the Qur'an that is clear cut and explicit, you cannot have an opinion which contradicts it as it will lead to kufr.

Ok well what if something is clear cut in the Qur'an put your either tolerate/impartial to a person that practices something which is a big NO NO in Islam. Would that be defying religion?

What if for example you have a gay friend or a gay work colleague and they are chatting on about having problems with their other half. By listening and offering advice would be encouraging the sin they are committing but telling them they are gonna burn in hell well that is regarded as discrimination and i think you can get sacked for it.

What would one do in a situation like that?
How do you tell that person if they dont stop what they are doing they are goona burn in hell in a nice way (in there is one)?

If you go act against the qur'an, that is a sin. if you believe what the Qur'an says is wrong, that is disbelief.

In your specific case, as long as you believe homosexuality is wrong, then it can be ok (depending on how far you go in the conversations - setting a relationship up would probably be a sin).

Being tolerant/looking the other way is not the same as accepting.

I defo would not go as far as setting gay ppl up or protesting for gay rights. At my last job i had a gay work colleague who was going out with the managers daughter and she use to constantly talk about her girlfriend and how much she was in love with her and some other mushy stuff. I werent allowed to leave the till and everytime i tried to divert the conversation she would divert it back. Anyway she were always saying that her girlfriends mum wont accept the relationship. In my head i was thinking "too righht she aint goona be happy to find out that her only daughter has decided she wants to be gay" but the words that came out of my mouth were "Im sure she will come round!" Thinking back now i cant believe i said that, it sounds wrong.

"I'm sure she will come round," is not a bad thing to say!

If you said something like "Who cares what her mum says, you should just run off together," then that would probably be a bad thing to say (but Allah knows best!)

A very good friend of mine recently got his girlfriend pregnant and she had an abortion. He didn't 'ask my advice' exactly, but I still think it was my duty as a Muslim to help and support him through a difficult time, doing something like that is not the same as agreeing with it, I think.

He asked me Islam's view of abortion, and I explained that I am not a scholar, and then mumbled something about 21 weeks. I think he knows that we advocate self-control instead of birth-control.

He simply can't understand not being able to give into our animal urges, it is alien to him. And why would it be any different? I don't think he's a bad or evil person for wanting enjoyment in this life (especially because the way things are going I'm not sure that he will be getting much enjoyment in the next life).

May Allah (swt) guide us all. Ameen!

You wrote:

If you go act against the qur'an, that is a sin. if you believe what the Qur'an says is wrong, that is disbelief.

In your specific case, as long as you believe homosexuality is wrong, then it can be ok (depending on how far you go in the conversations - setting a relationship up would probably be a sin).

Being tolerant/looking the other way is not the same as accepting.

That was very concisly put mashaAllah!

My view is that if you can't directly say the proper Islamic solution, then either:

1) Keep your mouth shut
2) Go as far as you can in that direction by asking subtle questions. Like: "What do you expect to get out of this?"

By the way, this doesn't apply to me so please don't get the wrong idea! Just out of interest, if someone is gay, what should they do? Should they marry just like everyone else or what?

I'm straight, so don't start giggling!

Courage wrote:

By the way, this doesn't apply to me so please don't get the wrong idea! Just out of interest, if someone is gay, what should they do? Should they marry just like everyone else or what?

I'm straight, so don't start giggling!

In my understanding, there is no sin in having 'lewd' thoughts - it is only acting on them that it becomes a sin.

And for a gay person - all sex outside marriage is a sin, whether gay or strait, and you can't marry another man, so you just have to grin and bare it.

I know some strait people who haven't married, and I'm pretty sure they haven't been having any relations, so its definately not impossible, it is simply a matter of suppressing their desires (just like someone who has desire for a married woman can never act on them).

Either that, or we should chop off the head of anyone who watches Big Brother and waves their arms around when they talk.

Not sure.

Courage wrote:

...if someone is gay...

Assumption number one. it implies that there is a physical condition, defect which makes the person the way he/she is.

Ya'qub wrote:

Courage wrote:

By the way, this doesn't apply to me so please don't get the wrong idea! Just out of interest, if someone is gay, what should they do? Should they marry just like everyone else or what?

I'm straight, so don't start giggling!

In my understanding, there is no sin in having 'lewd' thoughts - it is only acting on them that it becomes a sin.

And for a gay person - all sex outside marriage is a sin, whether gay or strait, and you can't marry another man, so you just have to grin and bare it.

I know some strait people who haven't married, and I'm pretty sure they haven't been having any relations, so its definately not impossible, it is simply a matter of suppressing their desires (just like someone who has desire for a married woman can never act on them).

Either that, or we should chop off the head of anyone who watches Big Brother and waves their arms around when they talk.

Not sure.

But I thought monkhood doesn't exist in Islam. And didn't the Prophet say "Whoever can marry must."?

Courage wrote:

But I thought monkhood doesn't exist in Islam. And didn't the Prophet say "Whoever can marry must."?

...which implys some people [b]can't[/b] for whatever reason.

Theres no such thing as celibacy in Islam. The prophet (pbuh) said, "Marriage is my tradition who so ever keeps away there from is not from amongst me".

However many trains of thought believe marriage to be simply recommendatory, whilst for others it is wajib (obligatory... coz they cant control themselves).

On the other hand ive also read somewhere that one should not marry if he is unable to maintan a wife and future family for whatever reason.

Seraph wrote:

On the other hand ive also read somewhere that one should not marry if he is unable to maintan a wife and future family for whatever reason.

For example, if he's gay, perhaps?

I have a gay friend who converted to Islam. I don't see how any of us should tell him he 'must' get married.

One should marry if they are able to do so. So for example if a man is not financially stable, it would be better for him to wait. If someone can't marry then they should fast instead. Allah (swt) knows best.

You wrote:

Simply put, if there is something in the Qur'an that is clear cut and explicit, you cannot have an opinion which contradicts it as it will lead to kufr.

The sunna (hadith) is also included here, because there are some people who accept the Qur'an and reject the hadith.

afaik, rejecting a clear cut hadith is NOT kufr - it is a very major sin.

There are no verses in the Qu'ran nor ahadith about homosexuality - there is a verse regarding rape, but not anything about consensual sex.

Your defo not born gay. I think it has a lot to do with a persons upbringing and if they have been in a really bad relationship/s. My ex work colleague, her girlfriend and one of my friends all use to be straight once upon a time. They have all been in really bad relationships with men. They then blame all men for their bad experience/s. So they decide to bat the other way. Well thats my theory.

Ya'qub wrote:

There are no verses in the Qu'ran nor ahadith about homosexuality - there is a verse regarding rape, but not anything about consensual sex.

You sure?

Is it in the same as neither sex nor Jihad are mentioned in the Qur'an?

I have heard there is mention, but it is along the lines of "taking someone to bed" rather than... erm I will refrain from acting like Austin Powers.

You wrote:

afaik, rejecting a clear cut hadith is NOT kufr - it is a very major sin.

Quote:

In Surah Al-Hashr, Allah (swt) says: So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. [59:7]

He also says: But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. [4:65]

Allah (swt) says: O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. [4:59]

I'm not a scholar so I won't comment.

Ya'qub wrote:

There are no verses in the Qu'ran nor ahadith about homosexuality - there is a verse regarding rape, but not anything about consensual sex.

In more than one place in the Holy Koran, Allah recounts to us the story of Lots people, and how He destroyed them for their wicked practice. There is consensus among both Muslims and the followers of all other religions that sodomy is an enormity. It is even viler and uglier than adultery. [The Reliance of the Traveller (p17.0)]

Allah (swt) says: Do you approach the males of humanity, leaving the wives Allah has created for you? But you are a people who transgress. (26:165-66)

The Prophet said: May Allah curse him who does what Lots people did.

Adding to what's been said, there's also ijma.

MuslimBro wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

There are no verses in the Qu'ran nor ahadith about homosexuality - there is a verse regarding rape, but not anything about consensual sex.

In more than one place in the Holy Koran, Allah recounts to us the story of Lots people, and how He destroyed them for their wicked practice. There is consensus among both Muslims and the followers of all other religions that sodomy is an enormity. It is even viler and uglier than adultery. [The Reliance of the Traveller (p17.0)]

Allah (swt) says: Do you approach the males of humanity, leaving the wives Allah has created for you? But you are a people who transgress. (26:165-66)

The Prophet said: May Allah curse him who does what Lots people did.

Adding to what's been said, there's also ijma.

Do you know Lot's (as) story?

The people tried to [b]rape[/b] the angels who came in human form to visit Lot.

And like I said, ALL sex outside of a marriage is one of the biggest sins.

But if someone has feelings (which they don't act on), then there is no sin. Infact, NOT acting on urges to sin counts as a good deed.

Ya'qub wrote:

Do you know Lot's (as) story?

The people tried to [b]rape[/b] the angels who came in human form to visit Lot.

Yes, the men of Lot (as) tried to rape the angels but couldn't as they (angels) were under Allah's (swt) protection. The men of Lot (as) were known to engage in consensual sex with other men, and avoid the women who were created for them, thus they were destroyed.

Ya'qub wrote:

But if someone has feelings (which they don't act on), then there is no sin. Infact, NOT acting on urges to sin counts as a good deed.

Agreed.

I have some opinions that may not always be totally compatible with the Islamic viewpoint.

In most cases I keep my mouth shut...it other situations, I dont even pretend to be apologetic about it (i.e issues with polygamy)

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

What is your grievance with polygamy?

On second thoughts, maybe I should have asked but I know subjects like this become very contentious…

I like this quote, cant remember where I read it from [b]“don’t put a question mark where Allah subhana wa ta'ala has put a full stopped”,[/b] but silence is salvation after all.

Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah

I would suspect the "grievance" to be one of feelings rather that rulings.

While people may accept that Polygamy is allowed, it does not mean a married woman would want to not the the only person in the world for her husband.

Ditto @ Admin.

Pologamy is/was beneficial to millions of people all around the world - past/present. It really can work well.

I just believe that my partner should have eyes only for me.

He can marry whoever he wants - I would never ever force someone to stay with me.

But he has to leave me first and then marry her.