Al-Burāq, the mythological steed

[quote=lollywood]Please name a few[/quote]

The shaykhs of al azhar, the leaders of An Nahda in Tunisia, the religious affairs directorate of Turkey along with the conference there on the issue of democracy in AFAIK 1998.

Add to that Pakistani scholars who are or have took part in politics in the past.

You might also have heard of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yusuf Al Qaradawi too.

Islamic groups in Libya. Morocco currently has a islamic group which is the majority parliamentarian party (though this is a constitutional monarchy).

The groups who dont allow popular leadership are few and far between, even if they may be vocal.

you are just throwing hot air without backing your position up from anything apart from a few anecdotes. anecdotal evidence is not conclusive, but generally presenting the views of one person, and here you will get people on youtube telling you how aliens landed at Roswell and how semiconductor technology is actually from outside this world.

but those are conspiracy theorists with anecdotes, they do not prove that intelligent aliens have landed on earth or are manipulating the system here or anything close.

I will give you an example of modern day legalised corruption in the UK.

Recently the funding to Manchester city council was cut drastically.

When Manchester city council in response cut many services, the government went to it that it should focus more on selling off any assets it owns (like old peoples homes, play areas, community centrres etc).

All of this would cover a shortfall in the short term, but in the long term it would make giving those services mroe expensive.

However if the council is forced into a fire sale selling off its assetts below market value in order to meet its funding requirements, guess who wins?

those that can afford buying the assetts.

I would hazard many of them would be rich and tory supporting groups and people.

Not officially corruption, but the end result is the same - sell te poor for the benefit of the rich.

[quote=Foysol89]:lol:
what are your findings, why are we here,
[/quote]

Some people would say we're here to please our creator who created us
Some would say this life is a test, and the real life starts aftar Qayamat
Some would say you only live once so make the most of this once coz you're not going to get it again

[quote=Foysol89]
where did we come from & where are we gonna go?
[/quote]

we evolved from monkeys
I don't know where we are going to go

[quote=Foysol89]
I really don't understand your way of thinking...it's like you're an alien who doesn't understand human behaviour, well atleast that's the act you're putting on. Seriously, what's with the clueless act one minute & then the next you're a know it all who just repeats some dumbfounded argument that's not their own and keeps repeating it without any understanding.
[/quote]

I never said that I was a know it all, why do you think that?

[quote=Foysol89]
When you want to learn about a subject, you don't study a person who's studying it himself (which is what you're doing). what im saying is go study Islam and not muslims.
[/quote]

I've given up on Islam, I don't want to worry about religion

[quote=Foysol89]
I'm pretty sure if someone took YOU as study material for Islam they wouldn't have a clue about what Islam is.
[/quote]

That's true because my Imaan is very very weak or none at all

[quote=Foysol89]
Seriously, you come out with so much rubbish and you expect us to explain your regurgitated crap back to you.
[/quote]
We should not disregard each others views like that

[quote=Foysol89]
Oh and thanks for making me laugh. You killed it with the whole West side government is better than the rest. Go tell that to the millions of civillians who died so the west could have their oil.
[/quote]

Please
Iran–Iraq War ( First Persian Gulf War) Muslims killed each other
Iraq and Kuwait gulf war Muslims killed each other
Syrian occupation of Lebanon Muslims killed each other

[quote=Foysol89]
You know what i apologies if i offended you but you need to seriously use that brain of yours to search for the truth. May Allah guide you and us all. Ameen
[/quote]

Why is your truth the only truth? and everyone else’s truth a lie?

because they made it up! and coz they dont know what its about.

you beleive we come from monkey? you believe that you blinnk and breathe without thinking is a matter of total randomness?

what am i doing...you're wayy too young to be arguing this stuff. you think you're on top of the world "mamma, Im seven, I know everything there is to know about the world and i dont need to go to school anymore!" thats you.

you need to understand and assimilate a few things:

muslim does NOT equal Islam
muslim countries does NOT equal Islam

you need to learn about ISLAM. not pakistani/asian culture.

Lollywood Wrote:

Why is your truth the only truth? and everyone else’s truth a lie?

Some questions only have one right answer. Plus it's not my answer but it's the only answer that makes sense unlike yours. Unless someone can prove otherwise i will follow Islam because i believe it has all the answers.

All i'm saying is i believe that 2+2 = 4 because it's been proved to me and it makes sense so i accept it. If someone want to believe the answer is 3 then that's upto them.

[quote=You]
The shaykhs of al azhar, the leaders of An Nahda in Tunisia, the religious affairs directorate of Turkey along with the conference there on the issue of democracy in AFAIK 1998.
[/quote]

Got to take your word on that, don't know much about Tunisia

[quote=You]
Add to that Pakistani scholars who are or have took part in politics in the past.
[/quote]

You mean Maulana Fazul ur Rehman Qazi Hussain Ahmed MMA Mutaihida Majlas -e- Amal what did they ever do? i can't remember anything

Amir Liaquat Hussain a mini scholar

Mein aik be ikhtiyar wazeer ho

Pakistan's peoples party
Zulafqar Ali Bhutto,daughter behnazir now husband Zardari, next Bilawal "Bhutto" zardari

or if you vote for me mr Kashif I will get your brother released from jail
is this what you call democracy, here do we see this kind of thing

[quote=You]
You might also have heard of the Muslim Brotherhood.
[/quote]
Yes

[quote=You]
Yusuf Al Qaradawi too.

Islamic groups in Libya. Morocco currently has a islamic group which is the majority parliamentarian party (though this is a constitutional monarchy).
[/quote]

Libya Qaddafi took over and did not want to let go, his people were sick of him, son was going to be next
I don't think any party would have ever got a chance

The groups who dont allow popular leadership are few and far between, even if they may be vocal.
[/quote]

Heard on the news today that people have been killed in Syria

[quote=Lilly]because they made it up! and coz they dont know what its about.

you beleive we come from monkey? you believe that you blinnk and breathe without thinking is a matter of total randomness?

what am i doing...you're wayy too young to be arguing this stuff. you think you're on top of the world "mamma, Im seven, I know everything there is to know about the world and i dont need to go to school anymore!" [/quote]

LOL 😂

[quote=Lilly]because they made it up! and coz they dont know what its about.

you beleive we come from monkey? you believe that you blink and breathe without thinking is a matter of total randomness?
[/quote]

I'm not sure but human evolution says that

[quote=Lilly]
what am i doing...you're wayy too young to be arguing this stuff. you think you're on top of the world "mamma, Im seven, I know everything there is to know about the world and i dont need to go to school anymore!" thats you.
[/quote]

do I sound like that, really?

[quote=Lilly]
you need to understand and assimilate a few things:

muslim does NOT equal Islam
[/quote]

It does because you're Muslim and your Muslim because of Islam

[quote=Lilly]
muslim countries does NOT equal Islam
[/quote]
How?

[quote=Lilly]
you need to learn about ISLAM. not pakistani/asian culture.
[/quote]

Islam’s history has nothing to do with us British Muslims, European Muslims, Asian Muslims, African Muslims sorry if I’ve missed out

The only people that Muslim history is relevant to is Arab’s who are Islam ke Thekedaar] in other words Islam belongs to them, the Quran is written in Arabic- Mohammed (PBUH) was an Arab born in Makka and he was apart of the Qureshi tribe who were Arab, we pray towards Mekka Qabaa we go for Hajj and Umrah to Saudi Arab, we are slaves of the Arabs

you love making assertions without backing them up.

you jump from one topic to another without actually responding the the points raised.

I think I am 90% sure I am going to ban you.

[quote=You]you love making assertions without backing them up.

you jump from one topic to another without actually responding the the points raised.

I think I am 90% sure I am going to ban you.[/quote]

I have

[quote=lollywood][quote=Lilly]because they made it up! and coz they dont know what its about.

you beleive we come from monkey? you believe that you blink and breathe without thinking is a matter of total randomness?
[/quote]

I'm not sure but human evolution says that [/quote] i said DO YOU?

[quote=lollywood][quote=Lilly]
what am i doing...you're wayy too young to be arguing this stuff. you think you're on top of the world "mamma, Im seven, I know everything there is to know about the world and i dont need to go to school anymore!" thats you.
[/quote]

do I sound like that, really? [/quote]

yes

[quote=lollywood][quote=Lilly]
you need to understand and assimilate a few things:

muslim does NOT equal Islam
[/quote]

It does because you're Muslim and your Muslim because of Islam [/quote] that does not make sense.

[quote=lollywood][quote=Lilly]
muslim countries does NOT equal Islam
[/quote]
How? [/quote]

you tell me how it DOES?

[quote=lollywood][quote=Lilly]
you need to learn about ISLAM. not pakistani/asian culture.
[/quote]

Islam’s history has nothing to do with us British Muslims, European Muslims, Asian Muslims, African Muslims sorry if I’ve missed out

The only people that Muslim history is relevant to is Arab’s who are Islam ke Thekedaar] in other words Islam belongs to them, the Quran is written in Arabic- Mohammed (PBUH) was an Arab born in Makka and he was apart of the Qureshi tribe who were Arab, we pray towards Mekka Qabaa we go for Hajj and Umrah to Saudi Arab, we are slaves of the Arabs[/quote][/quote]

Islam's history got everything to do with us coz its US. we're muslims before anythign else.

[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxO2KGlI-_A]

Quran, surah 34 ayah 28: And We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) save as a bringer of good tidings and a warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind know not. (28)

it says Linnassi = people. the WHOLE WORLD. thats the difference between prophet muhammad (pbuh) and the rest of the prophets which were sent only to their people.

the cure to ignorance is asking questions.

[quote=Lilly]

i said DO YOU?
[/quote]

I'm not sure tbh science is discovering new things every day

[quote=Lilly]
you tell me how it DOES?
[/quote]

A Muslim county is going to follow Islam so what ever culture you're going to see is Islamic

Example a news readers say bismilla rraḥmāni rrahim before starting the news in Pakistan then its news in Urdu Punjabi English or whatever, news in UK would be Good morning or afternoon lets take a look at today’s headlines no bismilla because it’s not a Muslim country

Things closing on religious holidays

[quote=Lilly]
Islam's history got everything to do with us coz its US. we're muslims before anythign else.
[/quote]

No because we can't relate to them in any way plus our families were not even Muslims then
I think they invaded countries with the sword

example
Salahudin born in Iraq
Mehmood Ghaznavi born in Afghanstan
Mohd. bin qasim born in Saudi
Zahir ud din Babar born Uzbekistan
Ahmed Abdali born in Afghanstan
Nadir Shah born in Afghanstan

Me and Hassan Nisar have these questions, we're all Muslim the same lets see

The Arabs do not let the Pakistanis marry in them
They do not give Pakistani's permanent residency to live AFAIK
they put you under a person called Kafeel an Arab who you have to get permission from to do anything, the west who are non muslim welcome the whole world and give you all the rights, they don't treat you like a slave, yet you talk bad about them he says in urdu in a funny way

God mein baith ke daari kainchte ho that's very funny

in ENGLISH it' s something like this - Muslims who live in the west and protest agents them that's like sitting in someone's lap and pulling their beard

Quran, surah 34 ayah 28: And We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) save as a bringer of good tidings and a warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind know not. (28)

[quote=Lilly]
it says Linnassi = people. the WHOLE WORLD. thats the difference between prophet muhammad (pbuh) and the rest of the prophets which were sent only to their people.

the cure to ignorance is asking questions.
[/quote]

Then everyone should love and respect Mohammed (PBHU) but they don't

like you said, but they dont. thats not islam. thats muslims. and stop saying ARABS. who are you referring to in this

The Arabs do not let the Pakistanis marry in them
They do not give Pakistani's permanent residency to live AFAIK
they put you under a person called Kafeel an Arab who you have to get permission from to do anything, the west who are non muslim welcome the whole world and give you all the rights, they don't treat you like a slave, yet you talk bad about them he says in urdu in a funny way

Saudi Arabia? thats the way the ruler wants to roll. he's allowed. it might be unfair. but the duah of the oppressed is never left unanswered and an unjust ruler will be accountable on the day of judgement. so you do not need to worry about these things because Allah created ISlam perfectly and it always works out perfectly and anyway, you do not live there.

Salahudin born in Iraq
Mehmood Ghaznavi born in Afghanstan
Mohd. bin qasim born in Saudi
Zahir ud din Babar born Uzbekistan
Ahmed Abdali born in Afghanstan
Nadir Shah born in Afghanstan

apart from Saudi..these are not "arabs" as you call them. Companions of the prophet (pbuh) spread islam everywhere and from there amazing muslims like Salahuddin Al Ayyubi arose.

stop throwing "cool" statements out you heard on tv/news/friends. "Islam spread by the sword"...i wont even bother explaining. you know its wrong. well at least you know its not right. there's plenty of writings on that, i'll look into it maybe...

[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlUXk4UQ-eU&sns=em]

What's your purpose in life?

[quote=lollywood][quote=Lilly]so hmm..why did this particular event make you want to reject Islam?[/quote]

Because it sounds like a fairy tale[/quote]

Before that event happened, the Muslims were on the back foot, the Prophet(pbuh) lost his uncle and his wife and various other tradgedies had happened.

After this event, everything changed.

[quote=Perseveranze]
Before that event happened, the Muslims were on the back foot, the Prophet(pbuh) lost his uncle and his wife and various other tradgedies had happened.

After this event, everything changed.[/quote]

Why did Allah give Mohammed (PBUH)so many tragedies?
Losing 1 of his wives could not have been that much of a tragedy because he had more 12 I think

See, here is how it also hints that you have never been Muslim - you know some things, but not enough as compared to what a Muslim would know.

During the time of Hadhrat Khadijah (ra), the prophet ﷺ had only one wife.

[quote=You]See, here is how it also hints that you have never been Muslim - you know some things, but not enough as compared to what a Muslim would know.
[/quote]
British Pakistani Muslims are like that

[quote=You]
During the time of Hazrat Khatijah (ra), the prophet ﷺ had only one wife.[/quote]
[/quote]

Ok, I did not know that

[quote=lollywood][quote=You]See, here is how it also hints that you have never been Muslim - you know some things, but not enough as compared to what a Muslim would know.
[/quote]
British Pakistani Muslims are like that
[/quote]
You know, I was going to say some Muslims don't know stuff like that, but then cbb.
But WHYYYYY do you generalise like that, no not all 'British Pakistani Muslims' are like that. And why does your world start and end with Pakistanis?! There are other Muslims out there.

ARGHHHHHHHHH

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]
You know, I was going to say some Muslims don't know stuff like that, but then cbb.
But WHYYYYY do you generalise like that, no not all 'British Pakistani Muslims' are like that.
[/quote]

Ok, send a person from the revival.co.uk and ask these questions on the street and see how many 'British Pakistani Muslims’get them right

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]
And why does your world start and end with Pakistanis?! There are other Muslims out there.

ARGHHHHHHHHH[/quote]

I like to promote Pakistan in any good way

[quote=lollywood]I like to promote Pakistan in any good way[/quote]

yes, by neglecting everything that pushes them to be good and decent.

Bravo.

[quote=lollywood][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]
You know, I was going to say some Muslims don't know stuff like that, but then cbb.
But WHYYYYY do you generalise like that, no not all 'British Pakistani Muslims' are like that.
[/quote]

Ok, send a person from the revival.co.uk and ask these questions on the street and see how many 'British Pakistani Muslims’get them right [/quote]

You can't actually comprehend what you read, can you?

I suggest you look up 'some' in the dictionary

[quote]I like to promote Pakistan in any good way[/quote]

LOL you're really not making Pakistan look good, more like the total opposite.

You need to understand. When you're a muslim. Nothing else matters. You're a muslim before everything and anything else. The rest - if there's any - comes after. Hence why on here we're all friends. Coz we don't talk in problematic ways about the rest of the labels if we ever talk about them. French, british, asian, pakistani, bengladeshi. Bla bla bla. It's all side stuff we don't need to argue about. You're the only nationalist here. And nationalism is not islamic. Especially if it's about dividing and setting up against each other.

I see you haven't replied to what i've said above? You agree? And the prophet had a hard life so that jerks like you will not be able to say stuff like 'oh the prophet never had a hard that's why he's so perfect! I can't be a good muslim!' the prophet could not read, was an orphan at 6, lost his grandad and only carer at 8. His uncle who protected him in very hard times did not become a muslim and died. His most beloved wife died because the muslims were exiled with no food and no shelter for 2 years. Stones were thrown at him when all he wanted to do was talk to people about Allah. He had sons but they died when young. One of the reasons put forward is because then he would have had successor who could have claimed leadership and special status after his death. If you read the books we recommend to you you'd know this stuff. You've rejected something you don't even know. Just like a kid saying he don't like peas before he even tasted them at the dinner table. Once again throwing a tantrum for no reason. You know how we're suppose to deal with that situation? Ignore the kid until he comes round.

[quote=Lilly]You need to understand. When you're a muslim. Nothing else matters. You're a muslim before everything and anything else.
[/quote]
How about Ahmedi Muslims?
Shia Muslims add to the Kalma

[quote=Lilly]
The rest - if there's any - comes after. Hence why on here we're all friends. Coz we don't talk in problematic ways about the rest of the labels if we ever talk about them. French, british, asian, pakistani, bangladeshi. Bla bla bla. It's all side stuff we don't need to argue about.
[/quote]

You should try and be friends with everyone outside or on the internet

[quote=Lilly]
You're the only nationalist here. And nationalism is not islamic. Especially if it's about dividing and setting up against each other.[/quote]

Muslims have been divided since the death of Mohammed (PBUH)

[quote=Lilly]You agree? And the prophet had a hard life so that jerks like you will not be able to say stuff like 'oh the prophet never had a hard that's why he's so perfect! I can't be a good muslim!'
[/quote]

[quote=Lilly]
the prophet could not read, was an orphan at 6, lost his grandad and only carer at 8.
[/quote]

How did he know the Quran?

[quote=Lilly]
His uncle who protected him in very hard times did not become a muslim and died.
[/quote]

Why did he not convert his uncle?

[quote=Lilly]
His most beloved wife died because the muslims were exiled with no food and no shelter for 2 years.
[/quote]

Why did Allah not help for 2 years?

[quote=Lilly]
Stones were thrown at him when all he wanted to do was talk to people about Allah.
[/quote]

Throwing stones is just wrong

[quote=Lilly]
He had sons but they died when young. One of the reasons put forward is because then he would have had successor who could have claimed leadership and special status after his death. If you read the books we recommend to you you'd know this stuff.
[/quote]

That's understandable

[quote=Lilly]
You've rejected something you don't even know. Just like a kid saying he don't like peas before he even tasted them at the dinner table.
[/quote]

Have I up set you

[quote=Lilly]
Once again throwing a tantrum for no reason.
[/quote]

If you feel like that I will listen to you

[quote=Lilly]
You know how we're suppose to deal with that situation? Ignore the kid until he comes round.
[/quote]

I didn’t know that, your gonna make a very good mother in future

Muslims have been divided since the death of Mohammed Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him

not true. but you wouldnt know..you just listen to i dont even know what...

[quote=Lilly]
not true. but you wouldnt know..you just listen to i dont even know what...
[/quote]

See

From a historic viewpoint, with Mohammed's (PBUH) death in AD 632, disagreement broke out over who should succeed him as leader of the Muslim community. Umar (Umar ibn al-Khattab), a prominent companion of Muhammad, nominated Abu Bakr(r.a). Others added their support and Abu Bakr (r.a) was made the first caliph. This choice was disputed by some of Mohammed (PBUH) companions, who held that Ali (r.a)
(Ali ibn Abi Talib), his cousin brother and son-in-law, had been designated his successor. None of Mohammed (PBUH) sons survived into adulthood, therefore direct hereditary succession was never an option

...source...

[quote=Lilly]...source...[/quote]

This was taken from wiki but ask any alim and they will tell you the same as that's how the Sunni Shia divide came about