Why 2 Eids?

Sajid Iqbal β€”

Salaam

Looks like there will be Eid on two seperate days again this year!!!!
Below is an article I wrote several years ago for The Revival Magazine...it tries to explain why we have Eid on seperate days:

[b]
Why 2 Eids?[/b]

"Eid is on Thursday. What d'you mean, we're having our on Friday. How come? Hey that's when our mosque is doing it so don't ask me!"

How many of us have had this kind of chat year in year out? Why do we have Eid on two separate days? Why can't the ulema agree to have it on one day? What are the arguments and debates behind the scene? Who's to blame?

The following saying of the Prophet ο·Ί should make this clear: "Fast after sighting the moon and end the moon after sighting it. If it is cloudy then complete thirty days of shaban." (Bukhari)

So if it is this easy then why the punch-ups, the heated debates and the great divide in the Muslim community? Well you see, there are two interpretations of this hadith. One group of scholars stick to the literal meaning of "ruyat" (sighting) as meaning "mushahada" observing with the eye.

They say that the moon should be seen with the eye and there is no room for astronomical calculations. The second group say that ruyat should not be taken simply in its literal sense and therefore it is allowed to use astronomical data (using observatories) for sighting the moon.

Now let's see what these groups have to say. The first group (A) of scholars mostly belong to the Deoband School and are represented by their national body Hizb-ul-Ulama. They have gathered fatawas (legal opinions) from Saudi Arabia, India and Pakistan in which they reject the use of astronomical data.

The main fatwas comes from Sheikh Abdullah Bin Baz (Mufti of Saudi Arabia), he clearly states: "there is no room for observatory in moon sighting"

The Mufti of Darul Uloom Deoband says: "I have known for very early on that Saudi Arabia does not follow any calculation or astronomical table in determining the beginning of the month, but they employ the Shariah system of witnessing"

To strengthen their arguments they have gathered 48 eyes witness accounts of moon sighting when according to astronomical data the moon was not capable of being sighted. So basically this group follows the Saudi Arabia decision for moonsighting.

The second group of Scholars (B) is represented by Jamat-e Ahle-sunnah. They argue that "sighting" in the hadith can mean knowledge through astronomical calculaitons. They argue that this is necessary particularly for the Muslims in the northern hemisphere where the sky is often cloudy and seeing the moon by eye is very difficult.

Sheik ul-Hadith, Sheik Miraj-ul-Islam (Minhaj-ul-Quran International University, Lahore) states: "If we take ruyat (sighting) in the hadith to mean knowledge and it can be ascertained from the observatory that the moon has appeared on the horizon but due to cloudy skies or the brightness of the sun it can not be seen by the eye, in that sae the Ulema should accept the astronomical data and announce the beginning of Ramadan"

When is comes to the question "hen can the moon be sighted", the Jamat-e Ahle-Sunnah argue that the moon has to be 16 hours old to be visible. They argue " ..the mere existence of the moon on the horizon is not sufficient, if we are to decide about the moon in light of astronomical data then it must be capable of being sighted.

Because if it is capable of being sighted then somewhere in the world it will be seen. According to our view, if the moon has not been observed by the eye or is not capable of being seen (is less than 16 hours old) then it is wrong to begin the Islamic month"

Group B criticise the Saudi Government and Scholars for creating the divide in the Muslim Ummah. "It is extremely saddening and unfortunate that the Saudi Government and many other eminent scholars who follow this opinion have adopted the beginning of the new month from the birth of the moon, regardless of whether it is capable of being physically see, as the Prophet strongly stipulated.

The (Saudi) argue that the presence of the new moon being on the Horizon for even a few minutes is enough to fulfil the Islamic criteria. However, astronomical data proves that a few minutes in not enough for physical observation with the eye because the rays of the sun will overshadow it"

From what we've heard so far the biggest debate is whether it is allowed to use astronomical data to establish the sighting of the moon. Let's dig out some further arguments to understand this issue further.

The opponents of validity of astronomical data quote some traditional supreme jurists, for example Mullah Ali Qari, a Hanafi jurist who says "..tere is a consensus in the Ummah that calculations of astronomers are unacceptable"

In their defence group B argue that "..many Muslim scholars have permitted the use of information for scientific observatory to establish the sighting of the moon" They quote scholars such as Imam Shafi, Ibn Rushd, Imam Daqiqul Eid, Imam Qurtubi to name just a few.

They also argue that the reason why jurists were sceptical about astronomical data was because in the past their methods were not refined and accurate. But no one can say that about astronomy these days. It is an exact science.

Dr Yousuf al Qardawi, a distinguished contemporary scholar, says ".. since the reason for not accepting astronomical data is not longer valid, it is a requisite to use the calculations and prove the appearance of crescent by astronomical computation."

So, what now? Well the way things are going the only way we will have one Eid in the future is if one of the group compromises and agrees on one formula. Is this likely, to be honest is doesn't look like it. But look on the bright side, with Eid being on to two separate days, we can have an extra day off work/college, so it can't be that bad. πŸ˜‰

Let's just hope the scholars sort their act out.

Β© The Revival 2005

Forum

Sirus β€” Tue, 1 Nov 2005 - 20:18

Khair Mubarak

well....seein as you some of you doin it on thursday, ive come to the conclusion ours is probably gona be on Friday

two jamaats in the mosque πŸ˜ƒ

got the weekoff uni anyway, sowont make a diff - not plannin on doin much....lol

ive got a feeling Omrow will do it on saturday..........

Seraphim β€” Tue, 1 Nov 2005 - 20:22

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]Khair Mubarak

well....seein as you some of you doin it on thursday, ive come to the conclusion ours is probably gona be on Friday

two jamaats in the mosque πŸ˜ƒ

got the weekoff uni anyway, sowont make a diff - not plannin on doin much....lol

ive got a feeling Omrow will do it on saturday..........[/quote]

Yep yep yep...

Molvi anounced it today... we doin Eid on Fri.

Sirus β€” Tue, 1 Nov 2005 - 20:23

phew....i didnt miss the last tirawih then πŸ˜‚

Got Job interview tomorrow.......pray for me please!!

oh and send me your CV's everyone lol

You β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 00:18

inshallah you got job.

however eid may still be thursday.

An announcement is of the predicted date, and can be wrong. Unless the people are arogant and are not willing to change.

flower β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 00:33

Inshallah u will get the job Hayder, Our mosque has not decided when eid is, maybe thurday maybe friday. Eid Mubarak to everyone anyhow, wont get a chance to come on here till after eid now!!! Hope evrybody has a nice time!

Sajid Iqbal β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 18:03

salaam

some interesting news i have just heard....

A deobandi/tablighi jamaat mosque in Oldham which started to fast on Tuesday, they have completed 30 fasts , so their eid should be tomorrow...but guess what...they will NOT be doing it tomorrow but on Friday. They have said that Saudi moonsighting method is WRONG!
I have also heard that alot of deobandi/tablighi jamaat mosques are doing the same.
Med & co can you fill us on, on this pls....

wasalaam

Sirus β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 18:06

u cant do 31 fasts tho?!

ieven if that was the case, im sure they would still do it on thursday

is this jamia mosque on manchester rd?

Sajid Iqbal β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 18:11

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]u cant do 31 fasts tho?!

ieven if that was the case, im sure they would still do it on thursday

is this jamia mosque on manchester rd?[/quote]
they are not fasting tomorrow...
but doing eid on friday..
islamically you can do that if you feel u started fasting on the wrong day.
its Pitt St Mosque, Glodwick.

Sirus β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 18:13

St Pat's mosque πŸ˜‚

would that mean the mosque on my steet as well?

star β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 18:17

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]salaam

some interesting news i have just heard....

A deobandi/tablighi jamaat mosque in Oldham which started to fast on Tuesday, they have completed 30 fasts , so their eid should be tomorrow...but guess what...they will NOT be doing it tomorrow but on Friday. They have said that Saudi moonsighting method is WRONG!
I have also heard that alot of deobandi/tablighi jamaat mosques are doing the same.
Med & co can you fill us on, on this pls....

wasalaam[/quote]

na our mosque still doing it tmrow...dont really understand the argument,
but whats really getting me worked up is those people who have got a problem with us who are doing eid tomorrow, but couldnt care less eid will inshallah be tomorrow.

Sirus β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 18:18

who said anyones got a problem? :?

eid can be on monday for all i care, enjoy yourselves and be good muslims

star β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 18:22

trust me people have got a problem , tune on ta dm digital and u'll see what some crazy people are saying nutters.

it shouldnt really matter thought LOL, funny ppl.

i mean theres no point in cussing each other saying so and so is wrong doing eid on this dat day,

everyone should just follow their own mosques end of..if u started fast on tuesday do eid on thursday, if wednesday then eid on friday.

Sajid Iqbal β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 19:06

[quote="naj"]trust me people have got a problem , tune on ta dm digital and u'll see what some crazy people are saying nutters.

it shouldnt really matter thought LOL, funny ppl.

i mean theres no point in cussing each other saying so and so is wrong doing eid on this dat day,

everyone should just follow their own mosques end of..if u started fast on tuesday do eid on thursday, if wednesday then eid on friday.[/quote]

just ignore them sis...
there is no right or wrong day
it depends on moonsighting formula you choose etc..

Angel β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 20:54

My eid is on Friday...some here are doin eid 2mor whilst others friday...

Happy eid to those celebratin 2mro!

What bout everyone?

EazyD β€” Wed, 2 Nov 2005 - 22:57

Salam Muslims
Peace Non-Muslims

Alhamdullilahi Rabbil Alamin. Eid Mubarak my brothers and sisters and Non Muslims

Med’s point is quite interesting, and I mostly agree, as he put the argument in a context of the overall position of the ummah.

Many people to my knowledge are unaware of the legitimate ikhtilaf upon the sighting of the moon that some go as far as imposing their Islamic opinions upon others. In Britain there are individuals Muslims working with the British government to entail one of the Islamic opinions upon Muslims who follow a legitimate different opinion. It is like those who like to enforce that there are no madhahabs (Islamic schools of thought) but one or that there is only one Islamic opinion on everything and that’s there’s! This is ignorance due to lack of Islamic fiqh.

It is natural for human societies to differ and the Ummah, even at the time of the sahaba (ra), has differed in many issues and this is one of those issues that will never be solved without a legitimate authority.

According to the salaf (1st three generations of Muslims) and the khalaf (later generation and classical scholars) the khalifah must adopt upon issues that cause disunity in society which means the khalifahs adoption on one of the Islamic opinions is binding upon all Muslims.

w/s Muslims
Peace Non Muslims

flower β€” Thu, 3 Nov 2005 - 00:13

[quote="angel"]My eid is on Friday...some here are doin eid 2mor whilst others friday...

Happy eid to those celebratin 2mro!

What bout everyone?[/quote]

We celebratin friday too, although the bengali community here is celebrating tomorow (or technically today!) eid mubarak to everyone

Angel β€” Thu, 3 Nov 2005 - 00:20

[quote="flower"][quote="angel"]My eid is on Friday...some here are doin eid 2mor whilst others friday...

Happy eid to those celebratin 2mro!

What bout everyone?[/quote]

We celebratin friday too, although the bengali community here is celebrating tomorow (or technically today!) eid mubarak to everyone[/quote]

Its really annoying that some ppl doin it 2day whilst others on friday, its getin really annoyin that i dont even care no more, muslim ummah cant even unite on a simple thing as eid, its a shame.

flower β€” Thu, 3 Nov 2005 - 11:51

[quote="angel"][quote="flower"][quote="angel"]My eid is on Friday...some here are doin eid 2mor whilst others friday...

Happy eid to those celebratin 2mro!

What bout everyone?[/quote]

We celebratin friday too, although the bengali community here is celebrating tomorow (or technically today!) eid mubarak to everyone[/quote]

Its really annoying that some ppl doin it 2day whilst others on friday, its getin really annoyin that i dont even care no more, muslim ummah cant even unite on a simple thing as eid, its a shame.[/quote]

i agree

muslim_kuri β€” Thu, 3 Nov 2005 - 11:59

friday here 2...wel if it woz 2day i wudnt be typing dis rite nw lol

Medarris β€” Fri, 4 Nov 2005 - 01:52

my post was deleted here aswell, where i made clear that this is a non issue. can i ask y it was deleted.

You β€” Fri, 4 Nov 2005 - 13:25

It was deleted coz you're evil!

erm... dunno.

star β€” Fri, 4 Nov 2005 - 14:06

i knew it couldnt have been admin... MR ED who else has mircha LOL.

Sajid Iqbal β€” Fri, 4 Nov 2005 - 18:37

[quote="naj"]i knew it couldnt have been admin... MR ED who else has mircha LOL.[/quote]
mircha???
i only delete posts which are either offensive, insulting, sectarian, will lead to fitnah etc... alot of Meds posts fit in that category..it must have been one of them.
I dont delete many posts...if i did ...then there must have been a valid reason.I dont delete posts simply because i disagree with them, if that was the case then most of meds and a few others would have been deleted. πŸ˜‚

and naj...i think Med can fight his own battles...i dont think he needs you to back him up every single time, for every single thing πŸ˜ƒ

Medarris β€” Fri, 4 Nov 2005 - 23:44

well I am pretty certain my post was not offensive, but no biggie, Ed u delete what u want, if it makes you happy.

star β€” Sat, 5 Nov 2005 - 02:38

[quote="TheRevivalEditor"]and naj...i think Med can fight his own battles...i dont think he needs you to back him up every single time, for every single thing :D[/quote]

LOL...u funny coz i dont hahaha, and BTW what battles u on about lol?????
eh have i been missin out coz das not rite. πŸ™‚