Divided between two different conflicting worlds.
Am I British, Muslim or am I both.

I consider myself to be “British” by attending a white British run university, being taught by white British lecturers and working alongside white British people.

I consider myself to be “British” by befriending and socialising with white British people.

I consider myself to be “British” by wearing western clothes, speaking the British language and eating the British food.

I soon realised it is not enough to be classed as “British” by dressing as they do, speaking their language, and eating their food.

I will never be fully 100% British because I refuse to drink alcohol, date, wear revealing clothes, go clubbing etc.

These criteria’s according to the media and the secular society make a person “British”.

If they are not followed then you are not British, you are rejected from society and cast aside.

I long for acceptance but I know deep down this will never happen for the simple reason that I am a Muslim and I refuse to participate in anything that will conflict with Sharia law.

I have two options:

If I choose to be 100% “British” then there is no room for religion, I must therefore participate in haram activities in order to fulfil the stereotypical definition of what constitutes as “British”.

If I choose to be a Muslim I will never be accepted for whom I am and will be permanently rejected by the “British” society.

Many state that it is possible to be both British and Muslim but you can never be both.

Therefore I choose to be a Muslim, I choose beautiful Islam

'Ed, what was bumping the last topic?

I should set my watch by this subject. far more reliable than the time on my phone!

As a Muslim living in Britain I am grateful that I am not in any other country in the world:

-Islam is dying in places like Morocco, Tunisia, Turkey and Malaysia.
-There are no political or cultural freedoms throughout the Middle East.
-There is civil war and political unrest across Asia and Africa.
-Extreme earthquakes, famine, drought and flooding effects many of the remaining Muslim-majority countries.
-Much of Europe is either anti-religion or anti-Muslim in terms of policy and way of life.
-Don't get me started on the problems in American Society.

Only in Britain do you get large, [b]crowded[/b] mosques, many young people actively participating in religious activites, along with freedom of expression and fair elections. Here, Halal food is readily available, healthcare is free and workplaces have a duty to respect our religious practices. Education quality is high (and it is free), unemployment is low and my British Passport enables me to travel most of the world with few problems.

What is there to complain about?

The only other country that is similar in many respects to this is Canada.

It will remain like this until Muslim countries get leaders who are not corrupt, incompetent, ignorant or all three

I am Muslim and British.
You see, you can be a Muslim as well as British. You can also be a Kaafir and be British. But you can never be a Kaafir and a Muslim at the same time. Either you are a Kaafir, or you are a Muslim.

It means you can wear shorts and play tennis!

"mmm" wrote:

It means you can wear shorts and play tennis!

as long as the shorts cover ur knees!

i am proud to be a muslim

im proud to wear a scarf

im proud of my values and morals as defined by my religion

im proud of the best way of life as layed down for me by my religion

im also proud to be British

im proud of the fair and just legal system

im proud of the education system

im proud of the organisation of my government

im proud of the NHS

im proud of the fact that is country is tolerant and allow me to practise my religion

i have no links with my paki identity - except for my love of asian food and dress

hhhmmm a whole lot of Pride there.

Out of all the deadly sins pride is possibly the worst

[size=24]ISLAM is my religion and being BRITISH is my nationality. And I am proud to be both at the same time!!!

[/size][color=darkblue][/color]

"peacegirl" wrote:

[size=24]ISLAM is my religion and being BRITISH is my nationality. And I am proud to be both at the same time!!!

[/size][color=darkblue][/color]

no need to shout... we can all read.

"Seraphim" wrote:

"peacegirl" wrote:

[size=24]ISLAM is my religion and being BRITISH is my nationality. And I am proud to be both at the same time!!!

[/size][color=darkblue][/color]

no need to shout... we can all read.

[size=24]thanks for letting me know!!!![/size] [size=9][/size]sorry!

I couldnt help but notice but everybody on this thread has said they are proud to be British but you have failed to state what is it that makes you feel British. Do you call yourself British because you hold a british passport? or it it something more which you feels makes you British? Hope that makes sense.
Please elaborate.

I like many other muslims I have been born and raised in the U.K., therefore there is no doubt in my mind that i am british , I enjoy all the benefits of this country e.g. good education, good facilities, good standard of living, freedoms ect

But i am sick and tired of these questions as it always comes to the same annoying answer, [b]we need to integrate, we need to show that we are more british , we need to socalise with non-muslims more, we need to support england ect ect [/b]

gggrrrr :x

we are born here, we talk your langauge, we share your sports/tv/politics, we go to your educational institions , we work along side you as doctors, psychology , lawyers , accountants , we run businesses (we drive your taxis and make your currys :twisted: ) ect

arent we integrated enough :?: :?

NO because to be british you need to go to the pub, get drunk , dont wear beards, hijabs , islamic clothing

and thats how many white british people see things , to them we can never be 100% british , we will always be a security threat, we need to be monitered with id cards and stop checks, muslims shouldnt wear veils or beards ect ect

integrating is a two way thing , maybe the answer is for the rest of briton to try and integrate with us so we can have a melting pot an understanding of both cultures which we can both eqaully understand and respect owing to the fact that we all share a british identity

yes we are british and that cannot be taking away from us, and we are muslims which will never be takenb away from us we are [b]british muslims [/b]but for the rest of Britain we are [b]muslims only[/b]

Most people have posted reasonable comments but I'm sorry to disagree with Naz and NAS786. It is a nonsense to complain that you are not recognised as British Muslims. This is failing to recognise your acceptance by British non-Muslims.

"Naz" wrote:

Divided between two different conflicting worlds.
Am I British, Muslim or am I both.

I consider myself to be “British” by attending a white British run university, being taught by white British lecturers and working alongside white British people.

I consider myself to be “British” by befriending and socialising with white British people.

I consider myself to be “British” by wearing western clothes, speaking the British language and eating the British food.

I soon realised it is not enough to be classed as “British” by dressing as they do, speaking their language, and eating their food.

Either you are British because you are British or you are not. None of the above makes you as British as your passport does.

Quote:

I will never be fully 100% British because I refuse to drink alcohol, date, wear revealing clothes, go clubbing etc.

These criteria’s according to the media and the secular society make a person “British”.
If they are not followed then you are not British, you are rejected from society and cast aside.

What offensive rubbish! Sorry Naz.

Quote:

I long for acceptance but I know deep down this will never happen for the simple reason that I am a Muslim and I refuse to participate in anything that will conflict with Sharia law.

I have two options:

If I choose to be 100% “British” then there is no room for religion, I must therefore participate in haram activities in order to fulfil the stereotypical definition of what constitutes as “British”.

If I choose to be a Muslim I will never be accepted for whom I am and will be permanently rejected by the “British” society.

Many state that it is possible to be both British and Muslim but you can never be both.

Therefore I choose to be a Muslim, I choose beautiful Islam

Ri-ight.

"NAS786" wrote:

I like many other muslims I have been born and raised in the U.K., therefore there is no doubt in my mind that i am british , I enjoy all the benefits of this country e.g. good education, good facilities, good standard of living, freedoms ect

But i am sick and tired of these questions as it always comes to the same annoying answer, we need to integrate, we need to show that we are more british , we need to socalise with non-muslims more, we need to support england ect ect

gggrrrr Mad

So you do then.

Quote:

we are born here, we talk your langauge, we share your sports/tv/politics, we go to your educational institions , we work along side you as doctors, psychology , lawyers , accountants , we run businesses (we drive your taxis and make your currys Twisted Evil ) ect

arent we integrated enough Question Confused

As long as you're friendly, yes. I'm sure you can think of people who aren't. We all know who this debate over integration is really about.

Quote:

NO because to be british you need to go to the pub, get drunk , dont wear beards, hijabs , islamic clothing

and thats how many white british people see things , to them we can never be 100% british , we will always be a security threat, we need to be monitered with id cards and stop checks, muslims shouldnt wear veils or beards ect ect

There we go again with the offensive assumptions. This is one big victim complex and an insult to the intelligence of the public, not to mention a racist slur albeit probably ill-considered.

Quote:

integrating is a two way thing , maybe the answer is for the rest of briton to try and integrate with us so we can have a melting pot an understanding of both cultures which we can both eqaully understand and respect owing to the fact that we all share a british identity

If you mean liberal tolerance and religious educaton, I believe you get that.

Quote:

yes we are british and that cannot be taking away from us, and we are muslims which will never be takenb away from us we are british muslims but for the rest of Britain we are muslims only

In your head.

The reason I reply to this is that the comments enable a certain view that gives Muslims an excuse to be cynical about Britan, not to feel integrated and not to try. They are the views of people who have not been alienated by anyone but themselves. We can all make the same complaints and they are nothing but excuses for others to feed upon.

i'v seen this from both sides and to be honest, i have to disagree with some mr honey's criticisms.
-MOST people were offended when i told them i gave up alcohol (!)
-one person told me (before I was musim) that unless you're a recoving alcoholic, if you dont drink you are untrustworthy and deranged (?)
-i've seen close up how my friends with beards or 'islamic dress' get treated by people compared to how they treat me.

To be honest, i HATE nationalism in ALL forms, whether its being 'proud' to be british, pakistani, palestinian, american, german or anything. nationalism is a man-made concept, and it has caused many, many deaths.

WHAT IS THERE TO BE PROUD ABOUT ANYWAY?! i didn't invent the railway! or the telephone! or the internet! or conquer and mess-up most of the world! just because someone who lived in a vaguely similar area of the world did something in history, HOW DOES THAT MAKE ME ANY BETTER?!?!

I would be PROUD if I did well in my exams, or learned how to do something that i found difficult. This is because I would have ACHIEVED something to be PROUD of!

The son of prophet Nur (as) didn't get blessed because of his ancestry, and prophet Ibrahim (as) didn't get penalised because of his. why should I?

Does being born and raised in britain make me fortunate? yes

But i don't see 'britishness' as part of my personality or identity, anymore than i see having blue eyes or being 6'1" as part of my identity. Am i proud to have blue eyes?

WHY ON EARTH WOULD I BE PROUD TO HAVE BLUE EYES?!?!?!?!?!

/rant over. apologies if it makes little sense, this is because its 4.38 in the morning.
WHY ON EARTH IS IT 4.38 IN THE MORNING?!?!?!

Happens.

I accept your response for what it is, but see your examples as no different to the reactions I get for being overtly Jewish or mentioning I'm vegetarian. In any part of the world people will form opinions on what they consider different, out of respect and contempt and everything in between, and that makes you no less of a citizen. I'm British, Jewish, vegetarian, artistic, apparently a "type b" . I've had experience of being physically pushed around for being Jewish, but it was clear from others around me that such an attitude is unwelcome and not quintessentially a part of our British culture. No matter how many people fail to understand some aspect of my identity those that cannot tolerate it are invariably in a minority. I believe that is as true of Islam. I believe that it is no good to labour under this complaint. As I see it the call for Muslim communities to integrate is not a judgement on every Muslim, and if you can say you are an upstanding citizen that's good, a notch above many non-Muslim louts who blight the streets, but it is a call for the community as a whole, by declaring an affiliation to the state, encouraging friendliness and following the educational curriculum, to stamp out hostile Qutbist extremism. I do not think many Revival members truly represent the problem, but it is evident elsewhere, including other web forums where the cynic's view predominates.

"Mr Honey's Day Out" wrote:

Quote:

integrating is a two way thing , maybe the answer is for the rest of briton to try and integrate with us so we can have a melting pot an understanding of both cultures which we can both eqaully understand and respect owing to the fact that we all share a british identity

If you mean liberal tolerance and religious educaton, I believe you get that.

The reason I reply to this is that the comments enable a certain view that gives Muslims an excuse to be cynical about Britan, not to feel integrated and not to try. They are the views of people who have not been alienated by anyone but themselves. We can all make the same complaints and they are nothing but excuses for others to feed upon.

If we have liberal tolerance then why is it that Jack Straw in such a high position in the political spectrum would make anti-muslim comments about not wearing veils, as well as countless other cases of women with hijabs being refused jobs and not allowed in certain place, attacks on muslims have gone up ect ect , i can go on and give you many examples of how muslims are being targeted but i wont.

with all due respect you are not muslim and therefore you dont have a clue of whats it like being muslim in britain and therefore not in a position to falsify the comments i have written, im sure if i sed that jews in germany werent being prosecuted in nazi germany rather they just blamed nazis and didnt try, they just complained and used victim mentality ect , you would find that offensive ( not that im saying their both the same)

however i do agree with you that muslims shouldnt feel cynical in britain or anything like that , this country has done alot for us and gives us many freedoms that we would not get in other muslim countries and many muslims including myself are happy and grateful for being british but their is issues in british society which need to be addressed so muslims can feel apart of britian and Britons can feel muslims are apart of Britain so we dont have any more cases of BNPs and suicide attacks

Tolerance works both ways.

People tolerate your beliefs. You tolerate their criticism of your beliefs.

Mr Honey
Just because a Muslim holds a British passport doesn’t mean to say they will automatically be recognised by the UK secular society as 100% British. To them we are either "terrorists", "pakis" etc. In order to "fit in" one must embrace the so called British culture ie drinking clubbing etc, only then will we be truly classed as British. I agree with Nas786 on the issue of integration. It is very offensive to say that Muslims don’t integrate and that is where the problem lies. On the issue of Jack Straw and the veil business i think the response of the Muslim population was disproportionate in regards to Jack Straws remarks. Lets not forget covering the face is a CULTURAL practice and NOT religion. However, if a women chooses to cover her face then its her business and if any public body challenges her dress code they will automatically be in breach of the Human Rights Act 1998.

Don't get me wrong i don't have anything against the UK im glad to be born here. The UK is one of the very few countires that actually allow you to practice your faith openly.

"NAS786" wrote:

If we have liberal tolerance then why is it that Jack Straw in such a high position in the political spectrum would make anti-muslim comments about not wearing veils, as well as countless other cases of women with hijabs being refused jobs and not allowed in certain place, attacks on muslims have gone up ect ect , i can go on and give you many examples of how muslims are being targeted but i wont.

I don't think Jack Straw made anti-Muslim comments. I do think society is liberal and tolerant.

Quote:

with all due respect you are not muslim and therefore you dont have a clue of whats it like being muslim in britain and therefore not in a position to falsify the comments i have written, im sure if i sed that jews in germany werent being prosecuted in nazi germany rather they just blamed nazis and didnt try, they just complained and used victim mentality ect , you would find that offensive ( not that im saying their both the same)

Well then what are you saying?

Quote:

however i do agree with you that muslims shouldnt feel cynical in britain or anything like that , this country has done alot for us and gives us many freedoms that we would not get in other muslim countries and many muslims including myself are happy and grateful for being british but their is issues in british society which need to be addressed so muslims can feel apart of britian and Britons can feel muslims are apart of Britain so we dont have any more cases of BNPs and suicide attacks

It seems to me this contradicts everything you said above.

I think drinking, clubbing, dating, being foul mouthed, rude etc etc is a very stereotypical image of what ‘being British’ actually is.

I feel British and am accepted as being British by my non Muslim friends, without having to compromise my faith or partaking in any of the above.

Honesty, law and order, tolerance, an organised system, and fairness is what I associate with Britain, and I feel proud to be part of that.

"Naz" wrote:

Lets not forget covering the face is a CULTURAL practice and NOT religion.

errr no it's not. niqaab isn't seen as a cultural practice by any culture. it's regarded as fardh or wajib by sum.

why is this being portrayed as a "muslim" issue? Other minorities feel like they'll never be accepted by mainstream british society either, its not just muslims who feel like this. It's a problem the government created and its unfair to blame muslims as some of u here are doing. The government created these ghettos when they invited ethnic groups over for jobs they needed to fill. Rather than encouraging mixing they created ghettos where all the bengalis, pakistanis, sikhs, hindus, jews, african/jamaicans and other minorities could live in. Today ppl continue to live like this coz of the comfort factor. ppl just feel more at ease with those of a similar background to them, nothing racist about it. But this ghetto culture creates problems with integration and tolerance for others ppls beliefs. If the gov bothered to do some research they'd realise many of the integration problems present within muslim communities also exist in other communities such as those mentioned above, and not withstanding the caucasian communities. It's all a result of isolation.

being british doesn;t have to be synon. with ones religious beliefs, who cares what the government is saying? Prior to 9/11 did the gov ever speak of british muslims? When have u heard the term british sikh, british hindu, being thrown around, erm never. Now all a sudden we have to take issue with religion. either we accept our nationality as superior or religion. Well i don't think we need to they're separate issues.

Agree with Yashmaki.

they arent conflicting, and bieng Muslim is the most important thing that matters to me. Doesnt mean being british dont, i like being here and part of the UK. But i aint crazy about britain, every country has good and bad points, i may want to move, i may not. I like pakistan too.

this whole bieng british, asian, muslim, western etc issue is stupid IMO.

u like pakiland :shock:

i lasted 1 and 4 days. never going bak

"Noor" wrote:

u like pakiland :shock:

i lasted 1 and 4 days. never going bak

everyone has different experiences. All depends on who your with, where you go and get up2. Like anywhere in the world

"Sirus" wrote:

"Noor" wrote:

u like pakiland :shock:

i lasted 1 and 4 days. never going bak

everyone has different experiences. All depends on who your with, where you go and get up2. Like anywhere in the world

true, every1s different, i guess it wasn't as bad as i made it out to be, islamabad is top, sum of the areas are better than uk :shock: other than that, lahore was great a esp. getting to meet qibla huzoor

"Noor" wrote:

"Naz" wrote:

Lets not forget covering the face is a CULTURAL practice and NOT religion.

errr no it's not. niqaab isn't seen as a cultural practice by any culture. it's regarded as fardh or wajib by sum.

It is a cultural practice no where in the holy Qu'ran does it state that a women is obliged to cover her face. If see chooses to then thats her own choice but it has nothing to do with Islam!

pakiland is a mans world. The guys are free to do whatever they please while womens rights are somewhat limited. I mean you can't even go shopping on your own! you have to take at least one guy or an older women with you. Went for 6 weeks and was counting the days from day 1.