Top 10 Dilemmas of the Muslim soldier in the British Army
http://www.7cgen.com/index.php?showtopic=7606
By Showkat Ali
1.Constantly having to prove yourself to your colleagues that your more British and loyal to the Union Jack than you are to Islam and Muslims
2.Agree with your colleagues when they bad mouth Muslims and Islam and not say anything even though u know that they are talking B……T and are ignorant and racist.
3.Not pray or fast in Ramadhan because that would label you a fanatic.
4.Keep quite when Muslim men, women and children are interrogated (abused) Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo style. Even forced to participate just to prove that your loyal to Britain
5.Accept military rations because to ask for halal meat would portray u as a fundamentalist Muslim.
6.Have hatred and contempt for your forefathers who fought and resisted British colonialism in the 1920s and 30s because like u they didn’t join the British army to kill fellow Muslims and establish colonial rule.
7.Rejected by your community, friends and family as a traitor ,chamcha and ghulam of the British
8.A minority of Muslims might plan and plot to kidnap u, torture u and record your beheading to be posted on the internet as a warning and deterrent to others who might be considering a career in the Crusader armies.
9.Find it difficult to get married to a practicing Muslim woman who wants a husband that the children would be proud of.
10.Problems on the day of judgement when Allah swt rejects your martyrdom because u died fighting under the union jack and promoting the colonialist Crusader agenda.
Please forward widely, post on discussion boards, mailing lists and edit and add as u please. JazakAllah khair in advance
May Allah swt keep the Muslims communities unified in this time of great pressure and test. May Allah swt humiliate those who accuse believers without evidence and expose them as the liars once again e.g Iraq war, forest Gate raid, Muslims in Guantanamo bay etc. Please
Help the ummah and forward this article.
Author: Showkotali@hotmail.com
Are you speaking from personal experience?
Why?
No Beast I am not speaking from personal expereince, but then i think u know that already .
My request asking people to forward is obvious, but i will elaborate for your benefit, its to create a discussion and debate on this issue in a calm and Islamic manner.
Mecca Da Lyrical Berretta
Its not really about having a problem with Britain per se, but having the courage to disagree and debate certain issues which i disagree with.
[url]www.7cgen.com[/url], the place to be
this topic reminds me of the latest dramatic dawn raids police made on homes in sparkhill area of Brum, early this morn. No one knows anything but the bbc seems to have news that there was an alleged plot to kidnap a member of the British army. No matter what the reason i feel sorry for the residents of sparkhil. It's a deprived area as it is, and this drama will not benefit the rest of the residents living there who just want to get on with their lives. Already reporters are calling sparkhill a hub of terrorist activity. residents and mps have denied this but hey that's reporters for you.
another point is that UK army are americas closest allies , their 'bumchums' their loyal allies in tyranny , abuse and general atrocities agasint civillians , so fighting for UK is the equivalent as fighting for the USA
i wonder when Uk army will come the 200th regiment of the USA army :roll:
and alum rock i heard
thank god my sister moved out that dump...no offence to anyone that lives there come on u know tis true :shock:
i have to say what weak, bias, untrue and rubbish points
ok, u dont agree in joining the army but your reasons are just a shambles...sorry!
So how long did it take to MAKE UP these reasons??!!
live and let live!!!!!!!
Revival editor
Interesting use of words to describe my article, I suppose i have to respect you for your honesty, but then again I would have thought that Islam had nice adhaab when it came to disagreeing and giving advice.
I wonder what would happen if i responded in kind and said i think u are a .... and your opinions are ..........? And we wonder why and how hatred and dislike is created between brothers, hmm.
You or anyone else has the right to disagree but please remember that we are all accountable for our actions and if anyone abuses or insults me or undermines my dawah i always complain to Allah swt. I just hope that on the day of judgement people are not punished because of my duas and their own actions.
Also if u read the newspapers abour many Muslims and others namely black people and even whites u will find many cases of bullying, sexism and racism cited, but then again some people consider themselves so loyal to the British establishment that they would not believe such reports.
i wonder what these people recite when they pray, surely not surah Kafiroon?
[url]www.7cgen.com[/url], the place to be
well u know my words by now...i say it how it is.... i dont mean to insult you. I have nothing aginst you.
Just that your arguments are weak, dont make sense, full of hatred , no logic, are untrue and some are so weak....
bro ur points need evidence to back up your claims.... not just hot air.
'Ed, can we have a point by point critique?
(I actually agree with you here, but you need to back up your own points.)
I do not accept 'it is weak' as a point. it is an opinion and unlike what they say at school, they can be wrong.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
thats an excellent post brother Showkat. I guess we're all guilty of failing to keep the high standards in A'dab.
i kindly request that you don't complain to Allah regard our bad manners, let me assure you bro. all of us on here do have good intentions.
btw your first post on the soldiers was an excellent one.
i like this one
i can imagine him sending his son to madrasa and the friends asking:
[b][i]"so what does your dad do?"
"he's in Iraq killing loadsa Muslims"
"does he get paids lots"
"just under [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/02/wtroops2... wage[/url], he enjoys it"[/i][/b]
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
[b]A REPLY TO YOUR 'ARGUMENTS':[/b]
1.Constantly having to prove yourself to your colleagues that your more British and loyal to the Union Jack than you are to Islam and Muslims
[b]WHY? WHY DO YOU SAY THAT? NO ONE HAS TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ANYONE? THIS IS JUST AN ASSUMPTION YOU HAVE MADE BASED ON NOTHING[/b]
2.Agree with your colleagues when they bad mouth Muslims and Islam and not say anything even though u know that they are talking B……T and are ignorant and racist.
[b]AGAIN JUST ASSUMPTIONS. WHO SAID YOU CANT SPEAK UP OR DISAGREE WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES. [/b]
3.Not pray or fast in Ramadhan because that would label you a fanatic.
[b]WHAT CAN I SAY! OBVIOUSLY YOU DONE NO RESEARCH ON THIS. I KNOW MUSLIMS WHO WERE IN THE ARMY AN DPARAYED, FASTED AND ARE PRACTISING MUSLIMS. [/b]
4.Keep quite when Muslim men, women and children are interrogated (abused) Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo style. Even forced to participate just to prove that your loyal to Britain
[b]NOTHING TO DO WITH LOYALTY. ABU GHURAIB AND GUANTANAMO ARE NOT IN CONTROL OF ORDINARY SOLDIERS IN THE ARMY. THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.SO YOUR ARGUMENT HERE IS BASELESS.[/b]
5.Accept military rations because to ask for halal meat would portray u as a fundamentalist Muslim.
[b]THAT WAS FUNNY. WHEN YOU WROTE THIS DID YOU ASK ANY MUSLIM WHO IS OR HAS BEEN IN THE ARMY? I HAV ESPOKEN TO MUSLIMS IN THE ARMY AND THEY ONLY EAT HALAL OR VEGETARIAN. SO YOUR HATRED IS CLOUDING THE TRUTH.[/b]
6.Have hatred and contempt for your forefathers who fought and resisted British colonialism in the 1920s and 30s because like u they didn’t join the British army to kill fellow Muslims and establish colonial rule.
[b]NO COMMENT. ONLY HALF DECENT POINT IN THIS ESSAY. THE ISSUE OF KILLING FELLOW MUSLIMS AND FIGHTING ISLAMIC LANDS.
[/b]
7.Rejected by your community, friends and family as a traitor ,chamcha and ghulam of the British
[b]AGAIN THIS IS IMMATURE. THOSE WHO CALL PEOPLE THESE NAMES ARE ONES WHO NEED TO GROW UP. I DON'T KNOW ANYONE WHO IS REJECTED BY THE COMMUNITY COS THEY'RE IN THE ARMY.[/b]
8.A minority of Muslims might plan and plot to kidnap u, torture u and record your beheading to be posted on the internet as a warning and deterrent to others who might be considering a career in the Crusader armies.
[b]SO IS THAT THE FAULT OF THE MUSLIMS IN THE ARMY. ITS THE PROBLEM THESE NUTTERS NEED TO SORT OUT. NOT THE REASON FOR ANY MUSLIM NOT TO JOIN THE ARMY. YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE LAUGHABLE[/b]
9.Find it difficult to get married to a practicing Muslim woman who wants a husband that the children would be proud of.
[b]SO IF YOU'RE IN THE ARMY YOUR CHILDREN CANT BE PROUD OF YOU....HAHAHHAH...C'MON.
SO IF YOU ARE A DODGY IMAM, DO TAX FRAUD, BUT HAVE LONG BEARD ITS OK...YOU'RE KIDS WILL BE PROUD OF YOU!
YOU'RE POINTS ARE GETTING MORE DESPERATE![/b]
10.Problems on the day of judgement when Allah swt rejects your martyrdom because u died fighting under the union jack and promoting the colonialist Crusader agenda.
[b]ONLY ALLAH IS THE JUDGE NOT YOU.[/b]
[i]IM NOT IN FAVOUR OF JOINING THE ARMY BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE ARGUMENTS YOU HAVE PUT FORWARD. YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE FULL OF HATRED FOR THE WEST, BRITAIN, BRITISH WAY OF LIFE AND ITS VALUES.
I WOULDN'T JOIN THE BRITISH ARMY BECAUSE I KNOW I WOULD END UP FIGHTING IN CAUSES WHICH I TOTALLY DO NOT BELIEVE IN EG IRAQ WAR. [/i]
[b]
An uncomfortable place for a Muslim?[/b]
Muslims make up a tiny proportion of Britain's armed forces - less than 0.3% of the total.
But they are vital to an organisation that wants to show military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are not wars against Islam.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6320719.stm[/url]
A QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE FOR SHOWKAT:
thing is since the proverbial has hit the fan in Iraq, the troops are concentrating more on stopping Iraqi's killing Iraqi's than actually going on an offensive themselves.
I agree that being part iof the armed assault on the country would be wrong. For anyone, muslim or non-muslim.
However now it is more trying to protect life. Trying to stop things from going worse.
Onlyu issue atm is that the coalition seems to only be concentrating on the 'sunni' threat, while giving the 'shiite' threat a carte blanche to do as they wish.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
good points ED!
live and let live!!!!!!!
That is not an explanation from Islam to say that this is how u are, we should all seek to learn manners from the Prophet Muhammed saw and improve our conduct so that we do not fall into sin, this applies to me as well. If my arguments are full of what u claim then please refute them as u have attempted to do, also the point about evidence also applies to u, because its better to lead by example.
Final point for everyone who has insulted me in the past and is thnking of doing so in the future, please fear Allah swt because i will complain in my duas for any pain u cause me and i intend to bring u to account on the day of judgement, so i apologise to anyone i have insulted or offended with my words, please forgive me. If u have insulted me then u know what u have to do.
[url]www.7cgen.com[/url], the place to be
what about the predicament we are not supposed to kill muslims. there have been soldiers who have taken leave but most are forced to go into muslim countries i.e iraq afghanistan and often end up killing innocent muslims not always "terrorists". Can the excuse i was forced by command to go hold up with God? I believe muslims need to think about these issues before signing up you can't blame your commander for killing another muslim you were well aware of ur duties before u signed up.
For this reason i wouldn't encourage any son i have to join the army. if this wasn't an issue it could be a possibility.
who's insulted you?
if i say your arguments are weak- is that an insult?
c'mon bro...
this is a discussion forum where everything goes... i disagree with you but do not insult or ridicule you.
A soldier makes your safety his personal responsibility.
I think you missed the word 'good' out.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Nope. That's ^ what a soldier is. War criminals and the like are not soldiers, they are criminals.
That's something else.
I totally agre with showkat regarding personal insults. as if that and CAPS + BOLD is supposed to strengthen argument.. come on now, we've all had experience of forums for long enough to know how it all works.. :roll:
Its an 'Islamic' forum. If the 'leaders' of this board do not lead by example, it won't surprise me if members start complaining to Allah.. again I urge brother Showkat to hold back and forgive us before it gets to that. He definatly has a case, its written all over this thread.
-- back on topic
The way I see it,.. it is a 'bad thing' to serve a Govt who takes a nation to war on lies.. as well as the 10 points brother showkat has so kindly compiled.
There's been no decent opposition of his points, just 'mindless jibberish'. im sorry if these words offend. before anyone complains, i urge them to have a look at some the insulting words already used on here.
Peace
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
khan where have i insulted showkat... i totally disagree with his points
i have replied to each of his points...its a shame you find them jibberish... yet find showkats baseless arguments so cool...
its sad...
showkat is just playing the victim and ppl like you fall for it
i dont agree with joining the british army but c'mon showkats points are just so bad. if i rip his points apart it dont mean i am disrespecting him but disagreeing with his arguments.
im not here to play happy families....
If 'Ed don't agree with joining the army and finds those points weak, that is something.
I myself have no issue with a Muslim joining the British army.
I would even go as far to say that I probably have no issue with them serving in Iraq. (not during the original occupation phase [which I outright opposed], but the current stop the sh*t hitting the fan phase.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Salaams All
Jzk brother Khan for your kind words. Its posisble to disagree Islamically take a look at how admin disagrees with revival editor.
Yet again Revival editor accuses me, this time of playing the victim, so i guess my advice was disregarded by him. Maybe i should respond in kind with abuse and insults even call a few people munafiq and kaffirs just to prove a point and get the admin to step in and enforce the Islamic adhaab?
Revival editor asked me to back up my arguments with evidences, his response contains nothing from islamic evidences at all, yet he has the audacity to ask me to provide evidences.
Also Admin admits to being a supporter of joining the brit army, why then does Revival Editor not ask him for his evidences, in this instance me and Rev Ed are in agreement although based on different points of view, mine being from Islam.
[url]www.7cgen.com[/url], the place to be
That is a fact of life. You always have to prove yourself. In everything. Unless that is if you do not care about others opinions, nor their consequences.
Why would you have to agree? I do not see any correlation here. It is just like saying you should not work in a call centre becasue you have to agree with someone elses moronic comments. A false argument Once again why? Why is this specific to the army? And why is ti relevant? fasting is about what you do NTO do, so it is hard for others to label you. No matter what job you do, you should pray, and any occupation can have people who question why you pray. Probably less for the army as ther fear of death may make you more likely to pray... Why would you have to keep quiet? You can refuse the task. You can kick up a fuss. There is such a thing as conscientious objectors. How do you know they do not supply halal rations? and they have to cater to their employees. Why does asking for halal food portray you as a fundamentalist? you could ask for a vegan diet if ti matters that much to you. Once again why? Why would it build hatred in you? You should do thing because you feel the need to, not because someone else will approve/disapprove. A minority of muslims may decide to kidnap make videos and behead a normal british worker. Afterall his tax money is funding the government to fund its overseas aggression. You only hide behind pride when you are in the wrong. If you are right pride does not matter. You will do the task because it is the right thing to do. It is a bit rich for you to decide how Allah (swt) will judge someone. What if the soldier died saving a child from a suicide bomber?I tried to stay out of this, but I may aswell post to show what i ahve issues with, and also how to have a prioper answer to the post, instead of saying things like 'well, you stink'.
If the arguments are weak my critique should help you form stronger arguments in the future. Find out which arguments are due to prejudice and which ones aer real.
Keep such piosts going. At the least they aer an interesting counterview, at best it allows others to give their views with reasoning.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I have given my view in ther next post., but I find it a bit rich you saying your view is from Islam and mine is not.
Please provide a verse or hadith which says 'thou shalt not join the british army'.
I like to look at all siodes of an argument before dipping my toes in. Oversimplifying issues does not make your view simple. Just makes it wrong.
I can understand if people are against joining the British Army, and can probably good some strong points myself, but a weak argument is just a weak argument.
Going back, 'Ed's point by point reply to your points was not too far off. Obviously he decided to go on the offensive instead of having an unbiased look. He does lack a degree of control in his writing.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Salaams Admin
Jzk for your replies, but if u read the last bit i wrote again u will see that i was refering to Revival editors views and not yours. Apologies if u misunderstood what i wrote, maybe i should make it more clearer next time inshAllah.
I have no problems with people disagreeing with my articles or views, but please lets all maintain the Islamic adhaab and not follow non-Islamic adhaab, as has been mentioned previously this is an Islamic discussion board.
[url]www.7cgen.com[/url], the place to be
cool.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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