Straw asks Muslim women for veil rethink

You —

[quote][size=18]Straw asks women for veil rethink[/size]

[b]Muslim women in the UK who wear full veils make "better, positive relations" between communities "more difficult", Commons leader Jack Straw has said.[/b]

Concealing a face was "a visible statement of separation and of difference", the Blackburn MP wrote in the Lancashire Evening Telegraph.

He said he now asks women who have meetings with him to remove their veils so they can truly talk "face-to-face".

"My concerns could be misplaced, but I think there is an issue here," he said.

The MP for Blackburn - where Muslims make up about a quarter of the population - said: "The value of a meeting, as opposed to a letter or phone call, is that you can - almost literally - see what the other person means, and not just hear what they say."

Mr Straw later told BBC Radio Lancashire that this was "an issue that needs to be discussed because in our society, we are able to relate, particularly to strangers, by being able to read their faces, and if you can't read people's faces, that does provide some separation".

He said he understood why some women wanted to be covered, citing a recent meeting with a constituent who "said she felt more comfortable when she was outside wearing the veil and she was less troubled by people".

"What I'm saying on the other side is, would those people who do wear the veil think about the implications for community relations," he said.

[b]'Selective discrimination'[/b]

Mr Straw was home secretary from 1997 to 2001, and then foreign secretary until 2005, a period which included the build-up to, and invasion of Iraq.

He said he always made sure he had a female colleague in the room when asking someone to remove their veil - and his constituents had so far always agreed when he had asked.

Mr Straw also said he defended the right for women to wear headscarfs - which, he said, was the issue in France which had led to recent controversy.

The chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission claimed his request would lead to "selective" discrimination.

"It is astonishing that someone as experienced and senior as Jack Straw does not realise that the job of an elected representative is to represent the interests of the constituency, not to selectively discriminate on the basis of religion," said Massoud Shadjareh.

But Dr Daud Abdullah of the Muslim Council of Britain said it was up to individual Muslim women whether to wear the veil, adding he understodd the matter "does cause some discomfort to non-Muslim".

"Even within the Muslim community the scholars have different views on this.

"Our view is that if it is going to cause discomfort and that can be avoided then it can be done. The veil over the hair is obligatory."

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm]BBC News[/url][/quote]

Forum

stmark — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 22:30

[quote="TEX"]if u actually closely read my posts u wud see i asked ppl to try and reason with him...

what other changes do u think they wud make?[/quote]I don't know the situation but I think I think they want thrir country back. They feel like the government is run by dhimmis..

TEX — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 22:40

whats "dhimmis"??

FYI they control us

we dont control them

muslims are like a few percent of the population

many are "white" who have converted...

i know its sad that christianity is dead in england 😢 but life is such a b-itch.

but i aint sure wot u mean by `get thier country back`

Britain is a mult-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-religios country and we love living here and the over-whelming majority abide by the law of the land....

America is an absolout sh*t hole, the racism/prejadice is shocking :shock: , and only recently britain has started to become like that :?

TEX — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 22:45

Mark u have been reading too many conspiracy theories about muslims trying to control the world,

u poor thing

they is phycologically damaging,

keep away from them bro....

peacegirl — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 23:18

salaamz.............like the ED said!!!!!!!!!!! The niqaab is not good in the uk,,,,,,,,BUT people have the right to wear wot they want!!! I agree 100%!!! BUT!!!! OUR PRIORITY SHOULD BE TO SPREAD THE GOOD WORD OF ISLAM!!! Not argue over wheather we should or should not be allowed to wear the niqaab!! I wear a head scarf and make sure i'm dressed modestly.........and I never get any dirty looks,,,,,,,,,yet I'm within my religion. THAT IS ENOUGH FOR ME!!! like I said before........best of both worlds....

stmark — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 00:32

[quote="TEX"]excuse me m8 but being an ethical person comes before my religion, however my relgion is mostly ethical...

duz ur god really tell u to kill muslims?

in da bible it said idol worshippers should be killed, ironically beleiving god is 3 is still monthiesm :roll: ,LOL

I'm sorry but Nudists and Niqabis DO NOT harm others

u cant compare that to murder :shock:

there must be something wrong with u if u think it is a fair comparison[/quote]Ok some muslim cab drivers refuse to give blind men with dogs or people carrying alchohol a ride, should their religion be respected or should they be required to give them a ride? Most of those drivers in that cab co are muslim so it might go out of business but that is descrimination against the handicapped. That's not hypothetical either that really happened.

Beast — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 08:17

[quote="stmark"]Ok some muslim cab drivers refuse to give blind men with dogs or people carrying alchohol a ride... [/quote]

They must all be like that!

:shock:

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 12:55

Mark u seem like a very steriotypical guy

im a muslim and i LOVE dogs

i wanted to have a dog, but my mummy sed we already have plenty of dogs and bi-tches in the house.

in islam blind ppl are allowed to keep guide dogs

as for drunk passengers.... from the brothers i have spoken to they said that they had too many bad experinces with drunk ppl urinating in the cab so they dont let them in, and many drunks dont pay up, and they is abusive and racist when they is drunk.

I find it hilarious how u assume most cab drivers are muslims 😂

brother ur religion is full of BS, the bible is full of BS, but i dont go round discriminating Christians.

Dude answer me this questoin:

Is it ok for BOTH men and women to walk round topless?

You would be a sexist pig if u thought it was ok for men and not for women.

Remember there are 40 mainstream muslim sects (and hundreds of not mainstream ones), we differ in beleifs, u can't accuse us all of these "crimes".

Angel — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 14:19

Judda those remarks you made about christianity are down right ignorant. You maybe frustrated/annoyed with stmark's remarks but that doesn't mean you bring his faith into it, he is an ignorant person who is full of sterotypical views which I am sure his religion didnt teach him to do that Dave being a good example of that. (being a good example of a Christian - where is he btw?!)

There are ways of putting your views across and calling ppl Klu Klux Klan is most defo wrong, its disgusting to say the least.

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 14:54

[quote="Angel"]Judda [/quote]

its TEX

or Junaid

under the username "Judda" i left behind too many bad feelings

will u let me move on??

[quote]those remarks you made about christianity are down right ignorant. [/quote]

not at all, i have read the bible, studies christian history and had many christian friends (notice that i said "had" and not "have")

[quote]You maybe frustrated/annoyed with stmark's remarks but that doesn't mean you bring his faith into it, [/quote]

whats with the double standereds?

he can't tolerate my religion but i have to tolerate his?

when his is hardly any "better"?

[quote]he is an ignorant person who is full of sterotypical views [/quote]

he's brainwashes by islamophobic propaganda

its not really his fault

`we` need to teach him to be more tolerent

im sure he is genuinly a nice guy but we have just seen his sinister side

[quote]which I am sure his religion didnt teach him to do that Dave being a good example of that. (being a good example of a Christian - where is he btw?!)[/quote]

he's only a christian because of Anette

but he's a `cold blooded murderer`

not `litrally`

but by being completely supportive to the sh*t his country does he is no better christian then bush

[quote]There are ways of putting your views across and calling ppl Klu Klux Klan is most defo wrong, its disgusting to say the least.[/quote]

absoloutly!

Imaani — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 15:30

[quote="stmark"]
I don't just mean at just at the airport but in general. If a kkk member came up to you in his white sherets a hat wouldn't you feel insecure around him? Why would you feel inseccure? People have a right to feel secure. It's not like they're asking muslims to wear bikinis and halter tops they just want to be able to see their faces aI don't see what the big deal about it is.[/quote]

I would only feel insecure around him because he was a member of the Klu Klux Klan.

I would not feel insecure around him because of what he was wearing. That would be ridiculous. Yeah I might think it a little strange, but it wouldn't make me feel insecure in any way.

Imaani — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 15:46

[quote="stmark"]I'm from america and I don't know how the british mind thinks but I imagine if they think their security is threatened your religion will become irrelevant.
The lady looks similar to a kkk member when she dresses like that. I'm sorry for the comparison but they do. Why can't they wear regular slacks or jeans and a long sleaved blouse? They are still muslims and it shouldn't
take away from their muslimness.[/quote]

Exactly, you don't live in this country so how can you ask the above question.

Let me tell you, Muslim girls here in the UK [i]do[/i] wear jeans with long sleeved blouses and dresses.

You are a perfect example of how dangerous the media can be. You dont live here, but you have made assumptions about Muslims in the UK on the basis of a few news reports. You do not need me to tell you to not believe everything you read.

How many Muslim girls, say out of a 100, do you think wear the niqab in the UK?

I would also like to ask you, if you dont mind, what your views are on the Amish community? And what are your views on the recent school shooting?

stmark — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 16:30

[quote="TEX"]Mark u have been reading too many conspiracy theories about muslims trying to control the world,

u poor thing

they is phycologically damaging,

keep away from them bro....[/quote]It's in the koran.

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 16:34

[quote="stmark"][quote="TEX"]Mark u have been reading too many conspiracy theories about muslims trying to control the world,

u poor thing

they is phycologically damaging,

keep away from them bro....[/quote]It's in the koran.[/quote]

yeah right :roll:

provide the verse for me then

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 16:36

[quote="Angel"]What's in the Quran?[/quote]

he thinks the quran tells us to fight to have shariah implemented in the world

the ONLY time the quran tells us to fight is to fight OPPRESSION and to practice our religion in peace - kinda ironic since theres no religios freedom in sum muslim countries

stmark — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 16:52

[quote="TEX"]whats "dhimmis"??

FYI they control us

we dont control them

muslims are like a few percent of the population

many are "white" who have converted...

i know its sad that christianity is dead in england 😢 but life is such a b-itch.

but i aint sure wot u mean by `get thier country back`

Britain is a mult-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-religios country and we love living here and the over-whelming majority abide by the law of the land....

America is an absolout sh*t hole, the racism/prejadice is shocking :shock: , and only recently britain has started to become like that :?[/quote]Dhimmis are muslim second class citizens who pay jizya, like christians and jews in islamland. The government has been catering to muslims to the point of discriminating against it's own people and I just think they're not going to do that anymore. I don't know what's going to happen but something will and I think there will be more deportations of islamic radicals.

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 16:57

brother please provide the quranic verse that accuses us of trying to take over the world??

if u dont provide i will see it as nothing but slander

and if possible can u also provide the name of the translator

god bless

stmark — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 17:08

[quote="Beast"][quote="stmark"]Ok some muslim cab drivers refuse to give blind men with dogs or people carrying alchohol a ride... [/quote]

They must all be like that!

:shock:[/quote]I don't think many are like but that co was about 3/4 muslims and one blind person was stranded because the driver wouldn't pick her up and about 500 blind people filed descrimination complaints against that company.

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 17:14

a christian offended me by claiming white ppl are superior coz jesus was white...

Perhaps ur all like that! :shock:

[size=7]Dave told me Jesus was just as white as Muhammad...[/size]

stmark — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 17:43

[quote="TEX"]Mark u seem like a very steriotypical guy

im a muslim and i LOVE dogs

i wanted to have a dog, but my mummy sed we already have plenty of dogs and bi-tches in the house.

in islam blind ppl are allowed to keep guide dogs

as for drunk passengers.... from the brothers i have spoken to they said that they had too many bad experinces with drunk ppl urinating in the cab so they dont let them in, and many drunks dont pay up, and they is abusive and racist when they is drunk.

I find it hilarious how u assume most cab drivers are muslims 😂

".[/quote]No I assume most muslims don't know how to drive 😂
I'm not assuming anything but if the article was correct about 3/4 of this one cab co were muslim cab drivers who didn't want to pick up people with dogs. It's not unislamic to do that but they thought it was so they wouldn't pick them up. The blind oeople had to waut for another cab and that doesn't really hurt them but it is descrimination. The veil is scary to a lot of brits and it is not unislamic not to wear it so why wear it in public? You can wear it at your mosque or religious event but why wear it all the time?

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 17:54

[quote="stmark"]
No I assume most muslims don't know how to drive 😂 [/quote]

LOL if u saw ma boys on EID u wud know that they cant drive LOOOL

its just wiggling on da raod eenit man eenit...

[quote]
I'm not assuming anything but if the article was correct about 3/4 of this one cab co were muslim cab drivers who didn't want to pick up people with dogs. [/quote]

u can use statistic to manipulate ANYTHING

how many muslims did they ask?

did they have a genuine phobia of dogs? (admin is scared of poodles)

were they fearful incase the animal poops in the cab?

[quote]It's not unislamic to do that but they thought it was so they wouldn't pick them up. The blind oeople had to waut for another cab and that doesn't really hurt them but it is descrimination. [/quote]

to the dogs or the ppl?

[quote]The veil is scary to a lot of brits and it is not unislamic not to wear it so why wear it in public? You can wear it at your mosque or religious event but why wear it all the time?[/quote]

Many muslim women are conditioned to beleive that men cannot control themselves, so they grow up paranoid, so they wear the veil to `protect` them selves.

[The saying about the flower is poplular, but at least u can see the flower!]

then there are the women that *might* be forced

then there are women who are so ugly people have asked them to cover there faces

then those that are so pretty they have been asked to cover there face

then there are those that believe that is is compulsary and decreed by allah

and there are those shy types that like to be behind a barrier

also many muslims have created a culture where showing the body is considered shameful hence the saying `naked with clothes on` lol that saying cracks me up everytime 😂 what an oxymoron

I hope that helps

stmark — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 17:58

[quote="Angel"]Judda those remarks you made about christianity are down right ignorant. You maybe frustrated/annoyed with stmark's remarks but that doesn't mean you bring his faith into it, he is an ignorant person who is full of sterotypical views which I am sure his religion didnt teach him to do that Dave being a good example of that. (being a good example of a Christian - where is he btw?!)

There are ways of putting your views across and calling ppl Klu Klux Klan is most defo wrong, its disgusting to say the least.[/quote]I didn't call anybody ku klux klan, I was talking about the dress and that was just a comparison. I would imagine that a lot of brits are just as offended bu the veils as you are to me comparing it to the ghost costumes of the kkk.

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 18:22

i know ur a bit stupid (and america is officaly the fattest, dum.best and most hated nation in the world- lol u certianly fufill 2 of the 3 catogries, because i cant see u so i cant decide on the fat part lol, but wid all da extra large coke and burgers u prolly fufill that, unless u live on rabbit food that is)

But there is a REASON we are offended that u r comparing it to the KKK. The tiny minority of women that where it where it because of the reason i have mentioned. The reason the KKK wore the white ghost costumes was to define who they were and the reason it was white was to indicate that white skined ppl r superior, veiled women dont where veil for that...

stmark — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 18:29

[quote="Imaani"][quote="stmark"]
I don't just mean at just at the airport but in general. If a kkk member came up to you in his white sherets a hat wouldn't you feel insecure around him? Why would you feel inseccure? People have a right to feel secure. It's not like they're asking muslims to wear bikinis and halter tops they just want to be able to see their faces aI don't see what the big deal about it is.[/quote]

I would only feel insecure around him because he was a member of the Klu Klux Klan.

I would not feel insecure around him because of what he was wearing. That would be ridiculous. Yeah I might think it a little strange, but it wouldn't make me feel insecure in any way.[/quote]You've been brainwashed by the media. The kkk is a nice peaceful group, you just have to get to know them. They realy are a religion of peace. :roll:
You would feel insecure around them but if they didn't have that costume on you weouldn't feel insecure, same with the veil if they don't wear it the brits aren't likely to feel insecure. Tolerance has limits and there's a limit to what will be tolerated.

TEX — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 - 18:36

[quote="stmark"]You've been brainwashed by the media. The kkk is a nice peaceful group, you just have to get to know them. They realy are a religion of peace. :roll:
[/quote]

u have quite clearly made ur up mind about muslims

spewing ur hate on a muslim forum achieves nothing

so do one will ya!

go back to studying the stories in the bible...

bye!