Straw asks Muslim women for veil rethink

You —

[quote][size=18]Straw asks women for veil rethink[/size]

[b]Muslim women in the UK who wear full veils make "better, positive relations" between communities "more difficult", Commons leader Jack Straw has said.[/b]

Concealing a face was "a visible statement of separation and of difference", the Blackburn MP wrote in the Lancashire Evening Telegraph.

He said he now asks women who have meetings with him to remove their veils so they can truly talk "face-to-face".

"My concerns could be misplaced, but I think there is an issue here," he said.

The MP for Blackburn - where Muslims make up about a quarter of the population - said: "The value of a meeting, as opposed to a letter or phone call, is that you can - almost literally - see what the other person means, and not just hear what they say."

Mr Straw later told BBC Radio Lancashire that this was "an issue that needs to be discussed because in our society, we are able to relate, particularly to strangers, by being able to read their faces, and if you can't read people's faces, that does provide some separation".

He said he understood why some women wanted to be covered, citing a recent meeting with a constituent who "said she felt more comfortable when she was outside wearing the veil and she was less troubled by people".

"What I'm saying on the other side is, would those people who do wear the veil think about the implications for community relations," he said.

[b]'Selective discrimination'[/b]

Mr Straw was home secretary from 1997 to 2001, and then foreign secretary until 2005, a period which included the build-up to, and invasion of Iraq.

He said he always made sure he had a female colleague in the room when asking someone to remove their veil - and his constituents had so far always agreed when he had asked.

Mr Straw also said he defended the right for women to wear headscarfs - which, he said, was the issue in France which had led to recent controversy.

The chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission claimed his request would lead to "selective" discrimination.

"It is astonishing that someone as experienced and senior as Jack Straw does not realise that the job of an elected representative is to represent the interests of the constituency, not to selectively discriminate on the basis of religion," said Massoud Shadjareh.

But Dr Daud Abdullah of the Muslim Council of Britain said it was up to individual Muslim women whether to wear the veil, adding he understodd the matter "does cause some discomfort to non-Muslim".

"Even within the Muslim community the scholars have different views on this.

"Our view is that if it is going to cause discomfort and that can be avoided then it can be done. The veil over the hair is obligatory."

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm]BBC News[/url][/quote]

Forum

TEX — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 13:51

[quote="Exquisite"]

[color=MAGENTA]according to YOU[/color][/quote]

No MANY people say that

many muslims say that

i can't beleive ppl's reaction towards his comment

if u guys were not muslims i bet u wud be siding with him

TEX — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 15:16

[quote="Exquisite"][color=magenta]thats cuz it doesnt affect them, how many non-muslims do you knw who wear the niqab?[/color][/quote]

that is beside the point

they would stick up for us if the headscarf was to be banned, i know they would, i've heard them say they would,

But he said NOTHING wrong by asking for it to be removed

khan — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 15:37

Is it me, or is the media just trying to cause problems between Muslims and non-muslims?

i quote a member on another forum..
[quote]This thread is now treading the same old xenophobic boards of other such threads.

JS aks veiled women to unveil; some do/some don't. They get consulted either way. Great, for the extremely small minority involved, although to be fair JS sees a disproportionate number of them.

This has apparantly been the status quo for a while so I would question why he felt the need to raise it (in print/papers) now, though pure coincidence that there is a leadership contest coming up and he's out of the wilderness for a while.

The media jump all over it and suddenly it becomes a big deal about ANOTHER thing these bloody muslims are complaining about.
Cue "i'm sick of all their whinging; go back to your own country etc etc etc"

Cue throwing in all other latent gripes about this whigning minority

I think folks you'd find that if the Sun et al didn't lead you by the noses with such sensationalism there wouldn't be so much of a problem for so many trivial issues. Then [as someone - can't recall who - quite rightly said, reasonable requests also get tarred with this "all they do is want want want" school of thought and we get nowhere.][/quote]

TEX — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 16:02

[quote="khan"]Is it me, or is the media just trying to cause problems between Muslims and non-muslims?
[/quote]

dude incase u haven't noticed they is ALWAYS doing that

and then they harp on about the lack of unity between muslims and non-muslims

-------------------------

but this time its the fault of muslims for nit-picking and going crazy over a minor request

how many of u guys that are verbally attackiing straw have tried to see things from his point of view?

in a country where we are branded as terrorists, and there are currently 2000 muslims in this conntry under surveillence, merely asking for the niqab to be taken off is a perfectly acceptable request, if u guys were not muslims i bet most u wud be protesting it to be banned

Seraphim — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 16:23

[quote="TEX"]
he asked and did not demand nor expect
[/quote]

Asking is demandings ugly cousin Judda... today they *ask for it to be removed... tomorrow they will DEMAND for it to be banned.

Incidently did anyone see that article

[quote][b]'Male terror suspect escaped capture by disguising in veil'[/b]

London, Oct 10. (PTI): A male suspect in a major anti-terrorist investigation in Britain used a veil to disguise himself as a Muslim woman, a media report said on Monday.

The man, who was wanted in connection with serious terrorist offences, evaded arrest for several days as police searched for him across the country, The Times, daily, said.

The fact that a fugitive remained at large after disguising himself in an Islamic dress, which covered his face will further fuel the debate sparked by Jack Straw, leader of the House of Commons, about the wearing of the veil by Muslim women in the country, the report said.

Details of the man's true identity were circulated to ports and airports to try to prevent him from leaving the country. He was eventually caught and is now one of more than 90 suspects in British prisons awaiting trial on terror charges.

The suspect's name and details of the offences he is accused of cannot be revealed because of the danger of prejudicing his forthcoming trial, the report said.
[/quote]

I suppose that doesnt help matters much

Exquisite — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 19:31

[quote="TEX"][quote="Exquisite"][color=magenta]thats cuz it doesnt affect them, how many non-muslims do you knw who wear the niqab?[/color][/quote]

that is beside the point

they would stick up for us if the headscarf was to be banned, i know they would, i've heard them say they would,

But he said NOTHING wrong by asking for it to be removed[/quote]
[color=magenta]
thats not beside the point ok yes there are some non-muslims who would suppport the muslims if the headscarf was banned. muslims and non-muslims marched alongside each other for tony not to invade iraq he still did it, so whether or not we have support of non-muslims on this issue it will still happen, like another Angel mentioned[/color]

[quote="Angel"]
What worries me however is will they move onto something else and try moaning about that, ie the hijab?[/quote]

[color=magenta]totally agree with you there sis,wht do we do then?we should make a stand before its too late, he should be very careful in the way he says things, its the same as me talking to someone with piercing all over their body (no offence to any1 who is just an example) please kindly remove your your piercings cuz i would much rather see you without them,i would get battered there and then n i wouldnt blame them because no-one has the right to tell them how to dress[/color]

stmark — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 20:59

[quote="Imaani"]I am absolutely sick to death of non-muslims having a go at Islam. They make no attempt whatsoever to even try to understand, before spreading so much hate. Today there has been so much in the news regarding Islam, and of course all negative. It makes me so angry. It just seems to get worse and worse as every day goes by.[/quote]It doesn't have any thing to do with islam. It has to do with security. All the scholors that I have read say it'ss not required and to non muslims you all look scary in those things. A poll in the daily express says 96 percent of the brits want it banned. If you want to walk around looking like members of the ku klux klan you should move to an islamic country because I expect it will be banned in the near future.

TEX — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 21:17

[quote="stmark"]It doesn't have any thing to do with islam. It has to do with security.[/quote]

agreed

[quote]All the scholors that I have read say it'ss not required [/quote]

some do, we must respect all opnions (unless they harm others)

[quote]and to non muslims you all look scary in those things. [/quote]

Agreed

[quote]A poll in the daily express says 96 percent of the brits want it banned. [/quote]

that was expected

[quote]If you want to walk around looking like members of the ku klux klan you should move to an islamic country [/quote]

Whoa now hang on there!!

HOW DARE U COMPARE VEILED WOMEN TO SICKO'S LIKE THE KU KLUX KLAN?

[quote]because I expect it will be banned in the near future.[/quote]

i doubt that wud happen

zara — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 21:19

[quote]to non muslims you all look scary in those things.[/quote]

they're not scared of the veil, they're only scared because they know it's a MUSLIM under the veil.

TEX — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 22:31

Mark has opened a can of worms by comparing it to the ku klux klan

now that is not gonna go down well...wait until the others see it :twisted:

peacegirl — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 22:31

[quote="zara"][quote]to non muslims you all look scary in those things.[/quote]

they're not scared of the veil, they're only scared because they know it's a MUSLIM under the veil.[/quote]

ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT THERE IS A MUSLIM UNDER THERE???

stmark — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 23:25

[quote="TEX"][quote="Noor...*"][b][color=indigo]TEX shut up. Your making me sick.[/color][/b][/quote]

how am i?

i sed nowt wrong

i will be doing no harm if i just wore a g-string- and i can garantee u i wont be attacked by non-muslims

so whats ur bloody problem?

Straw did nowt wrong

Anywayz my lil sis is scared of the Niqab, it gives her nightmares...[/quote]The truth hurts, it always makes muslims sick. I agree with everything you have said and whether they like it or not I think it will be banned in public because it's not just a religious issue. http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006460721,00.html
I could have been anyone

Last night aviation expert David Learmount said: “[b]This is an area that can be exploited and has been in the past. In 1994 two Chechen women wearing full Muslim dress were able to board planes out of Moscow with bombs strapped under their clothing. I am sure airport staff in the UK don’t want to wait until two planes are blown out of the sky to get over their embarrassment[/b]

stmark — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 23:53

[quote="yashmaki"]Assalamu Alaikum Saima,

How can you judge a section of society as "rude" simply because they cover their faces, without bringing direct harm to others or impinging their human rights?nk.[/quote]People have a right to feel safe in their own country.Should kkk members be allowed to wear their white sheets and hood, or the nazis their swattikas and goosestep in public. You might not know about the kkk living in england but the were the peaple who dressed in white sheets and pointed hats and went around terrorizing blacks after the american civil war. A woman in a burqa andn a veil looks like one of them. The only differance is the pointed hat and the color of the cosdtume. Why can't muslims wear a regular blouse and slacks?

stmark — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 00:55

[quote="Exquisite"][color=magenta]and many who disagree with his comments too, and there is freedom of religion so if she wants to wear a niqaab she shud do so freely[/color][/quote]Would you feel comfoertable around someone in a ku klux klan outfit? You can't expect them to feel comfortable around that, espeally kids.

stmark — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 01:06

[quote="TEX"][quote="khan"]Is it me, or is the media just trying to cause problems between Muslims and non-muslims?
[/quote]

dude incase u haven't noticed they is ALWAYS doing that

and then they harp on about the lack of unity between muslims and non-muslims

-------------------------

but this time its the fault of muslims for nit-picking and going crazy over a minor request

how many of u guys that are verbally attackiing straw have tried to see things from his point of view?

in a country where we are branded as terrorists, and there are currently 2000 muslims in this conntry under surveillence, merely asking for the niqab to be taken off is a perfectly acceptable request, if u guys were not muslims i bet most u wud be protesting it to be banned[/quote]Not wearing the veil would help a lot.

stmark — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 01:29

[quote="Exquisite"][quote="TEX"][quote="Exquisite"][color=magenta]thats cuz it doesnt affect them, how many non-muslims do you knw who wear the niqab?[/color][/quote]

that is beside the point

they would stick up for us if the headscarf was to be banned, i know they would, i've heard them say they would,

But he said NOTHING wrong by asking for it to be removed[/quote]
[color=magenta]
thats not beside the point ok yes there are some non-muslims who would suppport the muslims if the headscarf was banned. muslims and non-muslims marched alongside each other for tony not to invade iraq he still did it, so whether or not we have support of non-muslims on this issue it will still happen, like another Angel mentioned[/color]

[quote="Angel"]
What worries me however is will they move onto something else and try moaning about that, ie the hijab?[/quote]

[color=magenta]totally agree with you there sis,wht do we do then?we should make a stand before its too late, he should be very careful in the way he says things, its the same as me talking to someone with piercing all over their body (no offence to any1 who is just an example) please kindly remove your your piercings cuz i would much rather see you without them,i would get battered there and then n i wouldnt blame them because no-one has the right to tell them how to dress[/color][/quote]Yeah soon you will be walking around in bikinis. I think you're jumping to conclusions. All they want to do is be able to recognize you. What's wrong with wearing blouse and pants? A lot of muslims here in the us do.

stmark — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 01:42

[quote="TEX"][quote="stmark"]It doesn't have any thing to do with islam. It has to do with security.[/quote]

agreed

[quote]All the scholors that I have read say it'ss not required [/quote]

some do, we must respect all opnions (unless they harm others)

[quote]and to non muslims you all look scary in those things. [/quote]

Agreed

[quote]A poll in the daily express says 96 percent of the brits want it banned. [/quote]

that was expected

[quote]If you want to walk around looking like members of the ku klux klan you should move to an islamic country [/quote]

Whoa now hang on there!!

HOW DARE U COMPARE VEILED WOMEN TO SICKO'S LIKE THE KU KLUX KLAN?

[quote]because I expect it will be banned in the near future.[/quote]

i doubt that wud happen[/quote]I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised And I wasn't comparing women to the klansmen only the outfit. I'm sorry if that offends you but to me that's what they look like minus the pointed hat.

stmark — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 01:53

[quote="TEX"]Mark has opened a can of worms by comparing it to the ku klux klan

now that is not gonna go down well...wait until the others see it :twisted:[/quote]I was just being honest and that doesn't come from the media so you can't say I was biased by the media.

Exquisite — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 - 10:58

[quote="stmark"][quote="Exquisite"][color=magenta]and many who disagree with his comments too, and there is freedom of religion so if she wants to wear a niqaab she shud do so freely[/color][/quote]Would you feel comfortable around someone in a ku klux klan outfit? You can't expect them to feel comfortable around that, espeally kids.[/quote]
[color=magenta]
you cant compare to that, the ku klux klan used to terrorise people whereas sisters in niqaabs have no intention of doin that[/color]
[quote]
Yeah soon you will be walking around in bikinis. I think you're jumping to conclusions. All they want to do is be able to recognize you. What's wrong with wearing blouse and pants? A lot of muslims here in the us do.[/quote]
[color=magenta]
yeah well alot of muslims think the niqab is compulsory so if they follow that opinion they have every right to wear the niqab, and no im not jumping to conclusions just looking at it realistically[/color]