Straw asks Muslim women for veil rethink

You —

[quote][size=18]Straw asks women for veil rethink[/size]

[b]Muslim women in the UK who wear full veils make "better, positive relations" between communities "more difficult", Commons leader Jack Straw has said.[/b]

Concealing a face was "a visible statement of separation and of difference", the Blackburn MP wrote in the Lancashire Evening Telegraph.

He said he now asks women who have meetings with him to remove their veils so they can truly talk "face-to-face".

"My concerns could be misplaced, but I think there is an issue here," he said.

The MP for Blackburn - where Muslims make up about a quarter of the population - said: "The value of a meeting, as opposed to a letter or phone call, is that you can - almost literally - see what the other person means, and not just hear what they say."

Mr Straw later told BBC Radio Lancashire that this was "an issue that needs to be discussed because in our society, we are able to relate, particularly to strangers, by being able to read their faces, and if you can't read people's faces, that does provide some separation".

He said he understood why some women wanted to be covered, citing a recent meeting with a constituent who "said she felt more comfortable when she was outside wearing the veil and she was less troubled by people".

"What I'm saying on the other side is, would those people who do wear the veil think about the implications for community relations," he said.

[b]'Selective discrimination'[/b]

Mr Straw was home secretary from 1997 to 2001, and then foreign secretary until 2005, a period which included the build-up to, and invasion of Iraq.

He said he always made sure he had a female colleague in the room when asking someone to remove their veil - and his constituents had so far always agreed when he had asked.

Mr Straw also said he defended the right for women to wear headscarfs - which, he said, was the issue in France which had led to recent controversy.

The chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission claimed his request would lead to "selective" discrimination.

"It is astonishing that someone as experienced and senior as Jack Straw does not realise that the job of an elected representative is to represent the interests of the constituency, not to selectively discriminate on the basis of religion," said Massoud Shadjareh.

But Dr Daud Abdullah of the Muslim Council of Britain said it was up to individual Muslim women whether to wear the veil, adding he understodd the matter "does cause some discomfort to non-Muslim".

"Even within the Muslim community the scholars have different views on this.

"Our view is that if it is going to cause discomfort and that can be avoided then it can be done. The veil over the hair is obligatory."

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm]BBC News[/url][/quote]

Forum

MuslimBro — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 01:11

There's a few people here who don't think the niqab is fardh.

People, we got to bear in mind that according to the Shafi'i school, it is obligatory for women to cover all of their bodies when they go out, including the face and hands.

And even the classical scholars of the Hanafi school consider wearing the niqab (the face veil) as wajib.

Angel — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 06:36

[quote="saima786"]guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wooooooooaah................calm down!! Dis stuff is goin' a tad ova da top!!!! I'm on tex's side. why can't people see wot he is tryin' to say?? First of all jack straw REQUESTED and NOt DEMANDED!!!! when I see a 'woman' in niqaab, 'she' even frightens me! and ED...................... banning the salwar kameez, beard, HEAD SCARF??? ERM....lets deal with this IF and when it gets to that!!!!! [/quote]

That's exactly what 100man said too but I disagree, if we decide that is is minor next time someone might come out with "oh the hijab is bad for communication coz you can't see somoene hair" (maybe not that but something silly nonetheless). I don't think niqab is required in the UK but I fully respect those sisters who feel it is compulsory on them.

Judda - You say it's not Straw's fault, everyone is responsible for their own actions but him sayin these comments allowed someone to think it was "ok" to attack someone who did the niqab. I saw the comments on the "bbc news" and they were sick, didn't realise there were so many racist Brits who felt Straw was representing the "silent majority"....

The reason I am so against this is because I don't think UK will be far off from France when it comes to banning the headscarf, I dont want to take the stance "we will deal with it when it comes" because when it comes what if more and more sisters are attacked?! Are we just going to sit and take it because our modest dress isn't part of British culture?!!

Omrow — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 09:25

Salam

I have never heard any politiacian tell a semi-naked woman to cover her bits.

Why do I often see them wishing that girls dress down, and not dress up ?

Omrow

TEX — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 12:38

[quote="Angel"]
Judda -[/quote]

please call me TEX or by my real name.

[quote]You say it's not Straw's fault, everyone is responsible for their own actions but him sayin these comments allowed someone to think it was "ok" to attack someone who did the niqab.[/quote]

thats just being stupid

nobody said attacking the lass was "ok"

Hypotheticlly speaking if it was part of person X religion to walk round stark naked and the `god of person X religion` would put X in hell for wearing clothes.

Would anyone allow X to walk round naked?

I would, its part of X's religion.

yet i would totally understand people that would oppose that.

[quote]I saw the comments on the "bbc news" and they were sick, didn't realise there were so many racist Brits who felt Straw was representing the "silent majority"....[/quote]

they are NOT racist

if u sed u did not want X to walk round naked would u be racist?

As for muslim girls finding the niqab `creepy` and can assure u sister saima is by far not the only one to feel like that.

even tho british niqabis are a tiny minority, i reckon a fair amount of them are forced to where it and find it demeaning.

khan — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 13:19

[quote="TEX"]even tho british niqabis are a tiny minority, i reckon a fair amount of them are forced to where it and find it demeaning.[/quote]

i'm pretty sure the majority of them wear it out of their own free will.

as muslim bro has mentioned, at the least the niqaab as seen as wajib. although i've told my mrs to take it off due to my insecurities of her being harrassed due to ignorant fascists in society.. she says its a fardh, its what Islam says is mandatory, therefore she wants to wear it..

i've been on jamaat with my mrs recently, where she had met a loada women who wore the niqaab.. from what mt mrs told me, the women in Jamaat who wore the Niqaab, most of whom were middle aged were pleased to see my mrs wear it..

the idea of being forced to wear the niqaab and burka goes back to the government campaign for waging wore on afghanistan. its definatly had an effect on a lot of people..

although it'd be foolish to say theren't cases of some being forced, but it definatly aint the majority..

think about it for one second.. we don't have the taliban police patrolling the streets in the UK.. the women who wear niqaab in the UK if were forced to wear would take it off when not with their husbands..

it aint the case,..

MuslimBro — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 13:35

[quote][b]Morocco moves to drop headscarf[/b]

Morocco is making major changes to religious education, in particular regarding whether young girls should wear headscarves.

A picture of a mother and her daughter wearing headscarves is being removed from the latest editions of a text book.

A verse from the Koran that says girls should don veils has already been taken out of the books.

Other Arab countries have made similar changes, worrying that the veil could be used as a symbol of extremism.

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5413808.stm[/url][/quote]

yashmaki — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 14:49

Assalamu Alaikum Saima,

How can you judge a section of society as "rude" simply because they cover their faces, without bringing direct harm to others or impinging their human rights?

You haven't even met me or all these thousands of niqabi wearing sisters in the uk, yet you judge me and them as "rude".

I think you're just intimidated by the niqab because you already expressed your fear of it. So as a way of justifying your fear or dislike of the niqab you simply say we're rude ppl.

Kindly tell me how i'm rude, and just how you have the right to judge my manners when you've not even met me?

On a different note today on the news, a muslim "sun" (aka trash news) journalist went "undercover" posing as a niqabi woman at leeds airport just to see if she could breech security, and guess what she did!

This comes as no surprise to me what a waste of time i've breeched security at a scottish airport, and i'm serious. The sun wasted it's time on a dead beat story all they had to do was contact me for this lame story. What's the moral of this story if you wear a niqab you can breech security so ban the niqab? Let's join the niqabi attack crew :roll:

You don't have to wear a niqab to breech security or even be muslim as many journalists have shown in the aftermath of 9/11, what a waste of ink.

TEX — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 15:07

[quote="yashmaki"]

You don't have to wear a niqab to breech security or even be muslim as many journalists have shown in the aftermath of 9/11, what a waste of ink.[/quote]

it is very hard 4 u 2 get caught if u where a niqab

4 all of u guys that are making a song and dance about what straw sed i have a question 4 u:

If it was part of sum1's religion to walk round stark naked, and it was a MAJOR part of thier religion, would u get angry at sum1 who sed they shud put clothes on?

no fricken way, u wud be agreeing with them, the double standereds are disgusting,

IMO if all u guys were not muslims u wud be agreeing wid straw

yashmaki — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 15:12

tex ur point is irrelevant. im harming no one whts your problem with me? i dnt tell u how to dress so kindly don't dictate how i shud either.

walking naked= public idecency even by the laws of the west, so yeah i'm against it before i was practising and after, your point is pointless u just want a sensational debate nothing else become a sun reporter waste ur time with them

also its not muslims making a song and dance about this, mr straw made the issue. it was non issue two wks ago until he publically voiced his views. he has a right to his views everyone does, but he couldn't have been ignorant of the hawks (media) watching his every move. We didn't need to know his views he chose to let the world know. why? why now? why when muslims are being attacked everywhere in the press, surely it would have been wiser to voice the views after the calm rather than during the storm. he's an intelligent man, and he's an mp and we all know they cant be trusted just seeing them debate like yobs in parliament says it all.

it was coz of his calculated timely comments that niqabi women were subsequently demonised in the weekend papers and news, and it's still running in the news today.

How many years have women been wearing the niqab in the UK, why make it an issue today you explain that to me please. Niqabi women have lived without harming anyone else in this country for decades only today is it such a huge concern.Coz mr straw wants to see my facial expressions when i speak? What about my right under the laws of this land to cover my face if i choose? The day it's banned i'll accept the law and abide by it by moving out. But till then i'll keep wearing it and if ppl are scared too bad. I'm afraid of large groups of drunken yobs, sum ppl are scared of goths and punk rockers so what what ya gona do ban everything you fear? Face your fear deal with it.

TEX — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 15:15

how is it pointless

any idea how liberating it feels to walk round naked?

guys i really reccomend u try it... all of u

in the West a women walking down the street in a tiny bikini top that bearly covers her nipple and a g-string is NOT against the law.

if i wanna walk round in a g-string, i still would NOT be harming anyone, but u guys would bash me for it

yashmaki — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 15:35

the old woman next door non muslim would bash you for it too and i'd join her. i don't want innocent kids seeing you in a g string, this is a residential area we don't need that here. There's a time and place for everything. On a beach u could do that, so go ahead, but i doubt it in this area the local cops would put u in the lock up for sure and i'd commend them. And the local heavies muslims and non muslims (i.econcerned young fathers, brothers etc) would do you some serious damage too. that's no a threat that's the reality, maybe you should put it to the test? Print the report in the world news or something?

TEX — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 15:57

[quote="Noor...*"][b][color=indigo]TEX shut up. Your making me sick.[/color][/b][/quote]

how am i?

i sed nowt wrong

i will be doing no harm if i just wore a g-string- and i can garantee u i wont be attacked by non-muslims

so whats ur bloody problem?

Straw did nowt wrong

Anywayz my lil sis is scared of the Niqab, it gives her nightmares...

zara — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 17:27

[quote="MuslimBro"][quote][b]Morocco moves to drop headscarf[/b]

Morocco is making major changes to religious education, in particular regarding whether young girls should wear headscarves.

A picture of a mother and her daughter wearing headscarves is being removed from the latest editions of a text book.

A verse from the Koran that says girls should don veils has already been taken out of the books.

Other Arab countries have made similar changes, worrying that the veil could be used as a symbol of extremism.

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5413808.stm[/url][/quote][/quote]

isn't morocco a muslim country?

Seraphim — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 18:20

[quote="TEX"][quote="Noor...*"][b][color=indigo]TEX shut up. Your making me sick.[/color][/b][/quote]

how am i?

i sed nowt wrong

i will be doing no harm if i just wore a g-string- and i can garantee u i wont be attacked by non-muslims

so whats ur bloody problem?

Straw did nowt wrong

Anywayz my lil sis is scared of the Niqab, it gives her nightmares...[/quote]

Judda i guarantee if you walk down any street naked or in a thong people will run from miles to beat your-ever-loving-roody-poo candyass!
We'll see how liberated you feel then when someone smacks the taste outta you're mouth. Walking naked is indecent exposure, i know you like it in the BigBoysPen but there are better ways to get in there than showing off you're shrudel.
People dont wanna be seeing that when they walk down the street, whats the matter with you?

MrStraw is an a$$ for telling people what not to wear... not only on religious grounds but the implications it has to start defining what you can and can not wear bcoz then you're taking away peoples liberties and thats generally how everything goes in the pooper.

peacegirl — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 21:34

[quote="yashmaki"]Assalamu Alaikum Saima,

How can you judge a section of society as "rude" simply because they cover their faces, without bringing direct harm to others or impinging their human rights?

You haven't even met me or all these thousands of niqabi wearing sisters in the uk, yet you judge me and them as "rude".

I think you're just intimidated by the niqab because you already expressed your fear of it. So as a way of justifying your fear or dislike of the niqab you simply say we're rude ppl.

Kindly tell me how i'm rude, and just how you have the right to judge my manners when you've not even met me?

On a different note today on the news, a muslim "sun" (aka trash news) journalist went "undercover" posing as a niqabi woman at leeds airport just to see if she could breech security, and guess what she did!

This comes as no surprise to me what a waste of time i've breeched security at a scottish airport, and i'm serious. The sun wasted it's time on a dead beat story all they had to do was contact me for this lame story. What's the moral of this story if you wear a niqab you can breech security so ban the niqab? Let's join the niqabi attack crew :roll:

You don't have to wear a niqab to breech security or even be muslim as many journalists have shown in the aftermath of 9/11, what a waste of ink.[/quote]

[b]WALAIKUM ASLAM YASHMAKI!

I'm not saying the person behind the niqaab is rude!!!!! the action of covering your face is rude!!! if a non muslim was talking to me with his/her face hidden behind say a scarf..........that is totally rude!!! not the person.!! i'm sure you are a nice person and totally down to earth. don't be offended. Let me say this nice and clearly!!! I AM NOT AGAINST THE NIQAAB.....but..........IN THE UK....IT'S A BIG NO NO!! BUT I'M ALL FOR IT IN DUBAI!! AND SAUDI!!! but covering the rest of your body and your head is enough..coz that way you are following your religion. but at least you can be identified! :? [/b]

You — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 21:51

I can understand if peoiple dont wanna wear it, or do.

But why is there such resentment about others choosing to wear it? Where is their freedom of choice?

Gotta say Saw 'The Sun' at work today. It was very big on this issue. Front cover, main articles, opinion pieces.

Their view: It is a security risk, and Muslims are trying to taunt the peaceful native British population with the niqab.

Thing about civil liberties is most are small things. If you start taking them away one by one, a single one will have no major impact, til you have nothing left.

peacegirl — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 21:56

[quote="zara"]i dont understand why your against wearing it in the UK.[/quote]

:roll: tut huh!!!!! look around, read the papers!!!!! the hatered it is all causing. NOW look at the islamic countries..........yep it is the norm to wear the niqaab. no hatered. no second glances.

zara — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 21:59

Sihks/jews (don't know which one it is) wear the little hat thing on their heads in the UK, no hatred. They wear it in India, no hatred. same with nuns.

peacegirl — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 22:01

[quote="zara"]Sihks/jews (don't know which one it is) wear the little hat thing on their heads in the UK, no hatred. They wear it in India, no hatred. same with nuns.[/quote]

yep!!!!!!!!!!! but they are not covering their face!!!!!! their is nothing wrong with covering your body!!!! or head!

and i will be against the non muslim when they try to ban us from covering our heads!!

TEX — Mon, 9 Oct 2006 - 22:15

[quote="Seraphim"]
Judda [/quote]

please call me TEX

[quote]i guarantee if you walk down any street naked or in a thong people will run from miles to beat your-ever-loving-roody-poo candyass![/quote]

the last 5 words need to be cencored

anyway frightning everyone away is a good thing 😂

[quote]We'll see how liberated you feel then when someone smacks the taste outta you're mouth. [/quote]

why wud any1 do that?

[quote]
People dont wanna be seeing that when they walk down the street, whats the matter with you?[/quote]

lol YOUR the one wid the problem

and i is not gonna tell dem to look at ma butt, they can look at ma face instead

You — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 05:56

[quote="saima786"][quote="zara"]Sihks/jews (don't know which one it is) wear the little hat thing on their heads in the UK, no hatred. They wear it in India, no hatred. same with nuns.[/quote]

yep!!!!!!!!!!! but they are not covering their face!!!!!! their is nothing wrong with covering your body!!!! or head!

and i will be against the non muslim when they try to ban us from covering our heads!![/quote]

So you think people shouldn't have the right to wear more clothing thatn you would like them to?

That is what it all boils down to.

Some people buckle, others do not. It is all about principle.

peacegirl — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 08:16

admin admin admin!!!! I'm not saying people do not have the right to wear more clothing than they want.........I think people should cover up and dress in a modest way. but like I have said before..........covering the face in UK is giving OUR islam a bad name! If you guys want the non muslim to like the niqaab...............work together and spread the good word of our religion first. Even if that mean uncovering your face. do you blame them at this moment in time for disliking our dress??? the 'jew and sikh with the hat thingies' isn't the religion that did 9/11 or even the london bombing. our job is to spread the good word of our religion. to talk to the non muslim and show them what we are about......... that is what i do. wherever I go. Be it on the train.........or standing in the que. even if i have just met them, i make conversation just so i can let em see a bit of my beutiful religion. they may not convert....but i'll have em thinking! Its a shame many don't do this. but have pleanty of time to debate debate debate.........and wish for their own way. get out there......and prove that our niqaab is all good!

Exquisite — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 09:31

[color=magenta]i cnt believe if there is even an argument over this issue, yes there are dissagreement on whether the niqaab is fard or not but it still doesnt jack straw to come out with a statement like that, he is a high profile politician it is expected that his comments would be proper analysed so he should of clearly stated his opinion, i may not wear niqab but it doesnt give any1 the right to tell me that i cant wear it sometime in the future, somebody gave some sort of comparison to a blind person saying they cant see peoples facial expression and they are able to communicate with people perfectly fine [/color]

TEX — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 11:55

[quote="Exquisite"][color=magenta]but it still doesnt jack straw to come out with a statement like that, he is a high profile politician it is expected that his comments would be proper analysed so he should of clearly stated his opinion, [/color][/quote]

he did analyse it

he said NOTHING wrong

Exquisite — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 13:11

[color=magenta]im not talking abt him im on abt the media and public its only natural for us to analyse HIS comments[/color]

[quote]he said NOTHING wrong[/quote]

[color=MAGENTA]according to YOU[/color]

Mez — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 - 13:46

I agree with Yash girls and women have been wearing the niqab for quite a while now and if there were any issues with it should have said something then but why now?
I think Mr Straw said it caus he wanted some attention, so he said whathe said to get the media attention back on him after about the recent stories about Tny Blair stepping down and Gorden Brown!!!

I just think Mr Starw is a attention seeker! and most of all is an a***!!!!