Quote:

Muslim women in the UK who wear full veils make "better, positive relations" between communities "more difficult", Commons leader Jack Straw has said.

thats stupid. how does it make it more difficult???

[color=magenta]thats just being silly, my mother wears a niqab n she functions well in the community, like if shes in a shop n its non-muslims serving her they are perfectly ok with the niqab, maybe jack straw shud tke a note, this country allows us to express freedom of religion n if part of a religion is to wear the niqab then so be it, accept it, people who see niqab as a barrier should just ask sisters wearing a niqab why they wear n talk to them n theyll find that they are just like every1 else[/color]

all none-muslims i know call the niqab 'creepy'

i cant understand y

[color=magenta]well most i knw dont find it creepy, they see it as part of our religion and although it may not be part of their norm they accept the fact that it is part of ours[/color]

my teachers want it banned too

and every non-muslim i have talked to

we had a class discussion about this

i know about 30 ppl that sed they wanted it banned

how many ppl do u know that think its `ok`

[color=magenta]a good 50 n i could name all of them n i knw all of them personally n yes they are non-muslims[/color]

I am absolutely sick to death of non-muslims having a go at Islam. They make no attempt whatsoever to even try to understand, before spreading so much hate. Today there has been so much in the news regarding Islam, and of course all negative. It makes me so angry. It just seems to get worse and worse as every day goes by.

Salam

I am with Straw on this one.

He is only trying to help.

And so what if he is a not a muslim.

He has made some very valid points.

Omrow

[color=indigo]We should be able to wear what we like, when we like. I dont see why the way we dress affects others. Ther our clothes and on our bodies, not thers.

Has this straw guy ever actually spoken to a niqaabi?[/color]

[color=violet][/color]
I'm sorry but i do agree with jack straw. it is rather difficult to hold a face-to-face conversation with some1 when you can not see their face! All I can say is if you wanna wear the veil, then do it in a muslim country!

I'm so proud to be a muslim, but we live in UK.......... and wearing the veil is just going a bit far. Wear a headscarf.

i disagree with Jack straw,..

how is it difficult to have a face to face conversation with someone wearing a veil.

what a loada bull. i think its disgusting that in an age where communication takes place through all sorts of medium which does not involve look at peoples faces that some fools have to resort to removing ones liberties.

and the argument of if u dont like it here go somewhere else.. is plain fascist talk. I mean just because someones Muslim does not make them less British than someone who is non muslim. Its about time people started getting that through their thick heads.

salaam

i think Jack straw is talking absolute rubbish and his comments have sparked a debate which can have dangerous consequences.

Who the hell is Jack Straw to tell Muslim women how to dress?

Is he also going to lecture nuns, sikhs, hindus, budhists, rastafarians, hippies, punks etc.... how to dress, how to look normal, how to integrate etc....

Muslims are an easy target nowadays i'm afraid....
I dont believe Niqab is fardh but women who choose to wear it, can definitely wear it. They follow their Lord and aim to please none but their Lord- and dodnt and wont give a flying monkey what Jack Straw has to say!

Straw said:
Wearing the full veil was bound to make better, positive relations between the two communities more difficult...

wearing a veil makes you different and yes you do stand out, but so do women who wear mini skirts, big cleavages, body piercing, rastfarians, afro-carribean women with their cultural dress, men who dress as women and vice versa .....AND ANYONE AND EVERYONE EXCEPT MUSLIMS.....

this is not playing the victim... this is now a harsh reality.

Muslims need to speak up against these attacks on our faith, identity and beliefs.

wasalaam

I was going to make the point Khan made. Not being able to see someone's face when talking to someone is hardly a problem when talking over the phone. Maybe Jack Straw should stop using the phone and stop sending emails and letters.

He is just trying to make a political point. Trying placate people who are afraid of "Islamification" of Britain - Zionists and ignorant Joes.

Would Straw ask a woman who came into his surgery with a mini-skirt on to wear a longer skirt before he spoke to her? No he wouldn't.

As the sister from MPAC said on Newsnight last night, if Straw wants to defend the rights of Muslim women and "liberate" them he should get his Muslim cronies in Blackburn to let women into mosques and mosque committees. But he won't do that cos he'll have no-one to go around defrauding people of their postal votes for him.

Why this was top of the bill on Newsnight last night I don't know. People not being able to see the face of someone they're talking to! Shock horror! What has the world come to? Don't worry Newsnight's on the case.

So long as the straw man keeps his “lose the veil” comments as a request - rather that a demand - then it’s not really a big deal.

Men of straw have the right to be scared of the garment and women have the right to refuse his request.

Another fuss over nothing.

A lot of my communication involves facial expression. A lot of the misunderstanding we have on this forum would be avoided that way - I could see at a glance if someone is being hostile or thoughtful. A woman in a veil doesn't get that luxury and loses trust. You would get it if, say, Jewish men all wore balaclavas.

"The Great 100" wrote:

You would get it if, say, Jewish men all wore balaclavas.

I'm not sure if that's meant to be ironic or not.

Anyway I'm quite shocked that he has turned this into a public issue.

What possible point is there in him revealing what he does in meetings with his constituents. It is clearly a ploy to get himself attention. The fact that he felt it necessary to bring this out I find more insulting than that he feels intimidated by the niqab.

On another note imagine if a male MP said that he felt uncompfortable talking to female constituents who wore short skirts and asked them to dress more modestly. He'd be called a chauvinist pig.

I agree with sister saima and brother omrow on this one.

In a non-muslim country its not nice :? , besides the niqab in the west attracts MORE attention, wheares the men in muslim countries are `conditioned` to beleive that they cannot control themselves, and showing a bit of ankle is dangerous, so women wearing a niqab there is a MUST, a headscarf simply will NOT do IMO.

If i saw a woman in a Niqab driving too fast or stealing something from a shop how will i recognise her?

Cop: What did she look like?

Junaid: erm...

Cop: Was she black, white or brown?

Junaid: erm...

Cop: How old did she look?

Junaid: erm...

Cop: Do you have the [i]faintist[/i] idea of what she looked like?

Junaid: She wore a niqab

Cop: What coulour?

Junaid: Black

Cop: Great! we have thousand of women that could be suspects

Junaid: ok :?

Cop: In fact, you keep telling me she as a women, how do you know she was a woman, what if its a man?

Junaid: erm...

---

You get the gist...

"Mr Admin" wrote:

[b]We[/b] do not mind if women wear next to nothing,

Im sorry but who's `we`?

"Admin" wrote:

Quote:

[size=18]Straw 'opposes all Muslim veils'[/size]

Cabinet Minister Jack Straw has said he would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils at all.

The Commons leader said he did not want to be "prescriptive" but he believed that covering people's faces could make community relations more difficult.

Mr Straw has said he asks Muslim women at his Blackburn constituency surgeries if they would mind removing veils.

Some Muslim women called his remarks insulting, but other Muslims said they understood his concerns.

Mr Straw has dismissed suggestions that his remarks are designed to raise his profile ahead of Labour's deputy leadership election.

He has yet to confirm whether he will join the race to succeed John Prescott but is widely expected to do so.

[b]Meeting strangers[/b]

Mr Straw is Labour MP for Blackburn, where about 30% of residents are Muslim.

He sparked controversy when he told his local paper he asked female constituents visiting his surgery if they would uncover their faces.

He said he made sure he had a female colleague in the room when asking someone to show their mouth and nose - and his constituents had so far always agreed to do so.

Asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme if he would rather the veils be discarded completely, Mr Straw replied: "Yes. It needs to be made clear I am not talking about being prescriptive but with all the caveats, yes, I would rather."

Mr Straw explained the impact he thought veils could have in a society where watching facial expressions was important for contact between different people.

"Communities are bound together partly by informal chance relations between strangers - people being able to acknowledge each other in the street or being able pass the time of day," he said.

"That's made more difficult if people are wearing a veil. That's just a fact of life.

"I understand the concerns but I hope, however, there can be a mature debate about this.

"I come to this out of a profound commitment to equal rights for Muslim communities and an equal concern about adverse development about parallel communities."

[b]'Separateness' fears[/b]

Mr Straw stressed it was a choice for women and he was making a request and not a demand.

"What I've been struck by when I've been talking to some of the ladies concerned is that they had not, I think, been fully aware of the potential in terms of community relations," he said.

"I mean, they'd thought of it just as a statement for themselves, in some cases they regard themselves as very religious - and I respect that - but as I say, I just wanted to put this issue on the table."

He said he was worried the "implications of separateness" and the development of "parallel communities".

Tony Blair's official spokesman said the prime minister "believes that it is right that people should be able to have a discussion and express their personal views on issues such as this".

The spokesman said Mr Straw's comments were not government policy and he refused to reveal Mr Blair's views on the issue.

[b]'Dangerous doctrine'[/b]

Mr Straw's comments have provoked a mixed response from Muslim groups.

The Islamic Human Rights Commission called Mr Straw's views "astonishing" and accused him of discrimination.

The Protect-Hijab organisation said the "appalling" comments showed "a deep lack of understanding".

But Dr Daud Abdullah, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said he could understand Mr Straw's discomfort adding that women could choose to remove the veil.

Labour's Baroness Uddin said debate was needed but perhaps not in the way Mr Straw had framed it.

She was worried he had talked about veils being a statement of separation - that acknowledged the government's failure to ensure Muslim women were "part and parcel" of British society, she argued.

Conservative policy director Oliver Letwin said it would be "dangerous doctrine" to tell people how to dress.

And Liberal Democrat president Simon Hughes: "The experience of visiting their MP is difficult enough for many people without having to consider a dress code."

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5411954.stm]BBC News[/url]

I find many views on here hypocritical. We do not mind if women wear next to nothing, but if they wear more than what soime of us see as the absolute minimum, it's too much.

and I expect the Muslim voters of Blackburn to vote him in next time aswell, maybe beating up those who oppose him?

i was gonna post that :evil:

Why doesn’t Mr Straw ask prostitutes to “rethink” what they are wearing (or not in some cases). Society could quite easily say that if some people were not so under-dressed then the levels of rape would not be so high. Such an impact that would make on the “community” Mr Straw.

"Mr Admin" wrote:

We do not mind if women wear next to nothing,

I'm sorry, but I do.

I cannot stand anyone who shows more than 60% of her flesh.

At that point I need to sit down.

"Omrow" wrote:

"Mr Admin" wrote:

We do not mind if women wear next to nothing,

I'm sorry, but I do.

I cannot stand anyone who shows more than 60% of her flesh.

At that point I need to sit down.

to me it depends which 60% is showing.a bit of legs and arms are alright, but sometimes their tops are too low or skirts are too up.

sorry all you short and long sighted people can you please remove your specks so we can truly talk "face-to-face"

So Mr Straw never speaks to any1 over the net, phone, emails....

:roll:

whats 'teh'?

"Admin" wrote:

"TEX" wrote:

"Mr Admin" wrote:

[b]We[/b] do not mind if women wear next to nothing,

Im sorry but who's `we`?

'We' as in british society as a whole.

Or just me.

yes just u
too many people have Omrows attitude to this