Muslim anger grows at Pope speech

Sajid Iqbal —

[b]Muslim anger grows at Pope speech [/b]

A statement from the Vatican has failed to quell criticism of Pope Benedict XVI from Muslim leaders, after he made a speech about the concept of holy war.

Speaking in Germany, the Pope quoted a 14th Century Christian emperor who said Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.

read in full here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5347876.stm

pls share your views

Forum

salaf — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 - 01:09

No it's just that she's still being presented by the media as a scholar (whether they specify islamic or not they're still wrong) and I'll take any opportunity presented to debunk this.

I'm still trying to work out what the point of the Pope's speech was though. Faith and reason should run together. Okay fine but what do you do with that?

Where does he see Catholics acting against reason that he feels obligated to say this?

Dave — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 - 12:41

Just like if you look at that one particular quotation without reading the entire speech you miss the point of the speech, if you look at that one particularly speech without reading the previous speeches in the series you miss the point of the whole trip.

He was addressing the place of religion in Western Society, why we are afraid of it in the public sector and why ultra-secularism is not a solution to the mistakes we made in an age of faith without any reason.

His [url=http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0915/p01s01-woeu.html]audience[/url] received the message quite well.

salaf — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 - 13:13

[quote="Odysseus"]
He was addressing the place of religion in Western Society, why we are afraid of it in the public sector and why ultra-secularism is not a solution to the mistakes we made in an age of faith without any reason.
[/quote]

But some would say that many of the positions he holds on social issues go against reason.

Plus isn't this all 200 years too late.

latifah — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 - 17:42

[b]Pope says he was misunderstood.[/b]

Pope Benedict XVI has told pilgrims at the Vatican that his remarks on Islam which angered Muslims around the world had been "misunderstood".

He expressed his "deep respect" for Islam during his weekly audience.

"I included a quotation on the relationship between the religion and violence. This quotation unfortunately was misunderstood. In no way did I wish to make my own the words of some medieval emperor," he told thousands of faithful.

"I wish to explain that not religion and violence, but that religion and reason, go together. I hope that my profound respect for world religions and for Muslims who worship the one God and which help to promote peace, liberties, justice and moral values for the benefit of all humanity is clear.

"I trust that after the initial reaction, my words at the university of Regensburg can constitute an impulse and encouragement toward positive, even self-critical dialogue both among religions and between modern reason and Christian faith," he added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5362788.stm

TEX — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 - 19:08

to me those ppl that make a song and dance about these situations are nothing but hypocrites

they have abandoned the Quran and have not emulated muhammads sunnah- yet they have the nerve to go crazy over stuff like this! its insane! :roll:

they may rever/idolise muhummad, yet they have took no notice of his messege, i am shocked by the yanabi.com team giving him a god-like status :shock:

i is not surprised when allah sed in the Quran dat most ppl is gonna be in hell.

Dave — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 - 23:50

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]the pope said that muslims are violent, evil ppl

and the muslims go and shoot a nun

:roll:[/quote]

lol I like how they called him ignorant and violent then promptly went out and torched a Greek Orthodox Church.

Ohh the irony.

Dave — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 - 23:58

[quote]But some would say that many of the positions he holds on social issues go against reason.[/quote]

That has absolutely no bearing on the intention of his speech.

[quote="salaf"]Plus isn't this all 200 years too late.[/quote]

Nor does this.

I'm not terribly certain what it is Muslims want from this guy. He was speaking to Christians about an issue facing Christians in the secular west, was misquoted and apologized and explained himself to the peripheral world.

salaf — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 - 00:38

[quote="Odysseus"] But some would say that many of the positions he holds on social issues go against reason.
That has absolutely no bearing on the intention of his speech.[/quote]

I didn't say it did. My point was I don't understand what material issues he's trying to address. Unless his speech was supposed to be purely rhetorical.

[quote]Nor does this. I'm not terribly certain what it is Muslims want from this guy.[/quote]

How about nothing?

stmark — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 - 22:51

[quote="Guest"]Yeah that really helps things :roll:

well done Admin :roll: :roll: :roll:[/quote]He apologized for offending muslims but a lot of leaders want him to retract his speech. Chances are that if he did take it back it would only be to calm muslims so they will quit burning churches in some islamic countries and I don't think it would be because he is sorry. Why can muslims offend us but they get mad when we offend them? It's not like he was trying to offend you and I know muslims don't try to offend us but people get offended, that's life.

stmark — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 - 23:04

[quote="Odysseus"]Guys,

The Pope was in the Hitler Youth, is there anything more that needs to be said?

07.htm]riots[/url] .[/quote]You would have been too if you lived back then. It was required, His family was very anti hitler and he got out as soon as he could. That should not be held against him but I think it will be.

stmark — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 - 23:20

[quote="Omrow"]Salam

Pope's lecture was on the importance of reason and
the incompatibility of religion with violence.

He claimed that religion and violence dont go together.

Currently, the "Christian" George Bush is illegally invading
muslim nations, while the "muslim" bin Laden is terrorising the west.

To me both are evil.

To the Pope, only one is evil.

That shows his love for "reasoning".

Omrow

p.s. Also, the Pope totally forgot the Crusades led by
his predecessors. How convenient. [url=http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0915/dailyUpdate.html]csm[/url][/quote]I think he bwas condemning the association of religion with violence no matter which country or where it comes from.

stmark — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 - 23:40

[quote="salaf"]Irshad Manji has [url=http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/news/cbsnews-2006-09-18.html]stepped in[/url] revealing to everyone that the Pope's speech was actually about interfaith dialogue. Everyone else (including the church) had described it as being about faith and reason. Apparently she knows better.

What makes this really odd is that he has publically stated that he doesn't believe interfaith dialogue is possible with religions other than Judaism.[/quote]It was leading up to an invitation. The speech was about faith and reason but it was also an invitation.

Dave — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 - 01:16

[quote="stmark"][quote="Odysseus"]Guys,

The Pope was in the Hitler Youth, is there anything more that needs to be said?

07.htm]riots[/url] .[/quote]You would have been too if you lived back then. It was required, His family was very anti hitler and he got out as soon as he could. That should not be held against him but I think it will be.[/quote]

That was overboard and I was out of line. I'm a new Catholic, reverence for the Holy Father does not come easily, I am learning though. My apologies, glad to see you are back it's been quite a while.

stmark — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 - 03:25

[quote="Odysseus"][quote="stmark"][quote="Odysseus"]Guys,

The Pope was in the Hitler Youth, is there anything more that needs to be said?

07.htm]riots[/url] .[/quote]You would have been too if you lived back then. It was required, His family was very anti hitler and he got out as soon as he could. That should not be held against him but I think it will be.[/quote]

That was overboard and I was out of line. I'm a new Catholic, reverence for the Holy Father does not come easily, I am learning though. My apologies, glad to see you are back it's been quite a while.[/quote]Thank you my computer was old and wouldn't work so this is a new one. I'm not even catholic I just liked his speech.

Dave — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 - 04:01

Once I actually read the speech and not the sound bytes I have to agree, it was very good and very appropriate given the climate.

Dawud — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 - 10:41

[quote="Odysseus"] I'm a new Catholic, reverence for the Holy Father does not come easily, [b]I am learning though[/b].[/quote]

😂

Dave — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 - 12:37

[quote="Dawud"][quote="Odysseus"] I'm a new Catholic, reverence for the Holy Father does not come easily, [b]I am learning though[/b].[/quote]

:lol:[/quote]

Hey I never said I knew everything!

...I just implied it 😃

You — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 - 18:50

[quote="Omrow"]The Pope Must Die.

Anyone seen that movie?

A lot of muslims seems to be renting it out.

I wonder why.[/quote]

you're a clown Omrow.

Have you seen Stephen King's 'it'?

stmark — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 - 19:45

[quote="Omrow"]The Pope Must Die.

Anyone seen that movie?

A lot of muslims seems to be renting it out.

I wonder why.[/quote]There have been death threats but I don't think anybody has made a movie.

Dawud — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 - 09:31

It was made in 1991 I think. Checked it out on imdb and it seems pretty funny, plus it stars Robbie Coltrane. (Guy from cracker)

Nice quote:

[quote][b]The Pope[/b]: [as Carmelengo is lowering the triple crown onto his head] You don't understand! You've got the wrong man!
[b]Carmelengo[/b]: That's what they all say.[/quote] 😂

stmark — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 - 20:48

[quote="Admin"]I doubt much more will happen. It's a mountain out of a molehill.

However I must say the media in the UK are lapping up on this. It is still the main headline here in the news. In a country where there has been a clooective 'Meh' at the whole issue.

Mind boggling.[/quote]Some clerics in pakistan called for his removal.
Benedict "should be removed from his position immediately for encouraging war and fanning hostility between various faiths" and "making insulting remarks" against Islam, said a joint statement issued by the clerics and scholars at the end of their one-day convention.

The "pope, and all infidels, should know that no Muslim, under any circumstances, can tolerate an insult to the Prophet (Muhammad). ... If the West does not change its stance regarding Islam, it will face severe consequences," it said.

The meeting was organized by the radical Islamic group Jamaat al-Dawat, which runs schools, colleges and medical clinics. In April, Washington put the group on a list of terrorist organizations for its alleged links with militants fighting in the Indian part of Kashmir.

The meeting came after the pope said Sunday he was "deeply sorry" about the reactions to his remarks and that they did not reflect his own opinions.

He said Wednesday that he has "deep respect" for Islam, but he did not offer an apology that was demanded by some Muslim leaders offended by his remarks in Germany last week.

The pope acknowledged that his remarks were open to misinterpretation, but insisted he had not intended to endorse a negative view of Islam.

In Germany, Benedict cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad as "evil and inhuman," particularly "his command to spread by the sword the faith."

"This quote unfortunately lent itself to be misunderstood," the pontiff said Wednesday. "In no way did I wish to make my own the words of the medieval emperor. I wished to explain that not religion and violence, but religion and reason go together."

The clerics and religious scholars said they did not regard Benedict's latest comments as an apology.

"The pope has neither accepted his mistake, nor apologized for his words," it said.

The statement also said jihad was not terrorism and that "Islam was not propagated with the sword, but it became popular and was accepted by the oppressed peoples of the world because of its universal values and teachings."

"Jihad is waged to rid an area, state, or the world of oppression, violence, cruelty, and terrorism, and bring peace and relief to the people. History is full of incidents where Muslims waged jihad to provide relief to people of many faiths, especially Jews and Christians," it said.

Pakistan is the world's second most populous Muslim country, and its people have held small, peaceful rallies since the publication of pope's remarks about Islam.

I never would have known about the speech if muslims hadn't made such a big deal about it.Probably a lot of people wouldn't have known about it, muslims just call attention to themselves when they riot and people are tired of them griping about every thing.

You — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 - 22:34

I aint in Pakistan.

And as I said previously, there Friday is almost synonymous as a day of protest. they just need a topic. any topic. The clerics will whip up sentiment at the friday prayers, and after that there will be protest.

If you are lucky, something will be lit on fire. And on sapecial occasions effigies will be burnt.

stmark — Wed, 27 Sep 2006 - 06:13

[quote="Beast"]He didn't challenge the quote though.

It was part of his argument.[/quote] he didn't confirm it either It was a good speecch and if the muslims focused on that quote that's their problem. He probably wasn't trying to call mohammed evil he just quoted somebody that did. Why would he call mohammed evil when that wassn't what the speech was about? So he said that guy called mohemmed evil and he didn't refute it,. So muslims think he was saying he was evil. I think you're jumping to conclusions and muslims have no right to be upset but it's not hard to upset someone who is looking for a reason to be upset.