Do you have faith in the Police?

[quote="Muslim Bro"][quote="(*_Shazan"]So Muslim Bro, would you go undercover for example in an operation involving Masjid espionage?

Check what the Quran say's on spying on fellow Muslims before you attempt to answer my question[/quote]
Well, before any police officer goes undercover, they are asked by their senior officer if they want to....and obviously I'll say no.

Anyways, I want to be a senior police officer, so it's not likely that I'll be going undercover. And even if I'm asked to, the answer will be....erm....no![/quote]

Joining the police force is wrong, which is expressly forbidden in Hadith, which says:

"if you have an unjust ruler do not join the police" (paraphrasing, and yes the Prophet said POLICE i.e. shurta)

what is the exact hadith. Please do not paraphrase into a quote...

Just to point out another flaw in the anti polkice argument:

It's either MI5 (which is the military) or CID (for which you have to volunteer) which will do spying.

However if you are just a Muslim brother who happens upon information which will prevent acts of murder, I say whole heatedly it is our islamic duty to inform the cops and stop the murder.

[quote="(*_Shazan"]Lol, have you been watching to much bill? You will be asked to compromise your faith[/quote]
Actually I've stopped watching the bill ages ago. As admin has said it's either the MI5 or CID who will be doing the spying (I think the anti-terrorist branch, also known as S013 and special branch have taken over from the CID.)

[quote="(*_Shazan"]Become an engineer like me and earn 14.63 per hour :wink:[/quote]
Yeah being an engineer will make my parents proud and you earn good money but I don't think I'll enjoy doing the job.

Shazan bro, can you please quote the exact hadith where it says joining the police force is wrong?

Scholars such as Shaykh Faraz Rabbani & Shaykh Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari, both agree that it is permissible to be a police officer in the west. They even go to say that it would be rewarding if one has the intention to spread law and order. The only reason when it wouldn't be permissible would be when you have to do something which goes against the shariah, and I think that is where the unjust rulers come in. If you are a police officer working for a unjust ruler, you will be told to go against the shariah. So if one was to join the police force, they have to be very careful and follow the shariah.

My brother wanted to be a police constable, he passed all the training but a couple of months into it he changed his mind. I think my dad had a lot to do with this, as he was very against the idea right from the beginning and did everything to discourage him. My dad was extremely worried about the institutional racism associated with the police and also he worried about the communities attitude towards my brother. He believed it would be impossible for my bro to work locally, as surely this would involve snitching on your own. My bro said the police was nothing like he expected it to be (he wasnt naive going into this profession, he knew it wasnt all car chases and catching robbers). He said the police were far too restricted in what they could do, and there was far too much emphasis on figures, be it statistics or meeting targets.

The job of the police is extremely difficult, and I think its made worse when far too often the're let down by their own system. In society the police have no authority or presence about them. A couple of days ago my local paper reported how the police had succesfully closed down a couple of crack houses and caught 6 crack and heroin dealers. The operation had lasted many months, involved a lot of time, energy, and resources. So what was the sentenceing. Well 2 got rehab, constructive yes, but what does 'rehab' really mean: back out on the streets with 6 months free supply of methodone? 2 got 18 months and 2 got 21 months. The whole thing is such a farce. Im sure the police feel let down by this too, they'll be out after the same people in a few months. Their efforts are made a mockery of.

As for the police only being allowed to stop/search/question X number of a particular group on one particular day for fear of being prejudiced, is stupid. That isnt providing security. [i]But something is needed,[/i] as the police are far too ready to label a particular group and turn them into a national stereotype. This stereotype spreads everywhere, and worst of all, it sticks for years and years.

[quote="(*_Shazan"]

Astonishing comment , were does it in the Quran it mentions; Man will deliver Justice but not Shariah.[/quote]

Allah (swt) delivers Justice, not man, however Allah (swt) works through the wasil of people.

It is not Allah (swt) way to strike offenders with bolts of lightening from above…..so when criminals, oppressors, wrongdoers etc are justly punished via systems….. than that is in actual fact the Justice of Allah (swt) being carried out.

My dad also doesn't want me to join the police force but it is upto me what job I do as long as I don't go against the shariah (and earn good money ofcourse). I think especially asian parents have a list of jobs that they want their children to do, such as being a doctor, engineer, solicitor, barrister, ect. It's our lives and yeah parents can have a say but they can't control our lives and say you HAVE to be a doctor.

[quote="Imaani"]He believed it would be impossible for my bro to work locally, as surely this would involve snitching on your own.[/quote]
Your bro could have transferred to a different police station, someone I know works as a police officer miles away from his local area.
If someone committed a crime, why would it be wrong if they arrested someone they knew, or even someone who was a muslim? There are police officers in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia for example where most of the population are muslim and they are doing their job and what's being muslim got to do with it?

Yeah I agree with you that the job of the police has become very difficult. The problem isn't the police force, it's the government. The government comes up with stupid laws. Say for example a person committed murder, they will get 18 years before being released on license. If the person pleads guilty in court, their sentence will get slashed by one-third, so they will serve only 12 years in prison. The police can't do anything about it. Our criminal justice system isn't detering criminals, as it's so leniant. That's why I'm for the death penalty for people who commit serious crimes such as murder. The new anti-terror laws which discriminates against muslims, who brought in these laws....the government.

SO13 is the armed branch is it not?

[quote="Muslim Bro"]
Your bro could have transferred to a different police station, someone I know works as a police officer miles away from his local area.
If someone committed a crime, why would it be wrong if they arrested someone they knew, or even someone who was a muslim? There are police officers in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia for example where most of the population are muslim and they are doing their job and what's being muslim got to do with it?

[/quote]

I totally agree with you bro. That was just my fathers take on things. My brother didnt have an issue with that either.

I agree if more Muslims joined the police force, and represented us, I'm sure things would be better. But that is easy for me to say, I dont want to join! But good on you bro. You do what you want to do, as long as you're happy it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks. You can never please other people.

And yeah the problem is a lot bigger than just the police force.

[quote="Admin"]SO13 is the armed branch is it not?[/quote]
You have mixed them up. S013 is the anti-terrorist branch and SO19 is the armed branch.

Check this out for more info: [url]http://www.met.police.uk/so/index.htm[/url]

thanks

when i was about 7 our flat was burgled-everything was turned upside down

we called the police-they took finger prints etc and caught the robbers

the police have always been nice to us

other than that we've never had to call the police-twice we've been mugged

once mums hnadbag was grabbed and another time my aunties gold neklace and each time dad legged it after the mugger and caught him 8)

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]once mums hnadbag was grabbed and another time my aunties gold neklace and each time dad legged it after the mugger and caught him 8)[/quote]
You can't finish there....did your dad smack him silly?

Or did he let the mugger go?

Or did you call the police?

My mum once got her phone stolen from her handbag by these pickpocketers in stratford, argos to be exact. It has happened to alot of people, now you'll see signs saying 'pickpockets operate in this area' or some similar sign.

The last time the police came to our house was because my 19 year old sister dialled 999.

[quote="*_Noor_*"]The last time the police came to our house was because my 19 year old sister dialled 999.[/quote]
because....

Cant remmber, i think she did it by accident..

but thats the the first time..

[quote="Muslim Bro"][quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]once mums hnadbag was grabbed and another time my aunties gold neklace and each time dad legged it after the mugger and caught him 8)[/quote]
You can't finish there....did your dad smack him silly?

Or did he let the mugger go?

Or did you call the police?

My mum once got her phone stolen from her handbag by these pickpocketers in stratford, argos to be exact. It has happened to alot of people, now you'll see signs saying 'pickpockets operate in this area' or some similar sign.[/quote]

About five years ago we were all walking as a family to some shop...dad was ahead and we were all behind him.

A black guy came and snatched mums purse...my younger sister screamed, oblivious mum didnt know what was going on, I was holding onto my baby sister and my brother ran ahead and told dad what just happened.

Dad legged it after the black guy and chased him all down the high street...we just stood there waiting for him to come back.

He came back 10min later panting, holding mums purse and started to yell at mum.

Apparently mums purse only contained an apple and a nappy...and he was peed off that his chase was over nothing valuable.

Dad had chased and caught the guy into a house ...so he noted the address and told the police where the guy lived, they later arrested him.

[quote="*_Noor_*"]Cant remmber, i think she did it by accident..[/quote]
I also remember calling the police once when I was at my uncles house.

Basically I called the police and told them that there was a burglar in my house (quietly, to add to the effect) and put the phone down. About 5/10 mins later there was a group of police officers outside the house.

They police were well peed off and my bro got the blame as I was pretending it had nothing to do with me hehehe

MS. Your dad must have been quite fit, my dad would have told me to chase the guy lol

[quote="Muslim Bro"]
I also remember calling the police once when I was at my uncles house.

Basically I called the police and told them that there was a burglar in my house (quietly, to add to the effect) and put the phone down. About 5/10 mins later there was a group of police officers outside the house.

[/quote]

You idiot! Why did you do that for?

I bet it was like last year...

[quote="Imaani"]I bet it was like last year...[/quote]
Nope....about 6 years ago.

Sheffields getting quite bad, we've had like 3/4 stabbings, burglrys, fights the lot. Its crime percentge has gone waay up since last year.
My family has been in involved wid da police alot, well not too much but a few times but mostly good.

[quote="Muslim Bro"]
MS. Your dad must have been quite fit, [/quote]

dad was in his mid forties then-had an unhealthy diet and smoked about 20 a day

but he's also short tempered

i think thats what gave him stamina

do you have faith in the police?

nope.. they are human after all and can make mistakes.

[quote="khan"]do you have faith in the police?

nope.. they are human after all and can make mistakes.[/quote]

Most pragmatic dude!

I like your style.