Salam alaykum
I want to talk about this topic because there are many muslims i know who slander and spread hate against the Chechen fighters and people because of this one event. Most of these people talk rubbish since they have no idea what actually happened and are only repeating the kafir media propaganda.
Firstly why did it happen.
The answer to this can be seen in the first war . During the first war Chechen commander Shamil Basayev led a hostage-taking of a hospital in the town of Buddenyvosk. From this hostage-taking , the Mujahideen were able to secure a small ceasefire which was they used to regroup and - led again by Shamil Basayev - attacked and recaptured their main cities thereby forcing the russians out and ending the war and the genocide of their people.
In the Buddenyvosk operation the Mujahideen did not kill the hostages. This was also the intention of Beslan. They did not go their to kill children but to get a ceasefire , stop the genocide of their people and liberate them.
Another interesting point the western media fail to mention is that a few months before Beslan , Shamil Basayev (who was behind Beslan) offered to obey international law IF the russians did the same and stop the slaughter of Chechen civilians:
Quote:
[b]If president of Russia Putin makes an official statement that he
pledges to strictly comply with the international law in the solution
of the Russian-Chechen armed conflict, we will stop all subversive
activities and acts of sabotage against unarmed civilians on the
territory of Russia (there are no peaceful civilians in Russia),
except for special military operations against the military and
secret services in the places where they are deployed. We can even
give that up as well.
[/b]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/35479
The russians could have avoided Beslan by obeying their own laws but instead they ignored the offer and continued with their genocide.
In his interview after Beslan , Shamil Basayev offered to go on trial for Beslan even though the deaths of the children came about from the russians attacking the building. Here are a couple of survivors from Beslan :
Quote:
"I saw myself, as a woman fell down, after this on a window-sill there was the mountain of corpses, continues the woman. -The terrorists
didn't shoot at us at all - I even thought that when they finish them
off, they (servicemen .) will come and and will finish off all of
us".
Quote:
Another victim (Zinaida Varziyeva) described how his son perished and
of what nature of wounds he had. As it proved to be, he got a bullet
wound not in his back, but at his side - "on that side our servicemen
stood, they were shooting at the school".
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/44874
This shows who was firing on the children.
To all the people who claim Shamil Basayev is a "terrorist" : What kind of terrorist expresses regret at what happened , offers to go on trial and has many times offered to observe international law?? He must be the worst "terrorist" around.
Also talking of children and terrorists , it is the russian terrorists who have wiped out 40,000 muslim children and still counting.
It is the russians who are carrying out the genocide of a nation , it is the russians who have wiped out a quarter of the population of Chechnya.
I have not justified the deaths of the people in Beslan - there isnt a justification which is also why Shamil Basayev has offered to go on trial- but explained what happened and why.
Shamil Basayevs own words show the hypocrisy of the world :
[b]
"The Russians have been holding the entire Chechen people hostage for
five years and nothing happened. We held 1,000 people hostage only
for three days to stop the genocide of the Chechen people, and the
whole world is shocked. What is this if not hypocrisy? . .[/b]
Propaganda. The terrorists didn't pack a children's school full of explosives for "international peace," they were using the threat of killing children to pressure the Russian government.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0b/Beslan_School_Terror_-_ter...
Making them just as depraved and disgusting. Basayev and his "Mujahideen" can burn in hell.
Not international peace but local peace.
Since Russia refused to stop the murder of Chechen children by obeying Basayevs "civilised offer" - that of both sides observing international law - Basayev tried a more more brutal method to stop the genocide- hostage-taking. A method that had worked before.
Carry on raving and ranting , makes you sound real bright. :roll:
:roll:
Offering to not blow up school children if Russia leaves Chechnya isn't a civilized offer, thats terrorism. I'm sorry you can't see the difference, the international community certainly did.
Your pathetic defense of child murderers falls flat on its face in light of [url=http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/childrenbeslan/synopsis.html]the children's own words[/url]. Maybe if Basayev's terrorists had been a little more succesful you wouldn't have to deal with the inconvenience of the children's words.
Something to think about.
Why dont you try reading , before posting.It might help.
The "civilised" offer was when Basayev offered to observe international law if Russia did the same.
If Russia had agreed , there would have been no need for Beslan as the genocide of the nation would have been stopped.
Russias policy of kidnap, murder and rape was the reason for Beslan.
At least Basayev accepts responsibility for his role and has offered to go on trial when the war is over.
What kind of terrorist goes on trial for his actions?
He didnt expect their would be a bloodbath. He was expecting the same result as the hostaeg-taking in the first war where he managed to stop the genocide of his people.
Its a shame Putin doesnt make the same offer for his role in the death of the 40,000 Chechen children and go on trial.
This is called an "ad hom" attack. It's part of something called a "logical fallacy," basically you are not addressing any arguments you are simply trying to discredit me, hoping that will suffice for not having prepared any response. I will take the liberty of simply writing "ad hom" every time you do this from now on.
Again, holding children hostage using bombs and guns to effect a political change in Russia (no matter how justified the legal change may be) is terrorism of such a depraved level it shocked the world. Rigging children with explosives is generally considered "uncivilized." Or perhaps you didn't learn that lesson from the Russians.
Basayevs careful planning along with a 25-35 accomplices was the reason for Beslan.
Has he gone on trial yet?
He hearded children into a room filled with explosives and placed armed guards at the doors, threatened (and followed through) to kill a certain number of them within a given amount of time if the Russians didn't do what he told them to and he didn't expect a bloodbath? Do you have any documentation that Basayev ever said "I never expected a bloodbath" because I find it hard to believe a seasoned terrorist could be this naive about calculated murder.
Yes it is "a shame" that Putin will never stand trial for Chechnya. What does that have to do with Beslan?
Who said it was civilised? I understand what drove him to do it though maybe it wasnt the best thing to do.
As for what the world thinks , who cares. When 40,000 Chechen children died , i didnt here much condemnation.
But after Beslan , all the hypocrites came out of the woodwork saying "children are precious" blah blah blah. Where were these fools before? Where are they now?
Russia learnt a lesson in Beslan, If you go to commit genocide expect some blowback.
If Basayev was so committed to make Beslan happen , why did he offer to observe international law several months BEFORE Beslan?
The trial will take pace after the war as was confirmed by Aslan Maskhadov and this is still the case with the new president , Abdul-Khalim Sadullayev.
Again your talking out of ignorance. The deadline had long gone and still the Chechens didnt carry out the threat.
One woman hostage spoke to the leader who said he didnt want to cause a bloodbath but the Russians were refusing to negotiate.
When the deadline past , they didnt blow the place up - in fact , they did nothing. They just stayed there hoping that some Russian official would come to his senses and talk to them.
He said it in the interview he gave right after Beslan . He also said he was shocked at the final outcome.
He expected something more along the lines of what happened in the first war in Buddenyvosk , where Russians negotiated a ceasefire - that was the whole aim behind Beslan but it didnt go to plan and some children died.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Well two "wrongs" did make a right in the first war - so they tried it again.
islamically: two wrongs don't make a right. and what happened at beslan was wrong so there's no need for your quotation marks.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
The qutotation marks were for the hostage-taking in the first war - which wasnt wrong in my opinion.
I said I would make a post here, and I will. Now.
The thing that reeks about this whole thing is that there is noone that did right.
The russians and the chechens both were in the wrong.
The rebels had choices. So did the Russians.
Apparently The chechens were originally aiming to commandeer a government building, but were infiltrated by a spy (or spies) and were found out. The rebels found out after starting the operation, after they had infiltrated the region, and were hung to dry.
Now they had a choice. They could try to turn back, but their plans would be known. Tey could go forward, but that would be a trap. Third option was to change their plan. They chose this.
They'd decided to commandeer a school. They knew what they were doing. They knew what lives they were risking.
I am also pretty certain they did not expect to leave alive. Now they made it more about show. They knew what had happened at the theatre seige in Moscow. They deliberately took children hostage. Nothing can ever justify this.
Now the Russians decided not to play. They could have probably offered some small escape to them. Allow them to return home. But that would just defer the day of judgement. They decided to play hardball, and finish it here.
Due to the decisions of both sides, many people died. Neither side was blameless.
And end does not justify the means. If it worked once, it does not mean it was right then, much less does it justify doing it again.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Aslan Maskhadov (May Allah grant him highest of abode in Jannah) made no excuse for the tragic events in Beslan, but wanted the show the entire worlds media the plight of the Chechens, only when one meets an Chechen then you’ll understand, they are fighting for survival.
Chechen dirty war Documentary
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9099034601896343271&q=Chechen+di...\
If terrorism can be defined as violence against civilians in the name of politico-military goals, then much of what the Russian Military has perpetrated in Chechnya should be added to this sinister list
According to various reliable estimates, more then 100,000 Chechens have been killed is the last decade, and several hundred thousand others have at some point lost their homes or been forced to flee: that from a population of one million. Grozny, once a city of about 450,000 and one of the Soviet Unions major oil refining centres, is a gruesome ruin. Oil spills, radiation, landmines, unexploded ordnance and destroyed forest scar the poison Chechnya’s landscape.
I agree desperate situations calls for desperate actions
Islam is the Key to paradise but without practice it won't open the gates.
What more worrying that I find, is that the Beslan issue has been debated to death and viewpoints become polarized- and Muslim are left ignorant of this issue, while the daily massacres of Chechens still continue.
Thats what the west are good at point all the finger on the muslims so people forget the real issues and what is really going on.
As you say to this day they are still suffering but what does most of the world see them as, yes you've guessed must i say that damn word again.
Islam is the Key to paradise but without practice it won't open the gates.
ok, it's time to throw this topic wide open once again:
While this does NOT clear the hostage takers, it does add more questions.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.