One of the nicest responses I've heard to this question is from a Christian:

"Fate is what will happen, due to free will."

"Dawud" wrote:

One of the nicest responses I've heard to this question is from a Christian:

"Fate is what will happen, due to free will."

theres no clarity in the statement it doesnt answer the question just confuses it.

basically he is saying our destiny will be shaped by our free will, which is exactly what im questioning, [b]if our destiny is pre-determined how do we possibly have free will[/b]

typical of a christian to respond like that , just like the bible which is contradictive and ambigous.

can someone please quote hadiths and quran, it will be a great help

"nAS786" wrote:

[b]if our destiny is pre-determined how do we possibly have free will[/b]

ur looking at it from the wrong angle - they go hand in hand, as opposed to cancelling eachother out.
do not expect to understand every single thing about Allah's Creation - there's only so much the human intellect can grasp, Allah (s.w.t) is All-Knowing.

i understand were your coming from dust, but there should be a answer, there isnt anything islam cant answer , i guess its my job to search for such answers maybe then i can increase my faith in islam, maybe someone can quote hadiths or quranic quotes, this subject and question must have been widely debated in islam, its called free will vs determinism in psychology, maybe someone can state good sources , e.g. web sites, im determined to find the answer and will look for an answer

"nAS786" wrote:

i understand were your coming from dust, but there should be a answer, there isnt anything islam cant answer , i guess its my job to search for such answers maybe then i can increase my faith in islam, maybe someone can quote hadiths or quranic quotes, this subject and question must have been widely debated in islam, its called free will vs determinism in psychology, maybe someone can state good sources , e.g. web sites, im determined to find the answer and will look for an answer

inshaAllah i will look into it further and quote some quranic ayaat/ahadith when i am more awake...
but dont you think if there was a definitive answer Umar (r.a) would have given it to the man who asked him?

anyhow, good luck with your search,

wassalaam.

I have not researched it as much as i wanted to and probably wont have the time to , due to the amount of assignments and courseworks i have to complete :x

anyway i am more then content that humans have free will

philosophers and theologians say that if one believes in God / gods / luck or any other supernatural power which has sole authority and perfect knowledge in the universe, then nothing happens against the will of that power and so the actions and behavior of man are not his responsibility at all - he was pre destined to do whatever he does.

psychologists argued that man is totally free, and that Allah's knowledge of our deeds comes after the fact, i.e. we alone determine what we want to do, then once it is done, Allah knows. Some go even further than this and deny the existence of a Supreme Being, considering such an idea unnecessary when man has sole control over his own life (atheism).

they are both wrong

The foreknowledge of God is an acknowledged fact, but it should not be interpreted in the sense of predestination, does not imply that human beings have been completely deprived of the freedom of action

The companions of the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, asked him why, if their final destinations (hell vs. heavan) were written, should they bother doing good deeds? Why not just rely on what was written in their destiny? The Prophet's response was, "Act, for everyone is facilitated what he intends to do." This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Jabir b. Abdullah with the same wording (and includes these words): "Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Every doer of deed is facilitated in his action." (Sahih Muslim, Kitab-ul-Qadr)

We do have a will of our own, and Allah refers to it many, many times in the Qur'an.

...So he who wills may take to his Lord a way of return by obeying his commandments. Quran: 78:39

So fear Allaah as much as you are able and listen and obey... Quran: 64:16

Allaah does not charge a soul except with that within its capacity. It will have the consequence of what good it has gained, and it will bear the consequence of what evil it has earned... Quran: 2:286 -IslamWeb

There's a difference between your will and God's. You're only judged on what you do, not what happens to you.

Belief in Al-Qadr ...does not provide an excuse for mankind to sin or abandon what they are obligated to do.It is wrong to say that anything in this universe happens against the will of Allah, the omnipotence of Allah would be negated if things happened in the universe against His will. On the other hand, it is equally incorrect to say that any evil deed that we ourselves do can be blamed on Allah, saying 'it's His will'. The confusion can be cleared by making a distinction between those areas of our life where we do have freewill and those areas where we do not have any control at all.

(It was reported that a man who was caught stealing was brought to 'Umar bin Al-Khattaab, may Allaah be pleased with him, who ordered that this mans hand be cut off. The man said: "Wait, O leader of the believers! I only stole because this was in the Qadr of Allaah." 'Umar, may Allaah be pleased with him, replied "And we are amputating your hand because it is in the Qadr of Allaah." Ha ha.)

the answers to the question

"[b]The future certainly pre-exists in the organic whole of God's creative life, but it pre-exists as an open possibility, not as a fixed order of events with definite outlines." [/b]

[b]A Muslim should not be over-concerned about what will happen in the future because he knows that the existence of Qadr does not mean that there is no choice. In fact there are a range of destinies to choose from The Muslim should seek to choose the best, and avoid the evil - then in confidence and full faith leave the actual working out to Allah.[/b]

i was writing this i pressed submit and it came off and told me to log on again :x :x
I determined may have been th will of allah that i rewrite it maybe so i may remember it better.
However this had happened before and i had the freewill to copy and save it before i pressed submit

Also today i stayed up for cricket and read namaz, but usaully i dont read fajar namaz, is it gods will i only read namaz when cricket is on then so its not my fault, no i have the free will to say i will wake up everyday to read fajar because i love allah.

in another incident....ok this can go on forever , hopefully you get the message

"nAS786" wrote:

i was writing this i pressed submit and it came off and told me to log on again :x :x

This has got nothing to do with this topic but admin can that be resolved? When that happens on another forum it's enough to press back and your post appears whilst if u try it here it just shows up as a blank page? (it gets anoying typin posts again esp. if they are long, i have experienced it :x :evil: )

so are some people destined to go to hell/heaven, it still confuses me???

"*DUST*" wrote:

"nAS786" wrote:

ok heres another question

[b]IF ALLAH(swt) KNOWS WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE GOING TO HEAVEN AND HELL AND ALLAH (swt) KNOWS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE, WHAT IS THE POINT OF LIFE?[b]

I mean if we are destined for hell why live life , why dont Allah (swt) put us straight to hell

discuss :!:

[/b]

oh dear, the ol' Qadr vs. Free Will question... :?
basically, the way i see it is this: yes, Allah knows very well the path we are going to take, but we do not know it... say Allah has destined £300 for you at the end of the week - u can either steal it, or earn it in a halaal manner. so there are two paths to your destiny and this is where Free Will comes in, the path u choose is what you will be judged upon.
also, we can only take such questions so far. a man asked Khalifah Umar ibn Al-Khattab a similar question and he said 'go and look in the well'. the man came back and said he did not find anything in the well. Umar (r.a) told him again, 'go and look in the well'. after the third time, the man got the message - there are some things we will never know the answer to and should not delve in unnecessarily.

so can i use the example of how we are destined to marry someone, but we have to decide on which path to take before we get there, like love marriage, arranged marriage, dating etc

is that right? is that an example of fate nad free will...

sort of

"Seraphim" wrote:

sort of

arn't you supposed to be at work or something!! :?

"Mez" wrote:

"Seraphim" wrote:

sort of

arn't you supposed to be at work or something!! :?

arent you supposed to be at school... with your little friends... and your stickers, gummie bears and jelly beans. :roll:

"Seraphim" wrote:

"Mez" wrote:

"Seraphim" wrote:

sort of

arn't you supposed to be at work or something!! :?

arent you supposed to be at school... with your little friends... and your stickers, gummie bears and jelly beans. :roll:

now look who's being side tracked :?:

"Mez" wrote:

Yeah Mez... looks whose side tracking now... innit!!

You tell her Madiha... silly girls too hyped on gummie bears. :roll:

lol! this aint side tracked... this is the 'Put your thinking Caps on' and ask unexplainable questions... which Mez did... look above for details ^^...

nAS786 hope this helps you frere:

The choices you made in the past, were they any less freely chosen than any you may yet make.

I would say that, the cchoices I made in the past were made by the gift of free will. Despite this, they are now unchangeable. One who knows the past of my life perfectly from beginning to end, knows all the choices I 'made'.

Okay so there you go.

But to carry on a little:

Time is another dimension, to man. However, one we can only travel forward (or backwards as it may be, depending on your common origin, but as Muslims I think we can say forwards ) in it. One movement.

In the 'x' plane we can move forward or backward, same in the 'y' and 'z' plane.

I think a good analogy, is if you were walking down the beach in one direction then you would hypothetically leave and immutable set of footprints.

Whereas if you double back on yourself so that after trambling all over your prints, your footprints would have little concept of being any record for you journey.

Well if you can only move forward in the time plane, and you can only look at your feet, or over your shoulder, it does mean One, All Seeing can't see what's infront of you or behind you.

And if all you are in this movement is a slide maker and slide viewer, then surely Allah SWT can view all your slides and all those you can't make too.

Anyway, I hope we all have good hearts, because thats what matters.

Shaykh Hisham Kabbani said so.

[

Quote:

quote="madiha"]so are some people destined to go to hell/heaven, it still confuses me???

[/quote]

It is extremely hard to explain and requires reading and research to fully understand it but to answer your question [b]people are not destined to go heaven or hell. We have the freedom of choice and freewill to commit sin or good deeds and therefore we choose if we are going heaven or hell.[/b]

Quote:

so can i use the example of how we are destined to marry someone, but we have to decide on which path to take before we get there, like love marriage, arranged marriage, dating etc

is that right? is that an example of fate nad free will

[b]yes that is a good example , exactly we are destined to marry someone but it depends on the choices we make that determines who we marry[/b]

Dawud bro im sure you are making some good points but that doesnt make any sense to me , ill read it when im more awake it may make better sense to me then , hopefully :?