1971 Pakistani Massacre Of Bengalis

Like I said the issue is very complex. There is no right ot wrong answer. If any1 wants they can start a separate thread because this issue can drag on for years, its already been 50+ and the issue is still a "hot topic"

Dust has asked me to reply to your post fully, since sister Dust asked me nicely I will do as she say’s but not as she wishes.

[color=green][b]Salam Alikum how are you Yasmaki? Afner bala ni?[/b][/color]

[quote="yashmaki"]i'm bengali so by default i'm supposed to hate the entire Pakistani race that's the attitude i'm getting from you brother. Yes we should be concerned about Pakistans refusal to admit the genocide.
[/quote]

[u][b]Concerned[/b] [/u]is an understatement! You’re just a concerned Muslim and I’m some kind of fanatical? I have to repeat my words again, firstly I’m not advocating you hate anyone, let me reiterate my position:

If I appeared to be attacking anyone here for being Muslim with Pakistani blood ties, [b]Wallahi[/b] that wasn’t my intentions and forgive me,

And

[b]“A Muslim is the brother of another Muslim, He does not oppress him nor abandon him” [Imam Ahmad has reported this in his Musand (68/2)[/b]

For the genocidal murderous crooks of this world:

Theres a term in the Qu’ran for these people who commit grotesque act’s of violence against Muslim... Belhuum Adaal.. lowest of the low ...lower than animals

[quote="yashmaki"]Yes we should demand that they admit they carried it out. But no we shouldn;t sit in a forum ranting and raving appearing obssessed about nationality and nothing else.[/quote]

Is that supposed to be an offence? My family have campaigned for a decade now for justice, I do much more besides sit behind a computer screen and appear in your eye’s [b]“ranting and raving appearing obsessed”[/b] I’m not a ethnocentrism!

Maybe the truth hurts some people, then let them learn to live with that, I support the oppress not the oppressors

[quote="yashmaki"]This disease of nationality and culture created the genocide and the disease is still amongst us all. Specially amongst Bengalis, Pakistanis and Arabs. Religion comes first everything else is second to that. [/quote]

I already mention this in a pervious post (Dont get me started on Nationalism) - you should really learn to read and understand. Talking about 1971 doesn’t amount to nationalism- how you’ve concluded this (put 2+2 and equals 3) I don’t know? :roll:

[quote="yashmaki"]How do you know my thghts, how do you know my intentions about anything the fact is you don't.
[/quote]

Ok :? , a little emotional aren’t you dear sister? I’m not playing holier then thou, please stop rambling nonsense. I never said Shazan is a mind reader. 🙂

[quote="yashmaki"]Yet you sit there accusing me, as if you are better than me coz u have this burning hatred. Behaving like i should give you total allegiance just coz ur bengali and im bengali, brother take your obssession somewhere else. [/quote]

What exactly have I accused you off? I’m always ready to accepted my wrongs. My obsession is Islam, what is yours?

[quote="yashmaki"]By the way i may be ignorant but at least i admit my faults. We can't all be as intelligent as you[/quote]

Agree with you. We all have different levels of intelligence but only wisdom comes from Allah swt. I never claimed to more intelligent then you, please abstain from putting words in my mouth.

[quote="*DUST*"]actually she raised some good points and ur lack of response suggests u know she is right OR u cant come up with anything to counter what she said, coz her reply was based solely on Islamic values... :P[/quote]

I have replied to Yashmaki post fully I’m still waiting to see this Islamic value, which is hidden in her post 😛 , maybe I need a new pair of glasses. :?

[quote="(*_Shazan"]
[color=green][b] Afner bala ni?[/b][/color]
[/quote]

What language is that? 😃

[quote="Beast"][quote="(*_Shazan"]
[color=green][b] Afner bala ni?[/b][/color]
[/quote]

What language is that? :D[/quote]

It’s Bengali, mean's Are you ok/How are you? And we don’t reply with "1st class" 😉

*bump*

Right... forgot about this thread.

Thanks MS

[quote="Augustus"]Right... forgot about this thread.

Thanks MS[/quote]

I guess I’ve been given the platform to post again 🙁

[quote="(*_Shazan"][quote="Augustus"]Right... forgot about this thread.

Thanks MS[/quote]

I guess I’ve been given the platform to post again :([/quote]

Well it does seem rather unavoidable.

This is the proper place for the discussion, though I must admit it seems Yuit and you are at a bit of a standstill over the whole affair.

Educate us.

[quote="Augustus"]

Well it does seem rather unavoidable.

This is the proper place for the discussion, though I must admit it seems Yuit and you are at a bit of a standstill over the whole affair.

Educate us.[/quote]

I believe Yuit want to brush this dark episode under the carpet, if we stop talking about then maybe it never happened a mentality shared by majority of Pakistan- current day military leaders.

Unless, I’m wrong.

I’ll wait for Yuit to post, but if I’m personally offended then……………

Wow... i'm surprised this isn't more well known.

The genocide was called operation searchlight, in under nine months 3 million people were killed...

They planned for several months, deporting foreign press and sending in sweep squads after the killings to do further damage.

Apparently the names, ranks and even companies of the top [url=http://www.muktadhara.net/page36.html]200 war criminals have been recorded[/url]

But nothing is being done about it, this is quite an oversight by SEATO and the UN

[quote="(*_Shazan"][quote="Augustus"]

Well it does seem rather unavoidable.

This is the proper place for the discussion, though I must admit it seems Yuit and you are at a bit of a standstill over the whole affair.

Educate us.[/quote]

I believe Yuit want to brush this dark episode under the carpet, if we stop talking about then maybe it never happened a mentality shared by majority of Pakistan- current day military leaders.

Unless, I’m wrong.
[/quote]

You right, u are wrong, find where i said i wanted everything brush under the carpet. If there been injustice, bring on justice. My comment on this discussion have not been on the incident as i know nothing of it. What I have commented on is making this is issue between present day pakistani and bengali and the fact i don't like your way of discussing, it very child like IMO. Just look at this thread and the other one and see the manner you speak to people who disagree with u.

[quote="Augustus"]Wow... i'm surprised this isn't more well known.

The genocide was called operation searchlight, in under nine months 3 million people were killed...

They planned for several months, deporting foreign press and sending in sweep squads after the killings to do further damage.
[/quote]

Horrific isn’t it? Imagine the anguish felt when Bengalis turn on their TV and watch a Pakistani military parade. :evil:

[quote="yuit"]

[b]If there been injustice, bring on justice.[/b] My comment on this discussion have not been on the incident as i know nothing of it. What I have commented on is making this is issue between present day pakistani and bengali and the fact i don't like your way of discussing, it very child like IMO. Just look at this thread and the other one and see the manner you speak to people who disagree with u.[/quote]

First correction: what planet has you being hiding in? There has been a huge injustice delivered to the Bengali’s- no question about it

Funny you seem the only one on this forum who feels this is a personal vendetta against British born Pakistani, maybe if more of them stop waving their flag on Eid and bring Jinnah politics into the Masjid maybe South Asian wont be so backwards.

I’ll endeavor to speak with improved manners and in a tone, which pleases your conscience

I wont say Pakistan war criminals I’ll replace that with fairies

Who has taken any personal offence to my comments, speak up now?

P.S what does IMO stand for?

[quote="(*_Shazan"][quote="Augustus"]Wow... i'm surprised this isn't more well known.

The genocide was called operation searchlight, in under nine months 3 million people were killed...

They planned for several months, deporting foreign press and sending in sweep squads after the killings to do further damage.
[/quote]

Horrific isn’t it? Imagine the anguish felt when Bengalis turn on their TV and watch a Pakistani military parade. :evil:[/quote]

...that's salt on a wound. I understand your anger, certainly can't rate you for it, if I were in your position I don't have any idea what i'd do.

I just can't believe 3 million people died in nine months, somewhere between 200 and 500 thousand women were raped, it's all well documented and very readily available for me to google.

And nothing as happened...

I can't even find an article about Operation Searchlight on human rights watch website.

I can wrap my mind around international organizations missing tragedies like the zapatistas but 3 million people evaporating in nine months... nothing?

Is there a more impartial source for info?

I would like to know more, but that site has a very 'passionate' author. (he wrote 'worse than the holocaust')

And as mentioned Bhutto was later tred and killed by a later General Zia. Anyone know of the reasons given for this?

And I wanna know the ethnicities of the players aswell. See which ones are in Pakistan, and which are in bangladesh.

[quote="Admin"]Is there a more impartial source for info?

I would like to know more, but that site has a very 'passionate' author. (he wrote 'worse than the holocaust')

And as mentioned Bhutto was later tred and killed by a later General Zia. Anyone know of the reasons given for this?

And I wanna know the ethnicities of the players aswell. See which ones are in Pakistan, and which are in bangladesh.[/quote]

The wikipedia article and their respective sources all say the same thing... the reason I chose to post that website is because it showed 200 of the top war criminals who there has been nothing done about.

Niazi died in 2004 peacefully at home.

Nobody raped his family.

[quote="Admin"]Is there a more impartial source for info?

[/quote]
Others

The Baltimore Sun (5/14/71) : 0.5 million

The Momento, Caracas (6/13/71) : 0.5 - 1.0

Washington Daily News (6/30/71) : 0.2

World Bank Report (June, 71) : 0.2 (upto June 11, 1971)

Die Zeit, Bonn (7/9/71) : 0.5

New York Times (7/14/71) : 0.20 - 0.25

Wall Street Journal (7/23/71) : 0.2 - 1.0

The Christian Sci. Mon. (7/31/71): 0.25 - 1.00

Newsweek (8/2/71) : 0.25

Time (9/2/71) : 0.2 - 1.0

Newsweek (3/27/72) : 1.5

National Geographic (Sept. 1972) : 3.0

WHPSI: 307,013 deaths by pol.viol. in Pakistan, 1971.
D.Smith says 500,000

S&S: 500,000 (Civil War, Mar.-Dec. 1971)

1984 World Almanac: up to 1,000,000 civilians were killed.

Hartman: 1,000,000 Bengalis

B&J: 1,000,000 Bengalis

Kuper cites a study by Chaudhuri which counted 1,247,000 dead, and mentions the possibility that it may be as many as 3,000,000.

MEDIAN: 1,000,000-1,250,000

Porter: 1M-2M

Rummel: 1,500,000.

Eckhardt: 1,000,000 civ. + 500,000 mil. = 1,500,000 (Bangladesh)

Harff & Gurr: 1,250,000 to 3,000,000

The official estimate in Bangladesh is 3 million dead. [AP 30 Dec. 2000;

Agence France Presse 3 Oct. 2000;
Rounaq Johan: 3,000,000 (in Century of Genocide: Eyewitness Accounts and Critical Views, Samuel Totten, ed., (1997))
Compton's Encyclopedia, "Genocide": 3,000,000

Encyclopedia Americana (2003), "Bangladesh": 3,000,000

Here are some acceptable sources Admin:

http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~faisal/Genocide.html
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html (Shazan provided this earlier)
http://www.preventgenocide.org/bd/edu/biblio/

*I see Shazan has already taken care of this.

Shazan, I was not arguing figures.

I was asking for a more 'acceptable' source which Augustus has provided. (I clicked on one so far... seems well written, but spells out the three million figure was a hoax... so it does throw into doubt the earlier linked article...)

Still, 11,000 a day?!?!?!?!?!?

[EDIT]

Oops. That is what would have needed to be done to get to the 3 million figure...

[quote="Admin"]
And as mentioned Bhutto was later tred and killed by a later General Zia. Anyone know of the reasons given for this?

And I wanna know the ethnicities of the players aswell. See which ones are in Pakistan, and which are in bangladesh.[/quote]

General Zia said that the government of the deposed prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto had destabilised Pakistan.

Bhutto was hanged in 1979.

Ethnicities of the players ???

[quote="(*_Shazan"][quote="yuit"]

[b]If there been injustice, bring on justice.[/b] My comment on this discussion have not been on the incident as i know nothing of it. What I have commented on is making this is issue between present day pakistani and bengali and the fact i don't like your way of discussing, it very child like IMO. Just look at this thread and the other one and see the manner you speak to people who disagree with u.[/quote]

First correction: what planet has you being hiding in? There has been a huge injustice delivered to the Bengali’s- no question about it

Funny you seem the only one on this forum who feels this is a personal vendetta against British born Pakistani, maybe if more of them stop waving their flag on Eid and bring Jinnah politics into the Masjid maybe South Asian wont be so backwards.

I’ll endeavor to speak with improved manners and in a tone, which pleases your conscience

I wont say Pakistan war criminals I’ll replace that with fairies

Who has taken any personal offence to my comments, speak up now?

P.S what does IMO stand for?[/quote]

First thing, who said there a personal vendetta against British pakistani, u the one who keep bringing it into the discussion and expressing your hate for all thing pakistani. Second i said i know nothing on the incident as most bengali and pakistani on the street don't. Third you just been looking for someone to express your anger at as you feel powerless and that cool, but it helping no one. Looking at the stats it say it all, maybe you should let them speak for themselves.

[quote="Admin"]Shazan, I was not arguing figures.

I was asking for a more 'acceptable' source which Augustus has provided. (I clicked on one so far... seems well written, but spells out the three million figure was a hoax... so it does throw into doubt the earlier linked article...)

Still, 11,000 a day?!?!?!?!?!?[/quote]

Well that's just the opinion of that one source - as Shazan said the official number is 3 million.

There are lots of problems in calculating these kinds of death tolls - something you quickly learn when you take a look at HRW or Amnesty reports.

Yahya, bhutto Niazi were from west pakistan...

what about the other ringleaders?

[quote="(*_Shazan"]P.S what does IMO stand for?[/quote]
'in my opinion'

[quote="(*_Shazan"]

General Zia said that the government of the deposed prime minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto had destabilised Pakistan.

Bhutto was hanged in 1979.[/quote]

Would that be talking about his role in the divide?

If so, atleast one person was punished...

[quote="Admin"]Yahya, bhutto Niazi were from west pakistan...

what about the other ringleaders?[/quote]

Mr. Tajuddin Ahmed (Then PM of Bangladesh)?

I dont understand your question......

Many Biharis had joined in with the Pak army during the 71 war and pre-71 they commanded the top jobs and positions in East Pak due to their knowledge of Urdu )

If the Bihari's are now bangladeshi's, the responsibility of bringing them to justice is with Bangladesh... as they are not from the curent pakistan...

and why are you bitter at them being left in limbo by the current Pakistan by not taking them into west pakistan?

[quote="Admin"]

If so, atleast one person was punished...[/quote]

But let’s not make harebrained declarations, he was killed because
faced charges of murdering a PPP politicians and like I said destabilising Pakistan not Bangladesh!

his death means nothing, while the other 200 war criminals are breathing.

[quote="(*_Shazan"]his death means nothing, while the other 200 war criminals are breathing.[/quote]

Actually those were just the top 200... the website didn't go so far as to name others, I suspect partly because there's never been a formal inquiry or trial on the matter.