"naj" wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

So his reply is they are prohibited. Not kufr or shirk.

He said anything linked to kufr and shirk in not allowed, and nike is (according to him) associated with kufr and shirk, thus making them not allowed.

Not that I agree though.

I disagree with the bit where he assumes Nike is associated with kufr or shirk. It is a name. chosen for its powerful sound and philosophy. not as a deity.

And once aagin I would avoid nike.

fair enough admin...but i hold alot of respect for mufti ebrahim desai (damat barakatuhum) but i agree with him that it is associated with kufr and shirk i believe such learnt mufti alhamdulillah knows what hes talking about.

Since yu agree with him, then you must know how its comes under the category of 'kufr' and 'shirk'? You can't follow such things blindly? surely?

"naj" wrote:

holy smokes! lol

"Amber" wrote:

But I just don't get it, these people must have a lot of idle time to sit and around and think of nike trainer :roll:

u thinking to much about a nike trainer miss.

I'm thinking of it too much? You are the one that has made a thread attributed to the nike trainers? :roll: What I am doing is trying to make sense of this so called shirk. And when I am asking you for an explanation and when you fail to give it you are laughing it off.

Its a simple question, how hard is it, how is this associated to shirk and kufr?

I don't have a problem with anything, or your mufti saab frankly I couldnt care less. What I care about is this 'shirk' concept of yours, can i ask do you know what shirk is?

The mufti said anything associated with kufr or shirk is not allowed.

He never said anything associated with kufr or shirk is kufr/shirk.

Notice the 'not allowed' bit.

Can those people just notice that please

And according to mufti Desai the association is that Nike is a name for the greek goddess of war, thus things linked to it are not allowed.

So his statement is self explanatory, but people seem to be misinterpreting it.

"naj" wrote:

Answer
1. Kufr, Shirk and anything associated with it is prohibited. [b]Nike product is associated with Kufr and Shirk [/b]as its name is from a Greek diety.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Admin i aint readin that wrong see the above in bold, it says clearly Nike product is associated with kufr and shirk! According to my understanding that means wearing nike is shirk and kufr :roll:

"naj" wrote:

in simple words,

like mufti sahib says nike is associated with kufr and shirk agree.

nike means ( goddess of victory) therefore nike is attributing partners to ALLAH (SWT), so it is becomes associated with shirk..

thats why it aint good to wear the brand nike.

but obviously those who dont agree with this FATWA then fair enough.

Yes simply put he is saying not allowed to wear Nike, because nike can be associated with shirk due to the meaning of its name (which is a totally whole new argument...). Not the wearer/owner, but the company.

So In simple words Mufti Desai says:

1. The Nike Name is for Goddes of victory.
2. The name is thus associated with shirk.
3. It is not allowed to associate with shirk. (this is different from associating with Allah; that is shirk).
4. Thus wearing Nike is not allowed.

Not sure if that is what you meant? Just your wording could be taken to mean what I have wrote, as well as saying wearing nike makes you mushrik...

(Once again, I will re-state that I disagree with both, but I just wanna clarify the Mufti's words to make sure he is not attacked.)

ok admin i get your point, slightly missed that ,sorry :oops: too late for me must head off soon

Nike - just do it,
pick ur nose and chew it

lol

Naj, it dnt take Jimmy Neutron, Mufti Saabs or a genius to realize that the same argument for Nike would apply to Mars as well. its logical.

if u knw mars is a greek god, yet you continue to eat it... y r u telling me to stop stompin in ma Air Force One's coz its a greed goddess!

i think this rather strange fatwa has something to do with the belief that Nike's money goes to Israel and that we should boycott them - which is a totally different argument from what you are representing

"Not_a_Kuri" wrote:

Also I thought the Temple of NIKE was the acropyliss in Athens (temple of Athena patron of Athens) but thats it like the stone ring in salisbury is called stonehenge or the lop sided column in Italy is called Pizza, so [i]in my opinion[/i] its okay.

Nope the temple of NIKE aint Acropolis. Acropolis is just a historical site of Athens n the temple of Athena, the patron which Athens was named after. Just like London is recognized wen we c Big Ben, Paris the Eiffel Tower.

If ur a fan of history id recommend u to c Acropolis, the view from the top its beautiful, specially at nite

"Mujahidah" wrote:

"Not_a_Kuri" wrote:

Also I thought the Temple of NIKE was the acropyliss in Athens (temple of Athena patron of Athens) but thats it like the stone ring in salisbury is called stonehenge or the lop sided column in Italy is called Pizza, so [i]in my opinion[/i] its okay.

Nope the temple of NIKE aint Acropolis. Acropolis is just a historical site of Athens n the temple of Athena, the patron which Athens was named after. Just like London is recognized wen we c Big Ben, Paris the Eiffel Tower.

If ur a fan of history id recommend u to c Acropolis, the view from the top its beautiful, specially at nite

I stand corrected.

"Mujahidah" wrote:

If ur a fan of history id recommend u to c Acropolis, the view from the top its beautiful, specially at nite

hmm, whilst wearing my Nike trainners perhaps...

...That way I will be standing on Nike (trainers) on the platform of the temple of nike thus declaring ,my self to be above the of level shirk!

Just have to say this is a very silly agrument indeed.

But i agree muslims and people in general should really stop buying nike, buy something cheaper and then donate the rest to charity or something. Plus it will stop people getting caught up in all this stupid brand stuff IMO. But on it being haraam, it a far fetch agrument IMO. It come down to intention at the end of the day and no one will wear Nike for any other reason, but because they think they look good or they comfortable.

I wud just like to say that big respect to admin. MashaALLAH Brother you spoke a lot of wisdom in this thread. May ALLAH reward you ameen.

"Med" wrote:

well I was taught to stick with one mufti.

Now you mention its not ur nafs but because of taqwa. That is the same argument used by the salafiyya that we choose the masala which is more pious, whic is more authentic.

There is no difference in following mufti, in all issues save one cos u think its more pious, and following one madhab in everything except one cos u think its more pious.

I aint forcing any1 to do anything. But if we were to step back then we would see that our claims to taqwa either mean we have the firaasah to distinguish between two fatawa, that we can see the complex issues involved and what led to mufti coming to his rulling or it means we are being too confident in our own opinions.

No one cane comment on another, in this issue it is for each person to decide the state of their heart. Personally I openly say my diseased heart is devoid of any such taqwa, may ALLAH make me amongst the muttaqeen ameen.

I dont deny that certain fatawa are VERY hard to act on, and even some fatawa of Hadrat Mufti I find hard to act on and MY logic can justify it. But thats all it is logic, I dont have a leg to stand on when it comes to giving shari dalaail. Eg im doint dentistry, Hadrat Mufti are against touching, looking, dissecting the dead body and anatomy dissection of real bodies is a part of my course. I engage in the sin, I dont touch the body, I dont look at it unless I absolutely have to, I try to keep myself away from the sin but I am still engaged in sin by being there. My logic could justify it, oh we aint doing it for fun, its for education, if no muslim did it then all dentists would be kuffar etc etc. But No, i sin, and even if my logic can justify it I rely on mufti. cos like i said. I couldnt cope with AS Maths, I could only do 10 gcses, i cudnt get complete As for Alevels. These are secular pathetic subjects of the world and ME and my feeble mind couldnt excell in them so how can I ever think I have any understanding in deen? Its not possible. for me, I get confused by integration curves so how can I claim to be able to come out with what is more pious and better taqwa when it comes to fatawa?

No, not for me.

I have nothing against Salafis, but I'm not one. The only way I'm associated with them is that they are my brothers and sisters in deen.

I never said I had taqwa, and I never claimed that I can get my own rulings. I said how would you choose a scholar for all rulings. There are scholars out there who may seem perfect, but they may give rulings which I don't agree with. For example there are many scholars who say niqab is not needed at all. I could be following such a scholar and not realise. Now if he told me I don't need to wear niqab, I wouldn't listen to him. Not because I'm more pious but because I believe there's a lot of good in wearing the face veil.

There are many such examples, this doesn't mean I've got such arrogance as to believe I am a person of taqwa or have more piety than a scholar or any layman.

I don't like the way you make assumptions. I don't appreciate you trying to slander me here. I never made no suggestion that I was pious at all. I highlighted what I thght was a dilemma. Brother in future be careful of what you say about me. You may think little of it, but it seriously offended me.

BTW the fatwa I posted was given by a mufti not myself. So I'm not claiming to be able to distinguish between fatwas or complex issues of deen, this particular scholar made the distinction I merely posted it so you could see the other side of the argument. What harm is there in seeing both sides of the argument? Isn't it good to look into why scholars make different rulings, can't we learn something from this? I don't think it's a sin to look at both sides. We can become really narrow minded if we assume it's our way or no way.

"yashmaki" wrote:

Med wrote:
No one cane comment on another, in this issue it is for each person to decide the state of their heart. Personally I openly say my diseased heart is devoid of any such taqwa, may ALLAH make me amongst the muttaqeen ameen.

If you note Muhtarama I said no one can comment on another. For some reason you are taking my comments personally. I aint concerned whether you can distinguish on basis of taqwa, thats y i mentioned no one can comment on another, rather I was talking abt MYSELF.

I dunno what other slanders Im supposed to have said but please feel free to tell me so I can clarify.

Abt ur post, yeh Muftis have different fatawa, but AGAIN I dont have the knowledge to say which mufti has the more correct fatwa. Hence I refer to One Mufti Hadrat.

"yashmaki" wrote:

I don't like the way you make assumptions. I don't appreciate you trying to slander me here. I never made no suggestion that I was pious at all. I highlighted what I thght was a dilemma. Brother in future be careful of what you say about me. You may think little of it, but it seriously offended me.

. . .

Isn't it good to look into why scholars make different rulings, can't we learn something from this? I don't think it's a sin to look at both sides. We can become really narrow minded if we assume it's our way or no way.

Again tell me specifically what I said and I will clarify. But I was intending that no one can comment on another.

In response to looking at scholars giving different rulings yes that is good but for who I ask? I dont think I will gain anything save confusion by studying different fatawa by different Muftis, by us this is a great calamity in ones deen because it makes one (referring to myself) a fatwa shopper where we dial or find a fatwa which suits us. Yes you may say that the person could choose the fatwa of taqwa, but again they are not choosing because they understand the complex issue but rather because they from their own selves think this is the taqwa option, they themselves are deciding with no shari dalaail etc. Studying different fatawa is what is done in the year of Takhassus in Fatawa and in the few years under tutelage of a Mufti in darul iftaa. By ALL means, study the different rulings and understand them, but I wouldnt trust myself to do that unless I did it under the guidance of an alim of truth. Sorry, but I have deep issues in trusting myself in deen, I rely on the ulama for guidance and I was taught that if you want to learn then do so under the correct guidance, not like a loose cannon (again referring to myself )

No1 said anything abt my way or no way. The Mufti Hadraat make different rulings, I stick with the Mufti who I have confidence, if another has a diferent ruling from their mufti then they are welcome to it. Its not a matter which will send to jannah or jahannum inshaALLAH.