"Admin" wrote:

Well the media can help there.

All Israeli raids are in retaliation to Palestinian attacks.

All Palestinians attacks are unjustified murder, with no prior violence from Israelis.

That is what the TV says...

Two things - when you talk about the media as a big monster that is picking on the muslim community the nonmuslm community is ignoring you, or questioning your allegiance. The nonmuslim community by and large trusts the news - devoid of any connection to the media positive or negative the nonmuslim public believes in the good intentions of the media.

The second thing is the media is not going to help anyone but itself.

You have to think practically here - muslim strategies to present itself in the best possible light to nonmuslims and break down a lot of these prejudices are going to have to work around the media barrier.

The media is reflecting the prejudices - not creating them.

"irfghan" wrote:

But seemingly no such distrust of the Israelis. :?

Gives us something to work towards.

Almost no distrust of the Israelis. Why should there be? They appear to be a fully functioning democracy in the midst of a democratic wasteland. They are staunch allies of the United States, they have been dealing with terrorism for years - they speak english.

The nonmuslim community is going to be more willing to accept what israel has to say on a given situation than what the disorganized nonstate of palestine has to say almost every time.

The average western nonmuslim has very little in common with a palestinian and is therefor suspicious of them.

"Constantine" wrote:

Almost no distrust of the Israelis. Why should there be? They appear to be a fully functioning democracy in the midst of a democratic wasteland. They are staunch allies of the United States, they have been dealing with terrorism for years - they speak english.

The nonmuslim community is going to be more willing to accept what israel has to say on a given situation than what the disorganized nonstate of palestine has to say almost every time.

The average western nonmuslim has very little in common with a palestinian and is therefor suspicious of them.

Isrealis speak Hebrew.

As long as you're a demcracy you can do anything to anyone who is not in a 'democracy'?

Democratic wasteland because of who?

SA, Egypt are US allies.

Muslim countries likewise face terrorism.

This smacks of a 'civilisation v barabarism' attitude.

Some people are so duumb.

.

"Admin" wrote:

Practically speaking, why orla guerrin the only correspondent of the Israel/Palestine issue on Sky News?

And she rarely goes to the palestinian areas..

I don't know Sky News but I will say this, the media gets its ratings by confirming for the public what it knows. Everybody likes to be told they are right. That is why Fox took off in this country. The average nonmuslim american has nothing in common with a palestinian - everything about them is remarkably weird - why don't they have a civilized government? why dont they have any infrastructure? why arent they like Israel - americas little brother with a fully functioning democracy and modern technology?

Something must be wrong with them that they prefer all this violence.

Turn on the TV and there are two options Charlie Rose who talks to some guy named Edward Said who says we should feel sorry for these Palestinians and Israeli policies contribute to their plight? Or CNN which has them jumping around shooting guns into the air?

I knew it! Says the nonmuslim, there it is on TV!! Its in their nature to be violent!

Ratings go up CNN gets its advertising money, Charlie Rose gets pushed to midnight to make way for more "interesting" programming.

The media is reflecting the stereotypes and as long as they are profitable muslims should not and cannot rely on the media in any long term strategy.

I'm just trying to tell you how a nonmuslim thinks and why muslims seem to get the cold shoulder every time they try to speak.

"irfghan" wrote:

Isrealis speak Hebrew.

As long as you're a demcracy you can do anything to anyone who is not in a 'democracy'?

Democratic wasteland because of who?

SA, Egypt are US allies.

Muslim countries likewise face terrorism.

This smacks of a 'civilisation v barabarism' attitude.

Some people are so [banned word].

Many Israelis speak English and quite well - look at Netanyahu.

It's not so much a civilization v barbarism attitude although that does exist - its a matter of connection.

You feel more comfortable trusting "people like you"

It's a fact of human social interaction.

It's not that they are trying to screw palestine - but rather that they don't understand these strange palestinians - or what they want, or why they intensely dislike people just like us (the israelis).

I'm not sure which came first with the media and prejudices but I know verifiably since after the communications regulatory changes of the 1980s media reflects social prejudices, which further fuel social prejudices.

The public is in this cycle to have what it knows - it's prejudices - confirmed,

The media is in this cycle to make as much money as possible.

I have no idea how to break that cycle but when it is broken the nonmuslim public [i]will[/i] be more open to muslim issues on terrorism and Israel with minimal prejudice.

That's because they never let good English speaking Arabs on the telly too often.

There was a really intelligent articulate Christian Arab lawyer on Sky News once. Once. Just once.

Edward Said was very intelligent. But he is being discredited.

I'm glad there's such a thing as [url=http://www.mpacuk.org.uk]MPAC[/url]. I'm gonna right to the papers more often.

"irfghan" wrote:

That's because they never let good English speaking Arabs on the telly too often.

There was a really intelligent articulate Christian Arab lawyer on Sky News once. Once. Just once.

Edward Said was very intelligent. But he is being discredited.

I'm glad there's such a thing as [url=http://www.mpacuk.org.uk]MPAC[/url]. I'm gonna right to the papers more often.

I'm sure there are good english speakers in the Arab world. Why would the media want to show them?

Would anybody [i]want[/i] to watch a news program that says "you are a prejudiced person and your prejudices are wrong"

No - and now that we have a choice of news programs the public goes for the ones that most confirms what they believe.

This is a drastic change from the media of the 50s - 70s where you were told the news end of subject. Sometimes you liked it sometimes you didnt - which usually meant you had to work on something.

Nobody back then particularly liked bad news - just like nobody likes it today, but they had no other "truth options."

The media is a business guided by profit - look at Americas number one News program - NBC News, they are owned by GE. It's assonine to believe GE doesn't have earnings projections for NBC and that they look upon their news program as a "civil service."

The beasts feed off of themselves.

I simply don't see a way muslims will break into the cycle - the media will not change unless it becomes profitable to challenge "commonly held understandings."

Although it is hard for the public to change its prejudices - especially with reinforcement coming from CNN, it is the only possible entry I see for muslims to change.

It is going to take a mountain of work and way better PR skills.

It's an unfair burden, but unfortunately that was the deck of cards dealt to the muslim community. I think it would say a lot about the muslims as people and citizens if they were able to stand up to the challenge and both change the status quo to reflect something more real, and not go overboard with any newfound powers and tip the balance back the other way.

Because it's a zero sum game, you either win, or keep fighting ad nauseum.

But do not count on the media. They will not help you when you need them, they will not help you when you need them, they will not help you when you need them!

"Admin" wrote:

Ok back to topic. What can be done?

I would suggest the muslim community offers real tangible [i]alternatives[/i] to programs that are detrimental to the muslim community or adjudged pointless. I would also suggest not voicing objections as a muslim minority, the majority cannot identify with the minority - in a thousand years this will not happen - it's precisely why the US Constitution had to create a government in which minority rights were protected against the majority. Rather, voice your objections as you (the admin) did with ID cards - something everybody relates to "i don't like it because it will be used against muslims" is not as sympathetic to the majority ear as "i don't like it because a terrorist is not stupid enough to put in terrorist as his career."

It's thinking inclusively - perhaps a little deceptively but ultimately what I think would benefit the muslim community most.

Some of you guys will bring Israel into everything. Come to think of it that's just what al-Qaeda does. Anything to deflect the issue. How about some outrage over Algeria? Nigeria? Sudan? No, as long as your enemy is a clearly defined other you can keep on moaning and sit on your hands. You know it.

(And if you think Orla Guerin's pro-Israel you can think again, she's as Fisk as they come. Meanwhile what few synagogues Hamas didn't burn down are being [url=http://www.nysun.com/article/20420]renovated Palestinian style[/url].)