Women's Voice Pardah?

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[quote="MuslimSister"][quote="Constantine"]

Is it possible muslims get carried away with this idea of Pardah - you have to balance commandments of modesty with the facts that God did design men to be attractive to women and women to be attractive to men.

[/quote]

Your right.

Islam is the religion is the religion of moderation..the "middle way".[/quote]

Where is it...

[quote="Constantine"][quote="MuslimSister"][quote="Constantine"]

Is it possible muslims get carried away with this idea of Pardah - you have to balance commandments of modesty with the facts that God did design men to be attractive to women and women to be attractive to men.

[/quote]

Your right.

Islam is the religion is the religion of moderation..the "middle way".[/quote]

Where is it...[/quote]

Where is what..?

You said that Muslims get carried away with the idea of pardah..I agreed by stating that Islam is described/supposed to be the "religion of moderation".

But some people like to make it extreme...

I mean where is the middle way?

[quote="Constantine"]I mean where is the middle way?[/quote]

I don’t know where it is…. :?

Basically the “middle way” is the way that is easy to adopt, isn’t impractical and doesn’t inconvenience others.

We are told to “beware of excessiveness in religion as it led to fall of those before you”.

The middle way is neither takin it easy (not identifying the human nature) nor is it takin it too extreme, in this case...a women can talk but should not speak in a seductive manner or in a way to attract anyone.

[quote="MuslimSister"]We are told to “beware of excessiveness in religion as it led to fall of those before you”.[/quote]

wow - is that in the Qur'an?

Middle way and moderation has been bandied around a lot lately, but what exactly is it?

My belief is that everything about islam is the middle way regardless of how the society is going. For example in Islam it is expected that the men stop their work five times a day and go into the masjid and pray collectively, today this is not the middle way. It is an extreme to have people doing this daily for the whole of their mature lives; so although islam is the middle way it doesnt mean that it is the middle way in todays society. What it does mean is that OVERALL it is the middle way.

Another example is the woman who veils herself including the face and hands. Now in todays society that is extreme, I openly say such an act in relation to today is extreme. The moderate path in relation to what is going on today is for her to wear a skirt and a tight blouse and a nice brightly coloured gucci scarf with lipstick and sunglasses. She is being moderate in that she is covering up a bit and showing a bit. But I think those of understanding will see that the women who do full hijab in its true sense are infact acting on islam and are moderate wheras it may APPEAR that they are extreme.

So, the basic gist is that Islam is moderate but not by the standards of today because we know for a fact that closer and closer to the end times more and more sins will become widespread and common so in that case obviously the 'middle way' will naturally shift to become more sinful as the level of evil shifts.

Islam is truth and truth is immutable.

[quote="Med"]Middle way and moderation has been bandied around a lot lately, but what exactly is it?

Another example is the woman who veils herself including the face and hands. Now in todays society that is extreme, I openly say such an act in relation to today is extreme. The moderate path in relation to what is going on today is for her to wear a skirt and a tight blouse and a nice brightly coloured gucci scarf with lipstick and sunglasses. She is being moderate in that she is covering up a bit and showing a bit. But I think those of understanding will see that the women who do full hijab in its true sense are infact acting on islam and are moderate wheras it may APPEAR that they are extreme.
[/quote]

bad example there Med, NO MUSLIM says a woman who wears tight blouse, tight or revealing skirt, lipstick etc is the middle way....as it goes against shar'i rulings. The middle way is to wear any clothes which cover your body, which are not tight, which are loose, which do not show the outline of your body, which do not reveal any part of ypur nody apart from the hands, face and feet, which make you look modest- that can be a headscarf, long loose skirt, long coat, shirt and jumper etc...basically anything that fulfills the islamic criteria for the islamic dress code. extremism is when one who doesnt wear a niqab and a jilbaab- long loose cloak- and they are seen as 'modern' or 'liberal', secular, not really islamic etc.....

Islam is the middle path, the prophet ﷺ said beware of extremism, as this is how the earlier communities went astray.

wasalaam

he stated thats what appears to be the middle in TODAYS society

[quote="khan"]clearly there has been a ruling on the voice of a women in the Qur'an.. for there to be such a statement implies importance, as its the word of Allah, unfortunatly Muslims on here don't care about that..

They're more concerned about manipulating verses where women are speaking (their right which nobody disputes), and make pathetic attempts to suggest there are no guidelines.

obviously there are far greater, issues.. but since this is a topic about the voice.. its whats being discussed..? i didn't start it.. lol

u can't refuse to accept a verse in the Qur'an,..

if you do not accept the Qur'an in its entirety.. I'm sorry, but ur a fake Muslim.

at least be a man and admit that u dont accept that verse.. after all ur not providing any alternative commentary from the Ulama.

Yes women can speak.. but with strangers they gta watch their tone.. Yes they can go out and work, but they gotta maintain Hijab..

wether we follow it or not is another issue, but at least accept it as a revelation from Allah swt.[/quote]

lol

i think u are talking about me there...
if u read my posts i have said, womans voice is not part of the awrah, they can talk to men out of neccesity and of course they have to be modest, not flirt, not put on a sexy voice, but talk normal, with modesty...simple.
i am not denying any verses bro..think before you accuse me of something...you cant provide ANY references, evidences, views of the scholars on this issue so dont throw accusations pls..i have provided my views with references.
dont be so harsh, ...

Salaam,

I can understand what Med means though, Ed. I have many friends and axquaintances who observe hijaab, but wear fitted clothing - even jilbaabs with a 'fitted' shape to them. It's deemed 'acceptable' in a lot of Muslim communities. I wear loose fitting clothes and a niqaab, and I have had even Muslims ask me why I wear it as it's not necessary.... 'Islam doesn't say you HAVE to wear a niqaab. Look at so-and-so [pointing out person in fitted clothing] - she's a good, decent Muslim too, she wears hijaab.. you don't have to go *this* far'.

How many girls wear jeans and shirt with their head-coverings and it's 'ok'? The slightly too liberal, relaxed attitude is becoming far more acceptable these days.

Wassalaam

[quote="Constantine"][quote="MuslimSister"]We are told to “beware of excessiveness in religion as it led to fall of those before you”.[/quote]

wow - is that in the Qur'an?[/quote]

Its a hadith.

However, the "middle way" is debatable. This thread itself is a classic example of how people can not agree on what actually is the "middle way".

Just want to point out I'm not saying women should all wear a niqaab - but just that, to me, it seems far more acceptable in society these days to not wear one. We all know it's not fard.

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]he stated thats what appears to be the middle in TODAYS society[/quote]

glad som1 actually bothered to read my post and understand it rather than just look for another excuse to start a fight . . .

[quote="Med"][quote="Darth V-Hayder"]he stated thats what appears to be the middle in TODAYS society[/quote]

glad som1 actually bothered to read my post and understand it rather than just look for another excuse to start a fight . . .[/quote]

pick a fight? grow up! cant i disagree with you , ur highness....?
if u bother to read my post you might actually understand what im trying to say...before you get your violin out.

neway...

MuslimSister,

I'm sure you realise a Hadith warning against extremism is very forward thinking. So i'm sure you can understand my curiosity. When was it written and by whom was it written?

Salam

Yes, she is right. The Holy Prophet on many occasions warned against fanaticism.

He said: "Destroyed are those who go to extremes. "

Omrow

[quote="Constantine"]MuslimSister,

I'm sure you realise a Hadith warning against extremism is very forward thinking. So i'm sure you can understand my curiosity. When was it written and by whom was it written?[/quote]

..I have no idea. I have heard scholars speak about this in lectures. But I will ask for you.

Thank you

The Messenger of Allaah ﷺ said, "I warn you of extremism in the Religion for indeed those that came before you were destroyed due to their extremism in the religion."

Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (5/268), ibn Maajah (no. 3029), Ahmad (1/215, 347) with a saheeh sanad.

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[quote="kuri/19"]

so tru...the other day my cousins from alum rock came down...just could not understand what they were on bout

up north accent is much betta[/quote]

Muhtarama doesnt like alum rock accent?

I got a bit of an alum rock accent but cos im in sheffield for 5 yrs for uni probably change into a bit of a yorkshireaccent. sheffield is up north isnt it?

I like north accent with cerain ppl but not generally.

alum rock accent is hard to get...im from up north the accent is eazy to

understand...sheffield aint up north im sure its south, its approx 2 hours

from here, but sheffield accent is pretty similar to ours coz my cousins from there talk like us.

[quote="Aphrodite"]Salaam,

I can understand what Med means though, Ed. I have many friends and axquaintances who observe hijaab, but wear fitted clothing - even jilbaabs with a 'fitted' shape to them. It's deemed 'acceptable' in a lot of Muslim communities. I wear loose fitting clothes and a niqaab, and I have had even Muslims ask me why I wear it as it's not necessary.... 'Islam doesn't say you HAVE to wear a niqaab. Look at so-and-so [pointing out person in fitted clothing] - she's a good, decent Muslim too, she wears hijaab.. you don't have to go *this* far'.

How many girls wear jeans and shirt with their head-coverings and it's 'ok'? The slightly too liberal, relaxed attitude is becoming far more acceptable these days.

Wassalaam[/quote]
good post aph. 🙂 (i know u posted it ages ago, but i only saw it now :oops: )

actually I think sheffield is up north. Depends where u live. compared to bham sheffield is upnorth, perhaps compared to anpother placeits down south.

As for accents. Alum Rock accent is one of the best in the world. i dont like nasty rochdale accent that much, sound too slow. Alum Rock Zindabad!

[quote="Med"]. i dont like nasty rochdale accent that much, sound too slow. Alum Rock Zindabad![/quote]

how can u call rochdale accent nasty, thats my accent ...live bout 20 mins from there...aint slow either

lol. well its not that nasty. but u dont like my alum rock accent so I cudnt just sit and not say anything.

like i said b4, with some ppl the accent is pleasant. I got enough cousins in rochdale and to be honest its not that bad.

[quote="Med"]lol. well its not that nasty. but u dont like my alum rock accent so I cudnt just sit and not say anything.

like i said b4, with some ppl the accent is pleasant. I got enough cousins in rochdale and to be honest its not that bad.[/quote]

well good u've admitted it aint that bad, so i guess its arite...but wallahi

your accent is pretty bad....even the way you say water..lol it makes me

laugh

wohh-ta?