Ziauddin Sardar - BBC2 Tonight

Beast —

[size=18]Battle for Islam[/size]

[b]Since the events of 11 September 2001, headlines focusing on Islamic extremism have hidden the story of radical change and intense soul searching in many Muslim countries. [/b]

In an epic journey, celebrated British Muslim writer and broadcaster Ziauddin Sardar travels to five Muslim countries: Turkey, Pakistan, Morocco, Indonesia and Malaysia.

He reveals how heads of government, intellectuals and opinion formers are seeking new interpretations of Islam, offering a more tolerant approach to other faiths and cultures, and seeking to disentangle Islam from political ideology.

Even Sharia law, for many Muslims the bedrock of their faith, is being re-examined and in some countries radically reformed.

Contrary to expectation, in some Muslim countries it is women who are leading the charge for change.

Along the way, Sardar meets ordinary Muslims caught between the reformers and the fundamentalists.

He examines whether changes are taking millions of Muslims into a future where they can co-exist peaceably with non-Islamic countries, and assesses the ever-present threat from extremists.

[b]Monday, 5 September, 2005
BBC Two, 2100 BST [/b]

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/battle_for_islam/4177564.stm]Batt… for Islam[/url]

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/battle_for_islam/4203918.stm]View… The global voices reclaiming Islam[/url]

Forum

Sirus — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 11:38

Very true, Very Tru....i wont be able to watch it either, but sum1 please let me knw what its like

Islam is for all times....it doesnt need changing nor should it. i find it silly how people try altering the laws of Allah swt to make life easy!! wheres the struggle in that???

Mujahidah — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 14:48

[quote="Darth Hayder"] i find it silly how people try altering the laws of Allah swt to make life easy!! wheres the struggle in that???[/quote]

Thats is very true.

Sum misguided pple think when the word "jihad" is mentioned it all bout fighting but it isnt as well all no its bout struggling "jihad e nafs". That is spiritually nt physically.

Sirus — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 14:49

One can only achieve spirituality when they havd done the Jihad of the Nafs!!
...long way to go yet 😂

Can some1 giv us a report on it once uve watched it sil vous plait

Medarris — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 15:07

jihad e nafs eh?

so whats mujahadah?
I though struggling against the nafs is termed mujahadah, that struggling in battle is jihad.

Ooops must be ANOTHER mistake that the classical scholars made and you guys know better. Sorry my bad!

Beast — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 15:07

[quote="angel"][quote="Darth Hayder"]Please

tu p'arlais la francias?[/quote]

vi.....[/quote]

Some subtitles would be great. :roll:

Angel — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 15:20

[quote="irfghan"][quote="angel"][quote="Darth Hayder"]Please

tu p'arlais la francias?[/quote]

vi.....[/quote]

Some subtitles would be great. :roll:[/quote]

Sil vous plait =please
Tu p'arlais la francias?= do u speak/understand (cnt rember which) french
vi=yes
non=no

Comprende irf? that means do u.......guess?

Angel — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 22:52

[quote="Darth Hayder"]angel needs correcting 😛

yes is OUI (wee)

PARLAIS is speak

and Comprende is Spanish[/quote]

ooopsie!!! oui, damn i shud have known that but forgot blame my french teacher, hmm comprende i have always assumed is french :?

p.s. you got it right afghani

Beast — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 22:54

Missed the first 10 mins. But:

Zia visits Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Morroco, and Turkey. He talks to, I suppose, the kind of Muslims that he thinks we should all be.

He manages to talk to Musharraf, Prime Minister Badawi of Malaysia, Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey. They all talk to him about their versions of Islam.

In Pakistan he meets a fashion designer who talks about Islam being about 'the simplicity of life'.
In Indonesia he meet a female hairdresser who does his hair, doesn't wear hijab, but reads namaz and would allow her child to choose what religion she wants to follow.
In Turkey he meets a supermodel who does skimpily-clad photo-shoots and 'prays'.
Among others.

The general jist of the documentary was that Islam is capable of change. Islam needs to embrace modernity. Islam has to be pluralistic. Muslims should progress. Women should have more rights. Sharia is at the expense of women.

No real substance. But I suppose that was becuase the target audience was non-Muslims.

He finishes by saying that he wants to see the kinds of reforms he presented in documentary to be implemented in the 'heartlands of the Middle East'.

PS He said he has mixed views on Ataturk. But apparently only because he shouldn't have made the military so influential or something.

Medarris — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 22:58

Imam Hasan Basri commenting on the people of his time.

''If the Sahabah Karaam saw you people today they would not have accepted you as muslims, and had you seen the Sahabah Karaam you would have called them mad.''

Imam Hasan Basri was a tabi'ee. He was breastfed miraculously at house of Ummul Mumineen Umm Salma radhiyallahu anha, he was bayat to Sayyidina Ali radhiyallahu anh.

If he made the above comments about the people of his time, what can we say about our state today? Those who understand will comprehend the gravity of Imam Hasan Basri's statement.

You — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 23:01

there was a message trying to get out (in the bit I watched), but was butchered by the story telling.

Islam is a whole way of life. Do not pick and choose.

For instance, In the malaysian bit, I saw a hint that the problem wwas not a conflict with Islam, but with the picking and choosing of which parts to implement, which were causing problems, and causing inequality.

You — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 23:03

there was a message trying to get out (in the bit I watched), but was butchered by the story telling.

Islam is a whole way of life. Do not pick and choose.

For instance, In the malaysian bit, I saw a hint that the problem wwas not a conflict with Islam, but with the picking and choosing of which parts to implement, which were causing problems, and causing inequality.

salaf — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 23:19

I don't understand why Turkey is always held up as an example for the rest of the muslim world.

The military is the ultimate power in the land, it experiences terrorism from various ideologies, the Kurdish area of the country is very unstable plus there is an enormous amount of violence towards women even more so than some more religious places like Ache in Indonesia or west Africa.

Notice how people like Sardar are all for adapting Islam but never question modernism's effect on the environment or on the proliferation of WMD around the world. These are the real issues. Whether muslim men have one or two wives is pretty irrelevant to the course of history.

In my opinion this concept of Tolerance as it is advocated is really more about not questioning secularism rather than being tolerant.

You — Mon, 5 Sep 2005 - 23:20

Turkey is a repressive regime.

It does not allow muslims (who are the vast majority) to fully follow Islam.

Mujahidah — Tue, 6 Sep 2005 - 10:14

[quote="Admin"]Turkey is a repressive regime.

It does not allow muslims (who are the vast majority) to fully follow Islam.[/quote]

Tell me bout it mum luved every single bit of Turkey...really disappointing 🙁

Ive gt to admit that most parts were quiet disappointing especially seen such Muslims taking Islam in pieces n nt as a whole.

I used 2 think only the West had no much respect for Islam but it just proves so has the East, especially Pakistan...really disappointing 🙁

Oh well didnt like the country apart 4rm sum places, the 1st time i visited n havent been since then.

yuit — Tue, 6 Sep 2005 - 10:15

I think you tend to get two type of people in Islam.

The one who let their life dicate how Islam should be.

The other who allow islam to dictate their life.

This show was obviously just about the first type of muslim, but it kind of funny as they still think what they doing is for the best and what was intended for islam. :roll:

MuslimSisLilSis — Tue, 6 Sep 2005 - 10:18

actually there's a third type

the ones who are extreme in their understanding in Islam-make Islam seem too ridgid and hard and incompatible with todays times

this results in the "modernist" like the one who presented last nights show

yuit — Tue, 6 Sep 2005 - 10:23

But these extremist you call them are from the second type of muslim, as they let islam dictate to them. You may or may not agree with them, but they try leaving nothing to chance in pleasing Allah swt. The first type are infact just trying to make islam look cute and trying to appease all the non muslims and changing the message to do so. The rest just try to understand islam for what it is. It doesn't mean all the people in the second type agree with each other, there is room for differences.

MuslimSisLilSis — Tue, 6 Sep 2005 - 10:26

the extremist are the ones who are always in the news

they are the reason behind the "modernists" and the reason why Islam has a bad name

there are THREE diff types of Muslims

Mujahidah — Tue, 6 Sep 2005 - 10:32

[quote="MuslimSisLilSis"]the extremist are the ones who are always in the news

they are the reason behind the "modernists" and the reason why Islam has a bad name

there are THREE diff types of Muslims[/quote]

I agree, u just reminded me one of the lectures that took place in Glasgow this year.

Plus the media is alwayz interested in wayz of giving a bad name 2 Islam instead of helping it.