Taliban-Muslims & Submitters-Kaffirs=???

judda —

I is sick to death of hearing people call Taliban Muslims and the Submitters Kaffirs. Any way what did u like about the bloody Taliban so much that you can even think to call them Muslims? Their black hearts? or maybe there exhilarating lifestyle? I is disgusted! Shame on u revival!

Why do u h8 submitters so much? and what is it with Rashad Khalifa?

Rashad Khalifa was treated as a hero first by the same religious groups that attack him now, when he discovered the Mathematical Miracle of the Quran. The significance of the number 19 is NOT the only miracle in the Koran and Rashad Khalifa does not have the intellectual capacity to discover all the other miracles in the Koran, many others have been discovered too and there are still more to be discovered. http://groups.msn.com/PaKiMuSLiMz/theholyquran.msnw All calculations are done on a computer, I know Islam is a backwards religion but God never prohibited the computer, so u can all check 4 ur self…

When Rashad Khalifa called him self a messenger and told his followers to reject hadith and sunna then he was defamed, attacked, insulted then assassinated

Rashad Khalifa was assassinated in January, 1990. A group of Black Muslims named Fuqara were used by international terrorist forces operating from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The FBI discovered later that the group Fuqara was related to the group that bombed the World Trade Center on September, 11, 2001, they are related to Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden.

The Taliban had the strictest interpretation of Islam and the Submitters have the most lenient interpretation of Islam. The Submitter reject Hadith and Sunna and the Taliban turned their back on the Holy Koran.

And I want a debate about “who is worse” Taliban or Submitters? Or who do YOU think God hates more… and who do YOU hate more….

Coz my beliefs are entwined with Whabism and submission, I is sure u know what I think….

Forum

Dave — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 - 16:17

[quote="irfghan"][quote="Judda"]like telling ppl to kill kafirs in muslim countries?[/quote]

I don't think I would be taking advice off anyone about that. That's not something I want to be doing.

I'm sure there's more Abu Hamza than just telling people to kill kafirs in Muslim countries.[/quote]

Ocassionally he talks about killing kafirs in non muslim countries...

Beast — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 - 16:40

If my hand fell off I would listen to his advice about hooks if he offered it.

If I ever find myself as a nightclub bouncer, I would listen to his advice if he offered it.

Dave — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 - 16:40

Matters of swashbuckling mostly

Totally random question - is it seriously true he's a big fan of Leann Rimes?

And does bin Laden play volleyball?

Dave — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 - 16:42

[quote="irfghan"]If I ever find myself as a nightclub bouncer, I would listen to his advice if he offered it.[/quote]

hahahhaha wow seriously?

nightclub bouncer to raving nut case

Not so much of a leap

I guess that explains the Leann Rimes thing

Sirus — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 - 20:25

[quote="Constantine"]

And does bin Laden play volleyball?[/quote]

all i know is he supports Arsenal......dont care if hes a terrorist, thats enough reason not to like him :evil:

Sirus — Thu, 22 Sep 2005 - 00:38

Nope. Definitely Arsenal

nothing to do with the fact theyre also known as 'The Gunners' of course 😂

but seriously, he was even considering buying them

Dave — Thu, 22 Sep 2005 - 00:40

Evenin' Lord Haydar!

lol bin laden's considered buying half of North America.

prolly could do it too

I wonder what the state of his assets are presently...

judda — Thu, 22 Sep 2005 - 08:29

watching footy sucks!

but I do play for the school team :o

hamza is a flirt.

he has got a penpal and she is a WOMAN!

she said she thinks he is fit, she wants to be friends with him then let that friendship blossom into somthing else :? .... she said it on the news.... i was amused 😃

judda — Mon, 26 Sep 2005 - 10:53

[quote="irfghan"]If my hand fell off I would listen to his advice about hooks if he offered it.

If I ever find myself as a nightclub bouncer, I would listen to his advice if he offered it.[/quote]

what advice about islam wud u take from that wierdo irfghan?

BTW Yvonne Rhidley is a [u]WAHHABI[/u]- she don't like ppl that commit shirk, do u still think the lady was actually [i]normal[/i]?

Beast — Mon, 26 Sep 2005 - 21:00

[quote="Judda"]
what advice about islam wud u take from that wierdo irfghan?

BTW Yvonne Rhidley is a [u]WAHHABI[/u]- she don't like ppl that commit shirk, do u still think the lady was actually [i]normal[/i]?[/quote]

I don't know.

But even if I didn't want to take his advice I would still listen to what he had to say, if only for an academic purpose.

Wahhabis are [i]normal[/i]. They don't have horns on their heads.

judda — Tue, 27 Sep 2005 - 08:48

they is funny in the head, they see things that are not real, they is accusing u of committing shirk-[u]wen u don't do it[/u] :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dave — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 - 16:32

I haven't read this whole thread through but I do have some questions for anyone that might agree the Taliban are muslims (in the most uncomfortable sense of the word), as it relates to my growing understanding of you.

From what I have seen here islam is orthopractic - not orthodoxic (like christianity is). That is to say you have little disagreements on what is the correct belief since you believe the Qur'an is infallible and undebatable. There are some major disagreements it seems on shariah law etc but your doctrinal and dogmatic debates pale in comparison to the search for orthodoxy that appears to define Christianity (historic debates on the nature of God's oneness, etc).

Rather, you all appear to be concerned most about how to impliment the correct and shared doctrine, in a manner that best or most closely follows what is required. Your debates are practice oriented "this is what the prophet said - and this is closest aligned with the prophet's words."

It would also seem to me that this is part of a larger understanding that Islam isn't just pretty words but requires implimentation of those words. You say this is a whole way of life - and life is action and practice. So I have determined that as a matter of understood and unchallenged doctrine, muslims believe being a muslim means taking an active role in doing what God tells you to do.

Submitting is a verb - it is physically done. I don't know if you noticed but in your prayers you are reinacting the submission of an ancient soldier on the field to his victor - i've seen that same position on ancient hieroglyphics.

So it really seems to an outsider that correct practice of submitting to God, and obeying his laws - is what makes a muslim a muslim - in a very real, textually grounded way.

I think Muslim Sister once told me that it's not a sin if you think about doing it - it's only the action itself that is sinful.

Considering that, and considering what we know about the taliban - running around whipping people with electrical chords, raping afghani girls, and such - how can you say they are muslims?

They are not obeying the laws of God even though they believe them - and may believe in their dementia that they are following those laws. They unlike the submitters may be orthodoxic - but they are not orthopractic.

And with all this emphasis on action - how can you say missing that vital point they are still muslims?

The Submitters are missing the Orthodoxy, the Taliban are missing the Orthopraxy - to an outsider it appears neither are muslims.

So to those who might choose the Taliban over the Submitters as "true muslims" (if you are even there... again I didn't read the entire thread) how can you justify that claim in light of this consideration?

And for everyone at large - are my observations even correct?

Sirus — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 - 18:56

you need to make ur posts and questions shorter....i may have attempted to answer, despite probably not knowing the answer 😂

in short, what are you asking? 😉

Beast — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 - 19:02

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]you need to make ur posts and questions shorter....i may have attempted to answer, despite probably not knowing the answer 😂

in short, what are you asking? :wink:[/quote]

I think he's asking:

'What makes a Muslim a Muslim?'

and

'Did the Taliban, by doing what they did, disqualify themselves from being Muslim?'

You — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 - 19:03

Islam is about practice. However intentions matter alot.

if your beliefs are correct you are a muslim. If you have problems with your actions, you are either a good muslim, or a bad one.

The Taliban's aqeedah was not radicalkly different.

just their practice of Islamic tenets was unique, and naive.

they made mistakes, and did not acknowledge many problems.

However that does not make them disbelievers.

On the other hand submitters change the underlying principle of belief. That makes them kaafir.

as an example, a car is a car. It can be manual, it can be automatic. it can be efficient, it can be american (:twisted:). However if it has four legs, and walks, it is not a car.

judda — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 08:36

[quote="Admin"]On the other hand submitters change the underlying principle of belief. That makes them kaafir.

as an example, a car is a car. It can be manual, it can be automatic. it can be efficient, it can be american (:twisted:). However if it has four legs, and walks, it is not a car.[/quote]

well to be precice the taliban rejected the koran and sunnah, they only followed hadith [that are written by demons :evil: ] wheares the submitters transalated the koran in a completely different way and came to a conclusion that the koran was all they need for salvation. There are loads of submitter sects; khalifites being just one of them and not all of them believe in a messenger after muhammad.

i hear ppl call submitters kafirs and ahmedis muslims. but they both believe in a messengers after muhammad (well most submitters anyway). i reckon thats coz submitters interpretaion of the koran gives ppl the creeps coz it is not barberic enuff.

a true believer who feared god would not have done what the taliban have done.

You — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 11:18

Taliban did not reject qur'an or sunnah.

hadith is a part of sunnah.

saying hadith are written by the devil is not acceptable as its in the quran that two things have been left behind for guidance. One of them is the Qur'an.

judda — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 11:33

i was told sunnah is action and hadith were oral and the quaran was an outline to the laws (which stupid submitters think is complete).

Most hadith do not explain the koran, they talk about stuff which the koran is silent on like peeing sitting down like a girl.

Each sect has its own set of "authentic" Hadith furnishing reinforcement for their beliefs.

i.e. wahabis like bilal philps talk about hadith that talk about shirk and what it is and why we should avoid it, whearas others like tahir ul qadri talks about some garbage that the hadith say muhammad never feared shirk from his ummah.

[b]HAVE U EVEN READ ONE OF TALIBANS HADITH[/b] :!: :?:

one of them said islam was spread by the sword and it should be spread by violence :!:

[b]UR OF YOUR HEAD IF YOU THINK THAT IS ISLAM[/b]

erm... actually was islam really spread by the sword?

it is written in a hadith afterall... which allegedly explains the koran...

You — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 21:03

All the hadith books are the same for all sects.

Some people just selectively quote.

The taliban do not have a different set of hadith books.

The knowledge contained in the quran is immense. However The hadith help explain it, as knowledge can corrupt. The Hadith (which are a part of Sunnah) help guide us.

Judda, say grave worshippers once again and you're out.

judda — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 15:54

oh right so the hadith contradict each other do they?

do u read hadith that tell u what shirk is or do u read hadith that tell u that muhmmad never feared shirk from his ummah?

have u ever compared the teachings of the scholers and thier source of knowledge?

if wahabis were not correct then y did god let us control mecca and madina? and y do we dominate the ummah?

we can't agree on anything innit?

Muhammad will be proud :roll:

there are also too many types of sharia, most which contradict the koran,i did a thread on that, so y did u delete it?

judda — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 16:19

[quote="Admin"]I do not believe in the freedom of speech.

I do not worship graves. If you use that term again, you are out.

If you write anything inflamatory, it will be edited or deleted. And you will be banned.

No more warnings.[/quote]

that was VERY mean Ad

You — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 22:23

There are hadith defining shirk, aswell as hadith saying he did not fear it for his community. I can not see any contradiction.

Just to simplify, I can tell you that a pyton's bite is deadly, and at the same time, I do not think you will ever be bit by one. Is that contradictory?

Wahabbi's dominate saudi as they are in bed with the kingdom. Are the major sect? in saudi maybe (eventhough I doubt it)... but worldwide they are not.

I was not being mean in that PM. I was treating you as an adult.

We do not need to agree on anything.