Taliban-Muslims & Submitters-Kaffirs=???

judda —

I is sick to death of hearing people call Taliban Muslims and the Submitters Kaffirs. Any way what did u like about the bloody Taliban so much that you can even think to call them Muslims? Their black hearts? or maybe there exhilarating lifestyle? I is disgusted! Shame on u revival!

Why do u h8 submitters so much? and what is it with Rashad Khalifa?

Rashad Khalifa was treated as a hero first by the same religious groups that attack him now, when he discovered the Mathematical Miracle of the Quran. The significance of the number 19 is NOT the only miracle in the Koran and Rashad Khalifa does not have the intellectual capacity to discover all the other miracles in the Koran, many others have been discovered too and there are still more to be discovered. http://groups.msn.com/PaKiMuSLiMz/theholyquran.msnw All calculations are done on a computer, I know Islam is a backwards religion but God never prohibited the computer, so u can all check 4 ur self…

When Rashad Khalifa called him self a messenger and told his followers to reject hadith and sunna then he was defamed, attacked, insulted then assassinated

Rashad Khalifa was assassinated in January, 1990. A group of Black Muslims named Fuqara were used by international terrorist forces operating from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The FBI discovered later that the group Fuqara was related to the group that bombed the World Trade Center on September, 11, 2001, they are related to Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden.

The Taliban had the strictest interpretation of Islam and the Submitters have the most lenient interpretation of Islam. The Submitter reject Hadith and Sunna and the Taliban turned their back on the Holy Koran.

And I want a debate about “who is worse” Taliban or Submitters? Or who do YOU think God hates more… and who do YOU hate more….

Coz my beliefs are entwined with Whabism and submission, I is sure u know what I think….

Forum

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 15:23

Yvonne Ridley was held by the Taliban. She was released. She converted to Islam.

-She did not convert whilst being held by the Taliban.

-She did not have a gun held to her head and told to convert or else whilst she was being held.

-She was not persuaded by the Taliban to convert to Islam.

She was released. She then read the Quran off her own accord. Then she converted.

This stuff about Stokholm Syndrome is a load of rubbish. She is no Patty Hurst. She didn't join in with the Taliban and oppress her fellow women or force men to grow big beards.

Dave — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 15:27

[quote="irfghan"]Yvonne Ridley was held by the Taliban. She was released. She converted to Islam.

-She did not convert whilst being held by the Taliban.

-She did not have a gun held to her head and told to convert or else whilst she was being held.

-She was not persuaded by the Taliban to convert to Islam.

She was released. She then read the Quran off her own accord. Then she converted.

This stuff about Stokholm Syndrome is a load of rubbish. She is no Patty Hurst. She didn't join in with the Taliban and oppress her fellow women or force men to grow big beards.[/quote]

You don't have to change ideology whilst in their possession, nor do you have to be enticed to join up. You simply have to be completely in another persons power - as all prisoners are, and be under extreme psychological or emotional distress, which she was.

Like I said, we are never going to know for certain since there most certainly will be no psychological evaluation.

The symptoms are undeniably there as are the conditions though.

judda — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 15:28

[quote="irfghan"][quote="Judda"]Y did she call bakri "a sweet guy"?[/quote]

Where did you read that?[/quote]

sorry that was suppose to say abu hamza not bakri

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 15:50

[quote="Judda"][quote="irfghan"][quote="Judda"]Y did she call bakri "a sweet guy"?[/quote]

Where did you read that?[/quote]

sorry that was suppose to say abu hamza not bakri[/quote]

She was talking about her initial reaction to a phone call from Hamza.

She was not giving us the lowdown on one of Hamza's sermons.

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 15:53

[quote="Constantine"][quote="irfghan"][quote="Judda"]Y did she call bakri "a sweet guy"?[/quote]

Where did you read that?[/quote]

It was Hamza

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3673730.stm

"[i]She now describes radical cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri as "quite sweet really" and says the Taleban have suffered an unfair press.[/i]"[/quote]

That sentence of the BBC article is disingenuous. It takes those three words - quite sweet really - out of the conetx that Yvonne Ridley said them in.

She was not talking about Hamza in his 'totality'. She was just talking about her initial reaction to a phone call from Hamza.

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 15:54

[quote="Judda"]she had sympathy for the taliban and she had no sympathy for the oppressed women[/quote]

Where has she said that she has no sympathy for oppressed women?

judda — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 15:58

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3673730.stm

she said:

[i]"There are oppressed women in Muslim countries, but I can take you up the side streets of Tyneside and show you oppressed women there."[/i]

I am under the impression she somehow thinks this is acceptable because it happens in other places too...

....its like saying 7/7 is no big deal coz 9/11 was worse.....

the woman needs help FAST!

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 16:00

[quote="Constantine"]
You don't have to change ideology whilst in their possession, nor do you have to be enticed to join up. You simply have to be completely in another persons power - as all prisoners are, and be under extreme psychological or emotional distress, which she was.

Like I said, we are never going to know for certain since there most certainly will be no psychological evaluation.

The symptoms are undeniably there as are the conditions though.[/quote]

She had been released. Then she converted.

She was very defiant whilst being held.

Why would she be distressed at being released?

If I get arrested tommorow on trumped up charges I'm not going to convert to secular humanism or whatever on my release after reading The Origin of Species or something.

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 16:02

[quote="Judda"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3673730.stm

she said:

[i]"There are oppressed women in Muslim countries, but I can take you up the side streets of Tyneside and show you oppressed women there."[/i]

I am under the impression she somehow thinks this is acceptable because it happens in other places to...

....its like saying 7/7 is no big deal coz 9/11 was worse.....

the women needs help FAST![/quote]

She was saying there are oppressed women everywhere.

It's no good bombing the Taliban out of power to end oppression of women.

judda — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 16:07

trust me the war was not about women.... that was the last thing the USA were interested in remember?

.....well i was only about 10 years old at the time but if I remember correctly it was about capturing OBL and his supporters.....

the USA and UK don't give a damn about how Afghan women are treated, nobody cares....

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 16:11

[quote="Judda"]trust me the war was not about women.... that was the last thing the USA were interested in remember?

.....well i was only about 10 years old at the time but if I remember correctly it was about capturing OBL and his supporters.....

the USA and UK don't give a damn about how Afghan women are treated, nobody cares....[/quote]

It helped to sell the war, though 9/11 much bigger factor. It helped the pre-9/11 demonisation of Taleban.

Afghan women are still being oppressed, but you don't hear about that anymore. Not now that they've been 'liberated'.

judda — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 16:14

i c ur point, but it was mainly muslims that were against the war, not the rest of our fellow english cityzens....

[quote="irfghan"][quote="Judda"]Hamza should NOT have been flirting with her :!: :evil:[/quote]

He was not flirting. He was offering advice. You're an idiot.[/quote]

I'm an idiot? :roll:

lol he is the last bloody person i wud take advice from!!!!!!

only an idiot wud!!!!

wud u take "advice" from that freak?

well it looks like she's took his advice 😂

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 16:43

[quote="Judda"]i c ur point, but it was mainly muslims that were against the war, not the rest of our fellow english cityzens....

[/quote]

What's your point?

[quote="Judda"]
I'm an idiot? :roll:

lol he is the last bloody person i wud take advice from!!!!!!

only an idiot wud!!!!

wud u take "advice" from that freak?

well it looks like she's took his advice :lol:[/quote]

She was probably getting the same kind of advice from many other people.

I would take advice from Hamza. Depends what he was advising me about.

[quote="Judda"]
well it looks like she's took his advice :lol:[/quote]

What advice are you talking about here?

Dave — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 18:01

See this is my point about why there is never going to be an earnest evaluation of whether she has it or not - it's far too sensitive.

I suggest yall just drop it.

Given the conditions she was held in, and her transformation afterward it's hard to say it wasn't [i]at least[/i] conducive to Stockholm Syndrome.

However it you're at the point where you cannot believe the BBC would put forth a fair observation of the situation or present her comments as she stated them then I think we have crossed the point-break.

This conversation seriously in danger of becomming uncivil.

You — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 18:35

Non of us are psychologists. Nn of us have examined her.

So as dave said, its best to leave it here.

It may have made her more attached to her captors (stokholm syndrome), or it may be she no longer saw them with the media bias.

Beast — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 - 19:00

[quote="Constantine"]
However it you're at the point where you cannot believe the BBC would put forth a fair observation of the situation or present her comments as she stated them then I think we have crossed the point-break.
[/quote]

All media outlets to some degree simplify and sensationalise. I'm not saying anything against the BBC as a whole, but that article is not a good basis on which to judge Yvonne Ridley's psychological state during her conversion.

But I can leave it... probably said all I had to say.

Beast — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 - 16:15

[quote="Judda"]like telling ppl to kill kafirs in muslim countries?[/quote]

I don't think I would be taking advice off anyone about that. That's not something I want to be doing.

I'm sure there's more Abu Hamza than just telling people to kill kafirs in Muslim countries.