This Ramadan, make sure your dates are halaal

You —

Boycott Israeli Dates

The dates are juicy and succulent and full of energy. The perfect way to open the fast. Shop keepers love them - they can charge a premium and people will pay. Better still, the people want them "Last year I did not stock them and people complained. I lost business and this year I am going to stock them. They are our best seller" is the word from their mouths.

It all sounds good, but there is one problem - these dates are like "blood dates" - the equivalent of blood diamonds where we are gorging on the misery of others. They are grown on occupied territory, watered using resources stolen from others.

This is not through some indirect link where money paid to corporations is somehow funnelled through many parties before it ends up in hands that do not please, but a direct link - the dates are grown on stolen Palestinian land and watered with water that has been confiscated from the Palestinians.

By purchasing them you have a direct impact on what happens in the occupied territories.

So, when you next open a fast, do you really want to finish your day by forcing misery upon others? Is that really in the spirit of fasting?

(The ones I had in mind were those big and juicy ones - Branded "King Solomons" or and/or "Jordan Valley".)

Forum
Tags

You — Mon, 31 May 2010 - 18:40

The ones you mention are genrally tunisian I think - they are ok. its the big juicy ones that are from Israel. and maybe a few others too.

But to plan ahead and stop the shops buying them in the first place would be good. We need to organise to stop the shops buying the dates in the first place.

(I think some shops here may have a bad taste from last year when people got toldthat they were from israel and they were still lying in the shops months after ramadan, unbought.)

TPOS — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 - 19:27

[quote=You]new year, new reminder.

I noticed today that my local shop stocks Jordan River Medjoul dates.

Should I have a word with the owner?[/quote]

Might as well.

On a related note when I go to asian shops every now and again I think of how they're selling haraam products (that aren't alcohol) and I wish they didn't. 

You — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 - 00:50

Every little helps.

Right now this is small potatoes compared with the rest of the arab and wider world (and the list of more important issues seems to be getting longer). But this is still an issue.

(besides, I have no idea how to deal with or even have a small impact on Syria/Iraq/ISIS/Egypt/Saudi/Bahrain/Burma/others)

You — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 - 16:11

On the other hand, the events in Israel shouldn't be marginalised either. Israel is more or less waging war since the three teenagers went missing.

It kidnapped atleast an order of magnitude more people from the est Bank and bombed locations and killed Palestinians.

If the teenagers went missing in the West Bank, why did it need to bomb Gaza?

You — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 - 19:47

I thought I had made up the title of this topic - the question about dates being halaal or not.

But today at my local shop they had some Palestinian Zaytoon medjoul dates and they were labeles as halaal.
 

Joie de Vivre — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 - 20:16

I was not proposing anything regarding the current battles. They are very complex and I don't have answers. Israel finds itself working with several Arab neighbours, which are not particularly egalitarian societies, against the threat of ISIS and al Qaeda affiliates, but most immediately pressured to crack down on growing insecurity regarding missile attacks and these kidnappings. I imagine the strategic baance and the message being sent is according to the urgency of a given situation, and agree that "bring back our boys" would likely not on its own present justification for a greater war-footing. It is now the public mood - Israeli citizens I speak with take the line that when there are no attacks against it there is no cause for war but that if they are made unsafe in their borders they will strike out until the threat diminishes; because making nice has never encouraged Hamas or other enemies to do anything but celebrate and up their game; so there is not much patience for liberal politic there and support for the left wing has shrunk; it is not always thus, but it may be time for Hamas to concede that its charter allows no reprieve - anyway politics is not necessarily as simple as a response to the public mood. Maps that show Israel as a large entity and Palestinian areas as but enclaves do not reflect the multifaceted threats to Israel. This is not an expression of support for a given course of action by Israel. I do not know what operations are just in that regard. My larger point is only that it is senseless, convenient and pathetic to single Israel out without tackling longstanding regional disputes and power struggles causing much greater bloodshed and oppression, simply, in all truth, because in Israel's case there are mainly Muslims on one side and mainly non-Muslims on the other.

It would make a very big difference if Muslims around the world were pressuring Hamas for any kind of a roadmap for a peace with Israel. I have seen such measures proposed by Muslim states with whom Israel does have some kind of a rapport in present circumstances, always conditional on Israel first doing this or that, and there is no shortage of liberal Jews who seek to dictate to Israel, and within Israel who stay its hand, but I never heard of a significant Muslim lobby that exerted any serious pressure on its own to take steps for a peace recognising Israel.

You — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 - 01:34

We have to show solidarity with the Palestinians - that is the only just action.

As for peace plans, the Saudi's from 10 years ago was pretty good. Full normalisation of Israel with all arab states. It never got a look in.

On the issue of Israeli residents not being as hawkish when they don't feel at war and feel safe(ish) - that is a one way condition. When they are not in a war like state, it is only them who benefits, not the Palestinians - Gaza remains under siege with the cooperation of the Egyptians and freedom continues to diminish in the West Bank as the semi peaceful moments are when Israeli hawks press forward with creating new situations on the ground through settlement building.

(I do think that Hamas was and would accept peace with israel with the condition that the siege it is held under is lifted.)

I would understand the need for the Israeli residents to be more peaceable when not under threat, but when they don't feel under threat, the Palestinians are not afforded the same luxuries.

Due to its strong hand, Israel does not really need to negotiate - when it feels at peace and not under threat, its hawks can push ahead with their agendas to extend settlements etc. When threatened, Israel is far stronger than everyone surrounding it, friend or foe. I do not expect this to be solved until its too late for Israel, a time when it may become challenged militarity.

With the current breakdown in the middleeast which is resulting in much bloodshed and the shifting of borders and allegiances, a situation might arise when Israel actually has a foe that can fight. But by then it might be too late for peaceful solutions (and it could be decades into the future).

In the interim, dissolving the Palestinian Authority may be a step in the right direction. I'm not too fond of Fatah, and when it is used as just another instrument to control the Palestinian population by Fatah to keep their power, its a part of the problem and not the solution.

Joie de Vivre — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 - 09:54

Your solidarity wasn't in question, I do question your incredible assumption that Hamas is ready to make peace. The Saudi plan wasn't terrible - isn't terrible - but it didn't account for the terrorist players against whom Israel would immediately again be at war, and it did require Israel to quit East Jerusalem without any guarantees as to the position of Hamas. Still it was important and can be developed. All of your points ignore ongoing hostility from Hamas.

Having said which, I was harsh in my previous point. I had a browse on Wikipedia last night and learned a thing or two. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_peace_projects (& even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_supporters_of_Israel). I liked this one: http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/israel-palestine.php as a genuine framework for coexistence. 🙂

Anyway enough about wars and decisions I'm not involved in for one day. Have a good day, hope you're fasting well.