Claiming state benefits in Britain is HARAM.

knightsbridge_… —

I say that the above statement is true because the Quran has stated that we must pay taxes (this is a Jizya because we are a minority living in a majority country). On the other hand, claiming benefits is not stated as being permissible and is not part of the Sharia, likely because it forms part of a secular system which not based on collection/distribution of Zakat. The taxes which we pay (those who do) are used for the schools which our children attend and the hospitals which we use when we are ill. On the other hand, money for the payment of state benefits should be seen as having Riba (usuary) origins because financial services (Banks & insurance co's) generate more tax revenue for the UK government than any other industry in Britain. Therefore, when we are taking money we have not worked for which is exactly the same as taking interest.

We are not "automatically entitled" to any money from this government because in order to receive benefits, we have to apply (requestfully beg) for these hand-outs from non-Muslim administrators. To which the Quran states:'Abdullah Ibn 'Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: The man who always begs will meet Allah with no flesh left on his face.'

Some people will not like what I have said because I am questioning their entitlement Nafs and the very reason they live in this country (do they live here to give dawah or to leach from the state?). The Molvi sahibs and community leaders are shy to bring this topic up because in many cases they depend on hand-outs from the government. Shouldn't these leaders be paid Zakat or financial support from our own Muslim community, instead of having to claim money which they have not paid, or worked for, which has interest origins?

I need your thoughts on these issues, if there is hardly any response then I will assume that my theory is correct and that all Muslim people who claim benefits (like income support or Job Seekers) are taking haram money.

Forum

knightsbridge_… — Fri, 7 Oct 2011 - 22:58

[quote=You]That does not make your proposition any less insane.

You are not following the rules of jurisprudence when coming to your conclusion.[/quote]

This is not a Legal debate per se. But it's still nice to see that you've doing some reading into Philosophy.

TPOS — Sat, 8 Oct 2011 - 07:28

[quote=knightsbridge_brother][quote=You]Halal and haraam are a legal issue, not philosophy.[/quote]

It's only legal in the sense of Sharia. The debate which we are having has a philosophical underpinning.[/quote]
Doesn't make sense

TPOS — Sat, 8 Oct 2011 - 17:34

[quote=knightsbridge_brother]It is quite self explanatory to most individuals. If you still don't understand then you will find out more about Sharia and Islamic Philosophy yourself.[/quote]
You brought it up, you should explain it.

You're discussing if something is halal or not THEREFORE it is discussing shariah law. What makes it philosophy?

knightsbridge_… — Sun, 9 Oct 2011 - 15:14

This debate is philosophical because exploration of such a financial issue has become without cul-de-sac. Individuals such as yourself should try not take refuge in any form of scepticism. The specific branches of Philosophy which we have all used include Ethics and Epistemology. This is all in the context of Sharia which makes our discussion Islamic Philosophy.

knightsbridge_… — Sun, 9 Oct 2011 - 15:54

Well that your opinion, You do not appear to be a Mufti, Molvi or Sheikh, though I do claim to be of such calibre. I have simply presented a case, which I beleive that people should debate (like we already have) and consult with appropriate persons.

Indeed whether you think that individuals of such community/religious power even posses calibre, or whether you percieve them to be merely "Halwa belly" (as put by one contributer her) is another matter.

You — Sun, 9 Oct 2011 - 15:56

[quote=knightsbridge_brother] and consult with appropriate persons.[/quote]

which you have then rejected in their entirety as you have been unable to find anyone who agrees.

though I do claim to be of such calibre

Mashallah brother. Where did you study? Who gave you ijazah?

I dont believe that all arguments and opinions are equal. Some are right, others are wrong.

knightsbridge_… — Sun, 9 Oct 2011 - 17:00

[quote=You][quote=knightsbridge_brother] and consult with appropriate persons.[/quote]

which you have then rejected in their entirety as you have been unable to find anyone who agrees.
[/quote]

I have actually been unable to find a respected individual who agrees with you.

You — Sun, 9 Oct 2011 - 17:08

respected or not, have you found anyone who agrees with you?

I dont really need to find people to agree with me as that is teh default position and I am not trying to turn the question of halaal and haraam into a philosophical discussion.

Foysol89 — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 - 18:01

[quote=knightsbridge_brother]Debating whether something is halal or haram does matter.[/quote]

Firstly that's not what you was debating in the last few comments. Secondly, what's more important is that you try to find out whether something is halal or haram rather than 'debating' about it based on your opinions. Thirdly, i think the issues of halal and haram should be left to people who have vast knowledge on the subject.

Unlike some self proclaimed internet scholars, and others who refer to sheikh google i don't think any of us here have the credentials to decide whether something is haram or halal. After all none of us decide what's halal or haram, for this you have to look at ahadith and the qur'an.

Anyway take care brother and Assalamu alaikum 😃

shazad (not verified) — Tue, 10 Apr 2012 - 23:59

i am about to sighn off may allah have mercy on me i will be broke not even money for food do dua for me brothers ands sisters his right i do feel like i am begging before i was on the right path was a crimnal in a obbsesd state were crb are done for every job its realy hard to find work on top of that no one likes to employ muslims es with beards i am sick of feeling like i am begging i am sick of the way they judge

Hamza13 (not verified) — Sat, 16 Jun 2012 - 00:20

Those needy ones who are wholly wrapped up in the cause of Allah, and who are hindered from moving about the earth in search of their livelihood especially deserve help. He who is unaware of their circumstances supposes them to be wealthy because of their dignified bearing, but you will know them by their countenance, although they do not go about begging of people with importunity. And whatever wealth you will spend on helping them, Allah will know of it. (2:273)

 

besides begging and benefits are two different things.

people on benefits beg for drugs.

benefits are a way of having voters and employees ready to work (building wepons during war for example)

begging is asking individuals for money. getting tax money is accepting you are part of the company(country) and are ready to do a job(vote)

Hamza13 (not verified) — Sat, 16 Jun 2012 - 00:29

[quote=Hamza13]

Those needy ones who are wholly wrapped up in the cause of Allah, and who are hindered from moving about the earth in search of their livelihood especially deserve help. He who is unaware of their circumstances supposes them to be wealthy because of their dignified bearing, but you will know them by their countenance, although they do not go about begging of people with importunity. And whatever wealth you will spend on helping them, Allah will know of it. (2:273)

 

besides begging and benefits are two different things.

people on benefits beg for drugs.

benefits are a way of having voters and employees ready to work (building wepons during war for example)

begging is asking individuals for money. getting tax money is accepting you are part of the company(country) and are ready to do a job(vote)

[/quote]

 

on top my family is not nice like urs to give me a start in life let alone a nice position to make money.

what do you suggest? Jihad? are you not aware of what you are saying? 

if there is land to cultivate i can be self sufficient. in town, in this economic climate im not sure i like what you are lobying for.

 

Hamza13 (not verified) — Sat, 16 Jun 2012 - 00:37

[quote=Hamza13]

[quote=Hamza13]

Those needy ones who are wholly wrapped up in the cause of Allah, and who are hindered from moving about the earth in search of their livelihood especially deserve help. He who is unaware of their circumstances supposes them to be wealthy because of their dignified bearing, but you will know them by their countenance, although they do not go about begging of people with importunity. And whatever wealth you will spend on helping them, Allah will know of it. (2:273)

 

besides begging and benefits are two different things.

people on benefits beg for drugs.

benefits are a way of having voters and employees ready to work (building wepons during war for example)

begging is asking individuals for money. getting tax money is accepting you are part of the company(country) and are ready to do a job(vote)

[/quote]

 

on top my family is not nice like urs to give me a start in life let alone a nice position to make money.

what do you suggest? Jihad? are you not aware of what you are saying? 

if there is land to cultivate i can be self sufficient. in town, in this economic climate im not sure i like what you are lobying for.

 

[/quote]

not to metion that ur wrong.

To which the Quran states:'Abdullah Ibn 'Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: The man who always begs will meet Allah with no flesh left on his face.'

listen to it... the men who always begs. emphasis on always.

so wait... ur saying this goverment has got me to meet Allah with no flesh on my face.

i cant work because of my dissability. i didnt ask to be taken to hospital. i wasnt hurting anyone.

with a mental ilness (so u claim) i now cant work. people wont employ me. 

what am i to do?