Please explain this extremely sexist sounding Hadith.

RI_RS —

So, My very anti theist, especially anti Islamic friend emailed me this hadith and asked what I 'thought' of it and how I reconciled it with modern thought cos it seems impossible, and I can't so can someone else.

Or tell me it's not authentic or something.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Forum

You — Mon, 30 May 2011 - 17:24

I havent seen any explanation that is really convincing, but one has been hinted at in those answers, in that "have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."" is not two phrases, but one - that it is not a blot on womens intelligence in general,but that even those women l;acking in intelligence can have an effect on men.

LookingToSee — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 - 02:03

deficient in religion is self explanatory i believe. but common,who doesnt enjoy the holiday?

deficient in intelligence is more ..complicated... i believe its a matter of "God-created-you-therefore-he-knows-you-better" which is exactly what the propht (pbuh) did: mention the witness thing which i believe is mentionned in the Quran.

I am sure an explanation by a scholar would be MUCH MUCH better. have you thought about referring your friends to like a group of student of knowledge who can pass on or put him in contact with scholars who could answer his questions with much less of the "i think..euh...maybe...if you turn it this way and bend your head that way..." stuff.

RI_RS — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 - 22:47

[quote=Ocean]

A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.

erm that man isn't really a good at being cautious or sensible if he gets swayed by another person/woman so easy...

I don't actually get that Hadith tbh which is why I "ignore" it lol I don't get the last bit to be precise[/quote]

Someone else I know who's Muslim said that cos she's Muslim and a feminist she 'rejects' this hadith, which I found weird.
Are we allowed to just 'reject' sahih hadiths?
Doesnt that go against the whole best of creation thing?

RI_RS — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 - 23:10

[quote=Ocean][quote=MakeMeRawr_8TeenF][quote=Ocean]

A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.

erm that man isn't really a good at being cautious or sensible if he gets swayed by another person/woman so easy...

I don't actually get that Hadith tbh which is why I "ignore" it lol I don't get the last bit to be precise[/quote]

Someone else I know who's Muslim said that cos she's Muslim and a feminist she 'rejects' this hadith, which I found weird.
Are we allowed to just 'reject' sahih hadiths?
Doesnt that go against the whole best of creation thing?[/quote]
I don't reject. I ignore because I don't get what it's trying to say.

there are people who reject parts but that just comes with the morals that they have learnt through life.

Talking about morals there was something interesting I read in my ethics book when i was revising for it. It was something to do with why a person would convert from one religion/faith to another. It's mainly because his/her morals would be on the same wavelength as that of that particular faith. Quite interesting if you think about it.[/quote]

But why could you not JUST take on the ethical framework then?
Like atheists being all for the 10 commandments?

You — Sun, 19 Jun 2011 - 02:07

[quote=MakeMeRawr_8TeenF]Someone else I know who's Muslim said that cos she's Muslim and a feminist she 'rejects' this hadith, which I found weird. [/quote]

That is weird.

What we can question is the meaning and the interpretation of it all.

a potential meaning is that "you should give to the charity/war effort and be wary of God because one of you that is not to clever could still be seductive" or something.

That is hinted at in some of the explanations, but I do not know enough arabic etc to say that that is the case (and I have not even gone through the translated version right now to make sure it fits).

(or on the other hand, quoting your quote, she is willing to reject a hadith because she dislikes it... but then again men are capable of doing that too.)

(does the wording of the hadith imply that women are *more* defective in that sense?)

Foysol89 — Sun, 19 Jun 2011 - 10:05

Wow thanks for putting this hadith on here as i don't think alot of people would understand it and some would just misunderstand it yet still preach it.

I myself wasn't even aware of this hadith and i would be baffled if someone quoted it to me.

Just read Noor' link and that has all the answers you need, it has various answers by various scholars. It's still hard to understand but it cleared my mind of thinking it sounds sexist.

Jazakallah Khairun

You — Sun, 19 Jun 2011 - 20:00

[quote=Lilly]but if you dont get something. its not good to just ignore it. shoudlnt you try and get it?[/quote]

Not always, more often than not there are easy explanations but sometimes some things may be outside your comprehension.

In those cases it is a case of "I believe in God and I trust that this was for the best".

LookingToSee — Sun, 19 Jun 2011 - 22:31

[quote=Ocean]Sometimes ignoring things means that you preventing yourself from QUESTIONING it or you feel it doesn't apply or be inaccurate or shouldn't be taken literally or doesn't really make a difference because there is loads of other stuff that you need to learn, understand and do[/quote]

i like.

RI_RS — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 - 01:51

[quote=Ocean]
This requires a bit of thinking. I don't know people just like to be associated with the majority perhaps? or the one who makes a louder bang? or be part of THAT community and get the attention they look for? or be able to voice their views and agreements etc ?

endless possibilities?

I remember a supply teacher, she used to believe in the good from every religion so she would give charity the Muslim way, worship the Goddess of Love like Hindus and etc etc she even went to Chruch every sunday with her mother... She used to wear long skirts made out of rainbow colours and baggy tops. and she used to wear wild flowers in her hair. She was cool. lol I mean she was unique.[/quote]

Haha she sounds cool, very stereotypically hippy sounding :p

But the other stuff before that is moot in terms of generally talking about people converting for the sake of an ethical framework. Louder bangs and majorities etc don't count if you're only taking morality from a religion

I'm just saying, it's perfectly easy to think that say Shariah has the right idea without having to say 'I believe in the Shariah, therefore I believe in Allah' because you can easily take on the morals without the label and the grouping, and because it's a big leap from thinking someone has the right idea morally or not and suddenly believing there is a deity that exists.

I'm not sure if I have the wrong end of the stick and am talking about something completely random here though xD

RI_RS — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 - 01:56

[quote=Foysol89]Wow thanks for putting this hadith on here as i don't think alot of people would understand it and some would just misunderstand it yet still preach it.

I myself wasn't even aware of this hadith and i would be baffled if someone quoted it to me.

Just read Noor' link and that has all the answers you need, it has various answers by various scholars. It's still hard to understand but it cleared my mind of thinking it sounds sexist.

Jazakallah Khairun[/quote]

You're welcome (:

malik — Fri, 1 Jul 2011 - 19:30

[quote=MakeMeRawr_8TeenF]

Please explain this extremely sexist sounding Hadith.

So, My very anti theist, especially anti Islamic friend emailed me this hadith and asked what I 'thought' of it and how I reconciled it with modern thought cos it seems impossible, and I can't so can someone else.

Or tell me it's not authentic or something.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."[/quote]

Simple explanation.

Shia muslims do not believe this hadith.
We say it is invented. It is fake. Someone made it up to make Prophet (pbuh) look bad.

Enemeies of Islam always tend to do that.

There are many similar false reports written 250 years after
Prophet's death, and these were designed to give Islam a bad image.

The book "Sahih al Bukhari" was written 250 years after Prophet's death.
Many other books were also written very late.
We cannot really trust them completely. They contains lots of false hadith.

Stick with the Holy Quran, the pure and perfect book of Allah.