New improved salaah time tables?

You —

It has come to my attention that some mosques and scholars have bandied together to investigate the current prayer times in the UK and decided that the current ones are wrong.


They have used their "new research" and come out with new salaah time tables.


The timetables have fajr time starting at 1am for this time of year. Which sounds odd to me (almost 4 hours of fajr time?).


Apart from releasing the new time tables which some mosques have adopted there does not seem to be any literature out there of the methodology they have used and how they got to the calculations they did.


Anyone know more?


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Valkyrie — Mon, 6 Jun 2011 - 18:04

Some info an uncle explained to me:


These are the times each salaah is valid to pray at:

Maghrib: from magrib time in timetable to 1:30am

Isha: From one hour after maghrib starts to Fajr in the timetable

Fajr: 1:30am to Sunrise


Only valid from may 15th to July 27 .. Because of position of earth, moon, sun. There are lots of reasons why scholars come up with different answers to the time of prayer ;


Contents:

I. Differences in Fiqh

II. Differences in Astronomy

III. Differences in Outlying Areas


He said there are a bunch of other algorithms that have been

devised.


If you want more info on the contents, I can post it....


Hope it helps.


You — Mon, 6 Jun 2011 - 18:38

1. How can Maghrib and Isha time overlap?

2. What are the actual fiqh resources used to calculate this?


Number 2 is the main one as it is easy to say "oh, it says so on the calendar", I want to know WHY it says so on the calendar.


Apparently loads of differnet mosques have all come out with slightly differing calendars, but there is no writeup or anything explaining why they are slightly different.


Valkyrie — Wed, 8 Jun 2011 - 07:35

Answer to question 2)


1. The position of the Shafi'is and

the strongest position of the Hanafis is that it is

when a white light spreads horizontally across the

horizon.


1a. For sunrise (which is significant because it

marks the end of fajr), it is when the least part of

the sun rises above the horizon. There has been some

concern that some calculation methods use the time

when the sun is mid-disk above the horizon, which is

obviously not what we're after.


2. For dhuhr, the Shafi'is and Hanafis have no qualms about praying a short while after zenith, which is a well-known computation.

(Actually, many prayer calendars list zenith time as

dhuhr, which is not quite accurate. One is not

allowed to pray when the sun is at its zenith, but in

the Shafi'i school, one can pray almost immediately

after this.) The Malikis delay dhuhr quite a bit.


3. For asr, the three schools: Shafi'i, Hanbali, and

Maliki pray when the length of the shadow of an object

is the length of the object plus the length of the

shadow when the sun is at its zenith. The dominant

position of the Hanafis is when the length of the

shadow is twice the length of the object. (I don't

know if the Hanafis require one to add the length of

the shadow at zenith to this.)


4. For maghrib, there really isn't a difference of an

opinion, so long as one is sure the entire disk of the

sun is below the horizon. Some calendars apparently

list sunset as when the sun is mid-disk below the

horizon, which is plainly wrong.


5. Isha in the Shafi'i school is when

red twilight has disappeared. The dominant position

of the Hanafis is that it occurs when *white* twilight

has disappeared. The difference is enormously

significant.


Foysol89 — Thu, 9 Jun 2011 - 20:42

sooo...still no answer as to why fajr is at 1am in my surrounding area? well most of them follow one paerticular opinion, which they do not share with us. :?


MuslimBro — Wed, 15 Jun 2011 - 09:57

For people who are too lazy to click on the above link, I'll paste the main bit here.


For example, here in England, in the summer months (which could begin around mid May till the end part of July) the whiteness in the sky (shafaq al-abyadh) does not disappear at night, and in certain nights the redness also fails to disappear. In such a case what should the ruling be for the respective times of the Eisha and Fajr prayers?


There are four methods in estimating the ending time of Eisha and the beginning time of Fajr:


1) In those certain days where Eisha time fails to appear, the time will be set according to the last day when dawn actually did rise. For example, on the final day where dawn set in was at 1.21, a.m. So throughout the period when there is no apparent beginning time for Fajr, we will set the time at 1.21, a.m. This is known as ‘aqrab al-Ayyam’.


2) The time between sunset and sunrise is divided into two parts. The first half is considered to be night and the second morning, meaning the time for Eisha will end (and the time for Fajr will commence) when the first half comes to an end. This is known as ‘Nisf al-layl’.


3) Aqrab al-bilad. This method is by looking at the nearest place where the time for Eisha does appear and the time is set according to their time. This is known as Aqrab al-Bilad.


4) The last method is where the time between sunset and sunrise is divided into seven parts. The first six parts are considered to be the night (in which you may perform the Eisha prayer) and the final part considered to be the commencement for dawn (Fajr prayer).


Depending on which method you use, fajr could be just after 1am.


You — Wed, 15 Jun 2011 - 18:23

Arent they using the telltale signs of dawn from a different part of the world with a different alttitude and then applying it elsewhere where that description no longer fits?


LookingToSee — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 - 01:55

[quote=You]Arent they using the telltale signs of dawn from a different part of the world with a different alttitude and then applying it elsewhere where that description no longer fits?[/quote]


but thats the best there is. i think.