If Prophet's are alive, explain this please & why it's not insulting.

Sara_M —

UPDATE: I have an answer. We believe he's alive in his grave, and at the time the words were spoken, he wasn't buried. I know for a fact by asking a Shaykh and Mufti that the timing is true [:
Still be glad to hear other people's point of view-as long as it ain't rude/disrespectful.

In a Sahih Hadith in Bukhari, it is narrated:
"Abu Bakr narrated 'Whomsoever worshipped Muhammad, let it be known, Muhammad is dead, and whomsoever worshipped ALLAH, ALLAH is the all-living and alive".

This hadith was narrated by Abu Bakr after the demise of the Prophet (peace be upon him), and Umar (peace upon him) threatened to cut off the heads of anyone who said Muhammad is dead. Abu Bakr then spoke these words aloud in front of all Sihaabah.

We're doing this in Aqeedah lessons at Madrassa. If Abu Bakr said in that hadith, Muhammad is dead, we do not consider it an insult, but if someone else who is not from Ihl-e-Sunnah Wal Jamaah says it, we become offended. Why is this?

We have to find out for homework, and so far, with every suggestion I've come up with, my principal has said it is incorrect. HELP!

And please note; My Principal said the answer is really simple, and if possible, please ensure that it's not related to the worshipped part of the sentence.

Any Shaykh's available who know the answer? Or anyone at all? Please reply in comments.
The timing of the hadith would help. Because if it was said before the burial, we believed he's alive in his grave, right?

Jazakallah,
Sara M

PS: If my Principal actually reads this, because he works for the magazine...then I'm just using my initiative.

Forum

You — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 - 18:16

It is a difference between death and dying.

As an example - martyrs - they die. But we are not to even consider for one second that they are dead.

Everything must taste death, die etc, but then we cannot comprehend the power of God and what He (swt) wills is what happens.

Sara_M — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 - 18:34

So why do we not find the words 'Muhammad is Dead'offensive when they came from the mouth of Abu Bakr peace be upon him? Because if a hard-core Salafi said to us 'Muhammad is Dead, we would take offence or feel hurt at the words spoken?

You — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 - 18:56

Time, space and intention would all matter.

All the martyrs who have died, can you say they are dead now? no? Could you say it when they were felled? yes.

(just for clarification - I don't know if it is insulting, it is not somehting I have read much about, but I would guess that sometimes the context in which it is said and the examples used can be the bigger problem.)

You — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 - 20:58

No idea. I had assumed that people take it literally, but maybe that is where the debate is over... literal or metaphorical.

Dawud — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 - 23:37

Salaam

I don't know the answer Sara, but a few thoughts:

The context was similar to Uhud when the Sihaba were disheartened because they thought that the Prophet SAW had passed away. Many of them RA stopped fighting and Allah sent revelaton afterwards asking the people if they would give up the religion after the Prophet's holy demise SAW.
In the scenario when the Prophet SAW had left this world, again, people were dispairing and probably close to losing faith. Sayyiduna Abu Bakr RA was trying to remind them that the religion had not ended. Allah SWT is eternally alive to be worshipped. He was consoling the believers and moving their focus to Allah SWT.

I think I might have your answer. Sayiduna Umar RA was saying that the Prophet SAW was alive, but had gone to temporarily visit his Lord and so appeared comatose. Sayyiduna Abu Bakr RA was confirming that he SAW had indeed departed his holy body SAW.

Bijou — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 09:58

[quote=Sara_M]So why do we not find the words 'Muhammad is Dead'offensive when they came from the mouth of Abu Bakr peace be upon him? Because if a hard-core Salafi said to us 'Muhammad is Dead, we would take offence or feel hurt at the words spoken?[/quote]

I think we need to take into consideration the context of when Abu Bakr said this pbuh.
Imagine the greatest leader whom people loved with all their hearts, and found him to be the most pious of all leaders passing away...how would they react? They would mourn, for them it would be like there is no reason to live anymore there is no-one for them.

Abu Bakr was merely reminding them that the Prophet although was gone from this world Allah is still with them. This helps the people to get control of their emotions again and reinstates their minds that Allah swt is Forever.

And also 'Muhammad is dead' has been translated to English from then Arabic, there might have been some kind of wording and translating discripency.

Being of Ahle Sunnah I believe the Prophet cannot die- however, physically in this world we are ALL destined to die. That does not mean that when we die thats it, its the end of all things...thats when THE life actually starts...

1R4M — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 11:15

He was saying

that Islam is about worshipping ALLAH
NOT Muhammed (pbuh)
so he's saying
Muhammad was just a man
which is why he died
because all humans must die
whereas
Allah
is eternal

malik — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 20:44

"MOHAMMAD IS DEAD"

Shia muslims say Abu Bakr is not an authority in Islam. Only the Prophet (pbuh) and those who designated as such are. Abu Bakr's words are highly insulting. That is why we dont take him seriously at all.
I am sure that soul of the Prophet (pbuh) had been watching Abu Bakr was it as hurt by his degrading words.

Abu Bakr basically said Prophet is now redundant. He is gone. He is history.
Forget about him. He is no more useless to us. Stick only with Allah. Prophet is DEAD.

I cannot accept this as justifiable at all. It was a totally out of order thing to say by Abu Bakr.

Ofcourse, there is a whole plot and story to hijack Islam behind the words of Abu Bakr and Umar.
Books have been written on why Abu Bakr had actualy said those words. But thats another matter.

Abu Bakr said: "Those who worshipped Muhammad, know that Muhammad is dead, and those who worshipped Allah, know that Allah is alive and eternal"

Now, who among the Sahabas "worshipped" the Prophet, such that Abu Bakr he had to say such critical abusive thing to them? This remark is against Sahaba's honour and it is an insult to the Prophet's memory.

But I think towards the end of his life, Abu Bakr had realised his grave mistake and he repented greatly. He said I wish I wasn't even born.

Sara_M — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 21:40

I'm sorry, but you're saying that the father-in-law, the closest friend and the closest companion of the prophet deliberatelyinsulted him? I think you should go speak to your local Shaykh/Imam.

Bijou — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 21:48

[quote=malik]"MOHAMMAD IS DEAD"

Shia muslims say Abu Bakr is not an authority in Islam. Only the Prophet (pbuh) and those who designated as such are. Abu Bakr's words are highly insulting. That is why we dont take him seriously at all.
I am sure that soul of the Prophet (pbuh) had been watching Abu Bakr was it as hurt by his degrading words.

Abu Bakr basically said Prophet is now redundant. He is gone. He is history.
Forget about him. He is no more useless to us. Stick only with Allah. Prophet is DEAD.

I cannot accept this as justifiable at all. It was a totally out of order thing to say by Abu Bakr.

Ofcourse, there is a whole plot and story to hijack Islam behind the words of Abu Bakr and Umar.
Books have been written on why Abu Bakr had actualy said those words. But thats another matter.

Abu Bakr said: "Those who worshipped Muhammad, know that Muhammad is dead, and those who worshipped Allah, know that Allah is alive and eternal"

Now, who among the Sahabas "worshipped" the Prophet, such that Abu Bakr he had to say such critical abusive thing to them? This remark is against Sahaba's honour and it is an insult to the Prophet's memory.

But I think towards the end of his life, Abu Bakr had realised his grave mistake and he repented greatly. He said I wish I wasn't even born.[/quote]

:roll: Should have guessed you would say something like this.

Sara unless your Shiah, I would advise you NOT to take into consideration this view by malik.

It's WRONG and VERY CRITICAL of the Ahle Bayt and Sahabas. People that do not accept and respect the sahabas as they should be respected then they are wrong and amongst the wrong ones.
If Abu Bakr rdn was not the successor of the Holy Prophet then why did Muhammad ﷺ ask him to lead prayers in his absence? Do you not think there is wisdom behind this action?

Anyway I would rather not get into any kind of conversation which is about the different views or shiah and sunni.

malik — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 - 19:36

Sara, he wasnt as you say the "closest friend" and the "closest companion". These things have been invented to cover up his real crimes. Read it up, unless you are affraid of digging thing up. 😉

Biography of Abu Bakr is available in all languages.

Abu Bakr's actions speak more louder than words.

[quote=Bijou]

It's WRONG and VERY CRITICAL of the Ahle Bayt and Sahabas. People that do not accept and respect the sahabas as they should be respected then they are wrong and amongst the wrong ones.

If Abu Bakr rdn was not the successor of the Holy Prophet then why did Muhammad ﷺ ask him to lead prayers in his absence? Do you not think there is wisdom behind this action?

Anyway I would rather not get into any kind of conversation which is about the different views or shiah and sunni.[/quote]

well, now that you have, i cannot let you run away like Umar ran away from the Battles.

Abu Bakr was not appointed by the Prophet (pbuh) to lead the prayers. No, rather
that was an idea of some other bright spark.

Why did you think Prophet went and removed Abu Bakr and led the prayer himself.
When you appoint someone to lead a prayer, then you would not walk up and
shove them aside and do it yourself.

Prophet's actions should make you think, if you have any brains or love for
this last holy Messenger of God. God bless him and his family.

As for most of the Sahabas, you will find in history that they were often disobedient to the Prophet. Only a few loyal compainions stuck by him in al circumstances.

I have nothing against Sahabas. They have done nothing to me personally. I just dont like people who annoyed the Prophet. Thats because, unlike you, I love him more than other so-called "heros" whose real deeds Satan does not want you to look into.

malik — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 22:07

Saying "Muhammad is DEAD" is to me the most sickening phrase
against the Prophet, God bless him and his family.

TPOS — Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 22:10

[quote=malik]Saying "Muhammad is DEAD" is to me the most sickening phrase
against the Prophet, God bless him and his family.[/quote]
:roll: You're choosing to ignore the context and meaning of that hadith.

TPOS — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 - 20:24

[quote=malik]Why dont you give us the context then? Or do you want me do it.[/quote]
It's already given, if you read previous posts up there ^^