The blurb for the show from the iplayer page:
Investigation which uncovers disturbing evidence that some Muslim children are being exposed to extremist preachers and fundamentalist Islamic groups. We also expose the part-time schools where hate is on the curriculum. The programme asks why school inspectors have missed the warning signs and examines the impact this could have on young Muslims' ability to integrate into mainstream British life.
To me it seems like scaremongering mostly...
The biggest "crime" ucovered by Panorama so far (20 minutes in) seems to be to be anti integration...
... and I don't see that as a problem. Integration may be evil and may be a pathway that is putting many young muslims into a place of fear, uncertainty and doubt, something which may be resulting in an increasing number of Muslims leaving their faith.
EDIT - its now going onto the the weekend schools. The menacing gravelly voice is hard at work:
"... inside the building there were boxes of books... stacked everywhere! ..."
"... our researcher is led to a stall where shelves.. are full... of textbooks ..."
"... he was told his sister will have to study everything..."
(the pointed out contents seem weird though)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
What is wrong with Muslims believing that other religions are false or that only Muslims will go to paradise?
Why do people have an issue with muslims believing that? seems weird.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
But its not only Muslims that believe other religions are false...Jews believe their religion to be correct as do the Hindus and Buddhists, that's why there are different religions in the first place.
I think if Muslims do believe they will be the only ones going to Paradise or they are the right followers etc, for other religions they're merely being arrogant (I'm guessing here).But doesnt everyone think that about their religion?
But again this stuff shows Islam in a negative form. Why dont get they get sunni's up to show what true Islam is about.
Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.
All in all I just found it to be a typical attack on Muslims.
There are some things you can't compromise on like we believe only Muslims will enter paradise and non believers will enter hell, that is our belief.
Not sure what they are looking to gain through this except trying to scare people.
Just because evryone else is wrong it does not make us wrong by default.
(I know tht the overall argument is much more refined than that. But the general gist of it is that Muslims go to Heaven if they be good, others who reject Islam don't and those in between due to one circumstance or other amay or may not go depending on God's grace [which also applies to all those who go to paradise])
At a very minimum Islam provides a framework of righteousness, shows what is considered righteous etc. and shows what a person needs to be a "good person" (wether people use it for that or not is a different question).
But it is weird that some people consider such a thing to be offended about.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
yes it is wierd some people dont even practice any religion and therefore dont have much belief in heaven or hell so yes it is wierd if they find this offensive.
Much to add to this topic!
This program was not just about a religion teaching its members that it is the one true religion, it was about teaching hate to others of different religions. Seeing as the Saudi curriculum is being taught in Multi Cultural UK, young minds will be programmed to think that those strange looking Kuffars they see around town are wicked and to be avoided.
If that is how we teach young children then how long until the next Oldham riots?
This program was not an attack on Muslims but a wake up call for Muslims!
There is a sad old joke that goes like this: "How many Muslims does it take to change a lightbulb? None, they sit in the dark and blame it on the Jews!"
STOP BEING A VICTIM! Despite the terrorists and despite the EDL, BNP etc. Muslims are not treated as second class citizens in this country. We rallied behind Amir Khan, he was "One of our own" as a sports newsman once said.. Some Muslims are out there doing their thing, going to work, having friends far from the same background as themselves. Some sit in self imposed apartheid. This second group of Muslims are prone to feelings of isolation, us vs them attitude and simply creating a victimhood for themselves to wallow in!
All encouraged by this kind of "education".. And to me it is yet more proof that faith based schools are bad for society as a whole and should be abolished sooner than later.
If u belive evryfin u saw on the show your a MUG
Great arguement. You sure showed him :roll:
As a resident of Oldham, I can confirm to you that the oldham riots had nothing to do with religion.
Even though there were tensions between communities, it wasn't even that. It was outside interference and incompetence/malice by the police that was the cause.
Even in the best functioning society if someone from outside comes week in week out trapping the locals in their house, eventually there would be a response and that is what happened - after weeks and months of demonstrations by hooligans, the BNP and others from outside Oldham makinng the town centre a no go zone for local residents, where the local white population would go out of its way to warn you that it was not safe for you there due to outside interference.
Integration is not the issue IMO. Besides, integration is a two way street. Are you willing to change anything in order to accomodate other cultures? Apart from the main meal that is.
As for this programme, IMO is was rotten. It is not that there was nothing wrong with the schools. It was just shoddy journalism, investigation. A person at work who speaks arabic questioned some of the translations used in the episode - I have no idea which ones.
The "big problems" as pointed out in the media in the days before however were only like 30 seconds of the overall investigation.
I am sure there are problems, but they were badly covered or ignored in the show.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Can i just say something... the translation that the guy gave of pigs and monkeys...it wasn't even right. It was something along the lines of 'those who disbeleived were turned into monkeys and pigs', not 'they look like monkeys and pigs'...so there's a BIG difference. Why don't they get there facts right first!?
Thank You!
"That's the thing about pain. It demands to be felt" - Augustus Waters
one of the point i was gona make, they got some random dude to translate somethign and took it for granted and RIGHT after it they get this grand dude that is "greatly respected for his knowledge in tafseer" (i htink it was tafseer) to explain the ayahs
wait whaaaaaat????
ive listened to a bit more than 2 sentences by Haitham alHaddad and he doesnt sound like a "bad guy" also...them 2 sentences we heard...i didnt even understand them...they sound..very...out of context...
(niqaab at 11?)
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
just looked at Metro today
letters on the panorama doc
all 4 or 5 letters in favour of it; yestday had 2 against the programme and 1 in favour
everyone was praising BBC for teh programme, good they exposed these schools, ppl shocked about islams teaching on gays eg throwing em over cliff plus the anti-semitism that was being taught to kids....
mmm...
Can't believe I missed that y'know
My sociology teacher was talking about it and saying they portrayed Islamic Schools as teaching obscene things! If I had watched it I could have retaliated Gah! :/
iplayer
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Yeah lol I was gonna watch it on that but is there any point now? :/
Actually I might do that now InshaAllah
Oh another thing...Theres going to be an event held place in response to this programme;
''Date: Saturday 27th November 2010
Time: 7.00pm
Venue; Al-Ansar Islamic Education Centre
833-835 High Road, Goodmayes IG3 8TD''
There will also be a live stream on their website ''www.masjidansar.com''
I dont know if this has already been mentioned on this thread as I have not read all the comments :/
Indigo Jo discusses the Documentary in quite a lot of detail.
The Akh exposes John Ware, "The Policy Exchange" and Michael Gove and their links along with what happened the last tiem they had a "hard hitting investigation" where they made up BS against Interpal including forged evidence.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
lmao!
"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"
I personally dont understand why people get so worked up about integration and implying that muslims are unable to do so. I am a muslim and ive been living in europe for the majority of my life and I do exactly the same things that my non-muslim peers do (not any haram stuff), am multi-lingual and am living life to 'the full' as they say. so I dont understand where this 'muslims dnt knw or refuse to integrate into society' comes from.... :?
"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"
This programme was ridiculous
they BRIEFLY mentioned there was a christian school preaching hate
and a jewish one which was heavily segregated
but
no
lets focus on Islamic schools
Its mostly South Asians that are guilty of this
they stay in their won communities and dont mix with anyone else
the youngsters will do
but
to an extent
I don't think that's true, other ethnic minorities keep themselves to themselves too - take Chinese people for example.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
I meant in terms of Muslims
but yea
chinese people deffo are segregated
but again
like I mentioned
everyone only wants to target Muslims
Should've said Somalians instead of Chinese then
Wht, u think somalians keep themselves to themselves????
in any case, thats not even a problem, what u do in ur own time is upto u anyways...but how much do you expect a person to integrate??? can u ever be integrated too much???
"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"
Yes, I don't see Somalians, esp the older generation talking to others. The younger generation, like with all nationalities are more likely to integrate and what not. Just what I've seen. But it seems you have a different opinion. Are you a Somalian?
I can see why integration would be a problem. At the end of the day people are coming into this country they should atleast bother to talk to people around them. I mean just to be friendly at the least. I don't think you can integrate "too much".
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Yes, I don't see Somalians, esp the older generation talking to others. The younger generation, like with all nationalities are more likely to integrate and what not. Just what I've seen. But it seems you have a different opinion. Are you a Somalian?
I can see why integration would be a problem. At the end of the day people are coming into this country they should atleast bother to talk to people around them. I mean just to be friendly at the least. Then theres the problem of not being able to speak the language...
I don't think you can integrate "too much".[/quote]
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
But what do u mean talking to others???
you expect people to just randomly approach strangers and talk about affairs of the world??? cos if thats the case, I dont see anyone from any ethnic background do that!!
does that mean that ur not integrated???
"Verily, in the remembrance of Allah, do hearts find rest"
Do you seriously think I'm suggesting that?
lol no I don't mean going upto randomers and talking about them like you've known them forever.
But making new friends, socialising with others etc.
Actually thinking about it you could even talk to new people about stuff. Say you're waiting in a looong queue you could easily strike a conversation with the person in front or behind you. I've seen people do that and similar things. Doesn't happen much with young people though. Which may be a shame, or maybe not.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
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