Homosexuality...Umm... Is it really that big a deal?

[quote=You]

(@MuslimBro, while you learn it would be good if you can also merge that with keeping it real. a new breed of scholar is needed and you can be the first of the new mutant batch.)[/quote]

What do you mean by that?

[quote=MuslimBro][quote=s.b.f]I meant in a conversation.[/quote]
I've heard it many times in bayans. But guess not in conversations.[/quote]

Oh, Gosh, you should hear my Father then.
He uses at least 50 of Ilah's blessed names everyday.

whats the punishment for Homosexuality? wait do i even need to know that? Allah (subhanahou wata'ala) destroyed a WHOLE nation because of JUST that sin, how can you say its a 62.51% sin?

i think, like You said, you should stay away.

and common Isha! God created humans gay?! dyou really believe that?! so you believe in the Gay Gene too? like, we're born with that gene and "cant help it" i swear the research was discredited?

Also S.b.f, when you know the meaning of the name of Allah (maybe because you fluently speak arabic) then you might use more specific ones to fit the convo. Al-Khaliq= the creator, and she was talking about ALlah (subhanahou wata'ala) creating humans, hence.

and in my first sentence, i could have used the name "the destroyer" but i cant remember what it is.

[quote=Lilly]and in my first sentence, i could have used the name "the destroyer" but i cant remember what it is.[/quote]
'The Destroyer'?

[quote=s.b.f][quote=You]

(@MuslimBro, while you learn it would be good if you can also merge that with keeping it real. a new breed of scholar is needed and you can be the first of the new mutant batch.)[/quote]

What do you mean by that?[/quote]

Sully, did you say this in THIS topic or am i going crazy?

[quote=Lilly]whats the punishment for Homosexuality? wait do i even need to know that? Allah (subhanahou wata'ala) destroyed a WHOLE nation because of JUST that sin, how can you say its a 62.51% sin?

i think, like You said, you should stay away.

and common Isha! God created humans gay?! dyou really believe that?! so you believe in the Gay Gene too? like, we're born with that gene and "cant help it" i swear the research was discredited?[/quote]
No, he gave that...feeling?
I don't know. It's my own thing. Not research, what I believe to be true. It may not be....

[quote=Lilly]
Also S.b.f, when you know the meaning of the name of Allah (maybe because you fluently speak arabic) then you might use more specific ones to fit the convo. Al-Khaliq= the creator, and she was talking about ALlah (subhanahou wata'ala) creating humans, hence.

and in my first sentence, i could have used the name "the destroyer" but i cant remember what it is.[/quote]
Al-Mumi'it.

[quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=Lilly]whats the punishment for Homosexuality? wait do i even need to know that? Allah (subhanahou wata'ala) destroyed a WHOLE nation because of JUST that sin, how can you say its a 62.51% sin?

i think, like You said, you should stay away.

and common Isha! God created humans gay?! dyou really believe that?! so you believe in the Gay Gene too? like, we're born with that gene and "cant help it" i swear the research was discredited?[/quote]
No, he gave that...feeling?
I don't know. It's my own thing. Not research, what I believe to be true. It may not be....

[quote=Lilly]
Also S.b.f, when you know the meaning of the name of Allah (maybe because you fluently speak arabic) then you might use more specific ones to fit the convo. Al-Khaliq= the creator, and she was talking about ALlah (subhanahou wata'ala) creating humans, hence.

and in my first sentence, i could have used the name "the destroyer" but i cant remember what it is.[/quote]
Al-Mumi'it.[/quote]

which doesn not mean destroyer but GIVER OF DEATH or something along these lines. SOrry MuslimBro, thanks for making me realise my mistake.

and like You said, Allah (subhanahou wata'ala) gave passion and desire. not the "gay feeling" im thinking its because of the "socially acceptable" and the "corruptness" of society that people end up putting their feelings onto..well..same sex.
its a case of "if you didnt know it existed then you wouldnt need it"

[quote=Isha Al-Maghribi]Al-Mumi'it.[/quote]
Doesn't that refer to the taking of life, rather than being the destroyer?

[/quote=Lilly)

which doesn not mean destroyer but GIVER OF DEATH or something along these lines..[/quote]

Al-Muntaqim,

muntaqim= avenger

[quote=MuslimBro][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi]Al-Mumi'it.[/quote]
Doesn't that refer to the taking of life, rather than being the destroyer?[/quote]

Al-Muntaqim might be better there.
But, Al-Mumit fits in for me as well.

@Lilly - do you use any Arabic dictionaries?

This argues that way back when, homosexuals were acknowledged as valuable assets to society and were not classified as men. Therefore the laws against homosexuality do not apply to exclusive homosexuals. The writer is a convert to Islam.

However, as a minority, gays differ by nature from the majority -- not in our attraction to the same sex, but only in our physical lack of response to the opposite sex. Being naturally impotent for procreative sex, innately gay men were referred to in the ancient world as "born eunuchs" or just "eunuchs." Meanwhile, women who innately lacked response to men were seen as a particular kind of "virgins."

It is tenuous.

Here is the more familiar view, that Islam and homosexuality are in conflict. The writer is a gay who has renounced Islam.

And here is where most of you stand, with some relevant quotations from the Quran.

We know that this life is a test. Everyone of us has his/her own test. For example someone may be born blind, but that person is expected to live his/her life according to God's law. Others are born poor, short, tall, weak, missing fingers, having big nose...etc but all of them are expected to follow God's law. Some men or women may never marry in their life, or spend part of their life without a spouse. As per the Quran they still have to live a chaste life and avoid any sexual contacts outside a marriage. They have to suppress their sexual feelings to follow God's law. It is a major test and not an easy one for many. Only those who submit to God will do everything they can to follow His law. They know that their salvation and eternal happiness rests in doing so.

Either way you should be decent to people and not eschew those who deny your view on religion any more than they should eschew you. I think Isha's friendship is a positive thing and accepting a friend's choices is a positive thing.

Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith and drive you out of your homes and support (others) in driving you out from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances) that do wrong. - Holy Quran 60:8-9

[quote=Joie de Vivre]This argues that way back when, homosexuals were acknowledged as valuable assets to society and were not classified as men. Therefore the laws against homosexuality do not apply to exclusive homosexuals. The writer is a convert to Islam.

However, as a minority, gays differ by nature from the majority -- not in our attraction to the same sex, but only in our physical lack of response to the opposite sex. Being naturally impotent for procreative sex, innately gay men were referred to in the ancient world as "born eunuchs" or just "eunuchs." Meanwhile, women who innately lacked response to men were seen as a particular kind of "virgins."

It is tenuous.

Here is the more familiar view, that Islam and homosexuality are in conflict. The writer is a gay who has renounced Islam.

And here is where most of you stand, with some relevant quotations from the Quran.

We know that this life is a test. Everyone of us has his/her own test. For example someone may be born blind, but that person is expected to live his/her life according to God's law. Others are born poor, short, tall, weak, missing fingers, having big nose...etc but all of them are expected to follow God's law. Some men or women may never marry in their life, or spend part of their life without a spouse. As per the Quran they still have to live a chaste life and avoid any sexual contacts outside a marriage. They have to suppress their sexual feelings to follow God's law. It is a major test and not an easy one for many. Only those who submit to God will do everything they can to follow His law. They know that their salvation and eternal happiness rests in doing so.

Either way you should be decent to people and not eschew those who deny your view on religion any more than they should eschew you. I think Isha's friendship is a positive thing and accepting a friend's choices is a positive thing.

Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith and drive you out of your homes and support (others) in driving you out from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances) that do wrong. - Holy Quran 60:8-9

[/quote]

Tashkor for the links and Tashkor for your advice!" 🙂

Afwan cuz. I want to make sure you know I'm Jewish, and when I browse and comment on Islam it is to try and help, but not that I'm an Islamic scholar, because everyone else knows that.

@Isha - have you compared and contrasted your responce to this guy Vs the other friends of yours who you found out having band company?

Why is this situation different?

Besides, there is no way in the world the guy is being innocent if he is trying to get you to set him up with your dad. Just think about how wrong this last one is. He is not using you as a simple ear to his problems.

(@ Lilly - was that community destroyed for homosexuality or for rape? WHen the angels came in the guise of young men, they did not offer them a drink etc, but smashed down the gates in order to get access to them.)

[quote=You]
(@ Lilly - was that community destroyed for homosexuality or for rape? WHen the angels came in the guise of young men, they did not offer them a drink etc, but smashed down the gates in order to get access to them.)[/quote]

maybe for neither, but im pretty sure its because they commited that particular act; it wouldnt make sense if they "raped" the angels, because...werent the angels there to warn Lut to get out because they were gona get punished? so the decision was already made.

[quote=Ocean]http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/31/stephen-fry-sex-women-relat…]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/31/stephen-fry-twitter-newspap…

[quote=Lilly][quote=You]
(@ Lilly - was that community destroyed for homosexuality or for rape? WHen the angels came in the guise of young men, they did not offer them a drink etc, but smashed down the gates in order to get access to them.)[/quote]

maybe for neither, but im pretty sure its because they commited that particular act; it wouldnt make sense if they "raped" the angels, because...werent the angels there to warn Lut to get out because they were gona get punished? so the decision was already made.[/quote]

No, they were sent to destroy the town and as a final test from what I read. I think.

final test for who?
and why were they sent to destroy it? (i didnt say they werent)

Which view of his do you think was more correct?

I agree with whats been said

but i still wanted to say a sin is a sin, you can't put a percentage on it! it's either a sin or it isn't.
[quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=You]Sounds conniving and devious.

Tell him to keep away and you keep away from him too.[/quote]

I *can not* possibly do that! He's a very good friend of mine.[/quote]
He may be "good", in the sense that you get on well with him, he's good to talk or whatever but if you're compromising your beliefs/changing your beliefs, thinking something is "alright" when its clearly sinful because of someone else it may not be a great friendship for you...

[quote=Joie de Vivre]Afwan cuz. I want to make sure you know I'm Jewish, and when I browse and comment on Islam it is to try and help, but not that I'm an Islamic scholar, because everyone else knows that.[/quote]

Ok, good stuff. And nice to meet you.

[quote=You](@ Lilly - was that community destroyed for homosexuality or for rape? WHen the angels came in the guise of young men, they did not offer them a drink etc, but smashed down the gates in order to get access to them.)[/quote]

The prophet Lut was sent to a group of people who were infamous for their depraved behavior. The men of the community were known for having sex with other men. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Arabic can tell that these verses are talking about men who engaged in consensual sex with other men, eschewing the women who were created for them. Rape is simply not an issue. To suggest that the angels were raped is completely false. The angels were under Allah's divine protection. In fact, when prophet Lut expressed his fear that he couldn't protect his guests from the depraved men of his community, the guests responded that they were angels in disguise and that no harm would befall them. Allah Most High says, "And when Our Messengers came to Lut, he was grieved on their account, and felt himself powerless (to protect) them: but they said: Fear thou not, nor grieve: we are (here) to save thee and thy following, except thy wife: she is of those who lag behind." (Al-Ankabut, 29:33).

Link

[quote=You]@Isha - have you compared and contrasted your responce to this guy Vs the other friends of yours who you found out having band company?

Why is this situation different?

Besides, there is no way in the world the guy is being innocent if he is trying to get you to set him up with your dad. Just think about how wrong this last one is. He is not using you as a simple ear to his problems.
[/quote]

The bold is the only bit I understand. Explain the rest please.

Compared and contrasted what response? I haven't told anyone about Liam, the only time I have mentioned it is on this forum.

SunniPath is actually pretty awesome.

[quote=Ocean]http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/31/stephen-fry-sex-women-relat…]

?

[quote=MuslimBro][quote=You](@ Lilly - was that community destroyed for homosexuality or for rape? WHen the angels came in the guise of young men, they did not offer them a drink etc, but smashed down the gates in order to get access to them.)[/quote]

The prophet Lut was sent to a group of people who were infamous for their depraved behavior. The men of the community were known for having sex with other men. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Arabic can tell that these verses are talking about men who engaged in consensual sex with other men, eschewing the women who were created for them. Rape is simply not an issue. To suggest that the angels were raped is completely false. The angels were under Allah's divine protection. In fact, when prophet Lut expressed his fear that he couldn't protect his guests from the depraved men of his community, the guests responded that they were angels in disguise and that no harm would befall them. Allah Most High says, "And when Our Messengers came to Lut, he was grieved on their account, and felt himself powerless (to protect) them: but they said: Fear thou not, nor grieve: we are (here) to save thee and thy following, except thy wife: she is of those who lag behind." (Al-Ankabut, 29:33).

Link

[/quote]

😃 (Y)

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]I agree with whats been said

but i still wanted to say a sin is a sin, you can't put a percentage on it! it's either a sin or it isn't.
[quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=You]Sounds conniving and devious.

Tell him to keep away and you keep away from him too.[/quote]

I *can not* possibly do that! He's a very good friend of mine.[/quote]
He may be "good", in the sense that you get on well with him, he's good to talk or whatever but if you're compromising your beliefs/changing your beliefs, thinking something is "alright" when its clearly sinful because of someone else it may not be a great friendship for you...[/quote]

I really understand what you and You are saying, but I'm just wondering is it acceptable in some cases?
I know our Deen isn't all that lenient, but is it acceptable under certain circumstances?

[quote=Isha Al-Maghribi]
I know our Deen isn't all that lenient, but is it acceptable under certain circumstances?[/quote]
Your friendship or being gay?

Neither is allowed imo/afaik