Yes, lets give the people seeking attention the attention they want so that they do it again...

You wrote:

Yes, lets give the people seeking attention the attention they want so that they do it again...

Lets go burn effigy's and waste our time! 10000 strong march for a little man in some rural backward south US village.

Some Muslim's are 'tapped', for the lack of a better word.

You're not supposed to be agreeing with Mr You! You're meant to tell him to shut up!

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

You're not supposed to be agreeing with Mr You! You're meant to tell him to shut up!

I know but he sometimes writes what he thinks I will agree with to better his standing with the people of the revival. He's sneaky like that.

LOL

Too late.. The burning effigies have already been broadcast around the world

So now, I am just waiting for the Imam or other religious leader to issue a fatwa calling for his death (and turning a small town US pastor into a hero of the right and perhaps super rich in the process).

you shud let barking dogs bark ¬_¬

Vocalist wrote:

Too late.. The burning effigies have already been broadcast around the world

So now, I am just waiting for the Imam or other religious leader to issue a fatwa calling for his death (and turning a small town US pastor into a hero of the right and perhaps super rich in the process).

Well the fatwa (if issued) will be incorrect. Muslims have strict set of ways to dispose of copies of the Noble Quran and fortunately for us, burning is one of them!

He who laughs last!

YouShutup wrote:

Vocalist wrote:

Too late.. The burning effigies have already been broadcast around the world

So now, I am just waiting for the Imam or other religious leader to issue a fatwa calling for his death (and turning a small town US pastor into a hero of the right and perhaps super rich in the process).

Well the fatwa (if issued) will be incorrect. Muslims have strict set of ways to dispose of copies of the Noble Quran and fortunately for us, burning is one of them!

He who laughs last!

But of course it is OK to burn effigies, bibles and any particular flags that take your fancy.

Get a grip, develop a sense of perspective and stop thinking the world revolves around you.

There is a reason why the west hates Islam. Turn your TV on and find out why.

In other news, security contractors at a US base in Afghanistan shot dead three protesters...

...and its the "west" that has to be pandered to.

Seems like the "The west" that hates Islam needs its dummy. The "other west" that doesn't hate Islam however is fine and dandy.

"How dare Moslems get offended when someone tries to offend them!"

Ocean wrote:

I would have loved to see what Muslims all round world could ahve done

You need to watch the news.

The Afghanistan war has been lost proper style now, with street protests the size of some that I have never seen before associated with Afghanistan.

It is I think typical of the tenets of Islam that you require respect and tolerance from non Muslims for your beliefs and feelings, but show no respect or tolerance yourselves for non Muslims.

Indeed, the book-burning is a REACTION to the lack of respect and breathtaking insensitivity, intolerance and arrogance of members of your religion being shown to the victims of the terrorist attacks in NY in planning to build the Islamic centre.

Let's get some balance here. The Florida pastor is a lunatic, but so are the people behind the construction of the Islamic centre – why don’t you condemn them?

Both have the legal rights to do what they propose to do, neither is “right” to exercise their legal rights.

I truly despair.

Indeed, the book-burning is a REACTION to the lack of respect and breathtaking insensitivity, intolerance and arrogance of members of your religion being shown to the victims of the terrorist attacks in NY in planning to build the Islamic centre.

Actually, it had nothing to do with that.

Besides, the same right wing press which is attacking the centre now was just a few months ago praising that very centre for being a model for integration and sensitivity. You only have to go back to May to see Fox News praising it.

Generally, do you think Muslims around the world lack respect for other religious groups?

its not an ISLAMIC center, its a CULTURAL center. MASSIVE difference.

@sbf, i dont think we do.

sbf

No. Like all religions, most individual Muslims are I believe moderate and accommodating.

But it has far too many religious leaders, spokespersons, governments and general nutcases who show no respect and in fact encourage lack of respect of other faiths and cultures actively or passively.

Lilly

It's an Islamic Cultural Center. You're playing at semantics.

roger wrote:

Lilly

It's an Islamic Cultural Center. You're playing at semantics.

literally JUST read the article that mentionned the "Islamic" in front of cultural center. I apologize.

Just one question: Whats the difference?

I think America is being insensitive by creating situations aroud there world that make it rife for lives to be lost - thinking Iraq and Afghanistan here.

I think all Americans should apologise and be more sensitive to the effects of the deaths of others. (Maybe the brits and other coalition countries should do that too?)

Maybe if Americans didn't visit those two places, like ever, maybe those people could move on?

Afterall we all agree that mass murder is deeply insensitive.

On the other hand, a more sensible approach would be that those who feel "offended" (in quotations as I suspect very few of them really are and for others its a political bandwaggon) could realise the difference between things. Here's a thought - the twin towers were NOT blown up by the people building the Islamic Cultural Centre/Mosque.

Here's another - there are other mosque "controversies" in the US too - murfreesborough or whatever it is called comes to mind where there have been acts of vandalism against machinery at the site to build a new mosque, being built since the old on is too small to fit everyone in. However, the opponents think the old one is big enough...

So lets not pretend that this has anything at all to do with sensitivities. Besides, the victims families have not been unanimously against this centre and there is a mosque at ground zero, that was there from before the trade towers were even built.

Lilly wrote:

roger wrote:

Lilly

It's an Islamic Cultural Center. You're playing at semantics.

literally JUST read the article that mentionned the "Islamic" in front of cultural center. I apologize.

Just one question: Whats the difference?

I think the clue is in the inclusion of the word "Islamic"?

It's not a Pakistani Cultural Center, or a Saudi Cultural Center, it's an Islamic cultural Center, which also will include a mosque, so it is intimately connected in many people's eyes (rightly or wrongly) with the religion which the 9/11 perpetrators followed, and in whose name they committed the hijackings and crashes, even if their interpretation of Islam was an extreme form that has no support amongst the general Muslim faithful.

And that is why it is insensitive to propose this: even if many people in NYC support it, some do not (including many families of the victims) and regard should be had to their opinions and feelings.

btw, @ Roger - welcome to our humble abode.

Most people on here will not bite.

as for the issue of "they demand respect but do not give it", muslims are not allowed to attack religious symbols/gods of other religions, with the idea being to not get into a tit for tat.

You will notice that from a global community of 1.5 billion people, no one has suggested to burn the bible (more, we also accept it in its original form to have been sent by God).

At the same time, any reaction to the publication of the cartoons insulting the prophet were more or less limited to protests or boycotting of goods - no religious symbols were attacked.

Now that is where you see a level of respect even in situations where the people are extremely angry.

So, I don't buy the whole "they demand respect but they dont give it" idea and I think it is a false notion.

You wrote:

btw, @ Roger - welcome to our humble abode.

Most people on here will not bite.

as for the issue of "they demand respect but do not give it", muslims are not allowed to attack religious symbols/gods of other religions, with the idea being to not get into a tit for tat.

You will notice that from a global community of 1.5 billion people, no one has suggested to burn the bible (more, we also accept it in its original form to have been sent by God).

At the same time, any reaction to the publication of the cartoons insulting the prophet were more or less limited to protests or boycotting of goods - no religious symbols were attacked.

Now that is where you see a level of respect even in situations where the people are extremely angry.

So, I don't buy the whole "they demand respect but they dont give it" idea and I think it is a false notion.

From a lapsed Church of Scotland Christian, I thank you for the welcome you!

I'm genuinely not trying to be provocative, or get people to bite, just tryin' to understand some things. Thanks for engaging with me. I respect your belief (although not all interpretations made by some Muslims of what Islam requires people to do), I hope you have the humility and sense to accept that others have different beliefs.

I deplore burning religious books, or any books. But, in retort to your statement that Islam respects the symbols of other religions: which religion were the Taliban following when they committed the insane act of vandalism by destroying the Buddhas in Afghanistan?

oh yes, I had forgotten about that - good point.

(There is also the issue in Malaysia where some Muslims are trying to gain legal exclusivity over the name Allah... which is stupid.)

Iran President says Jews were behind last months plan to burn Koran.
They did this inorder to demonise muslims.
Israeli is desperate to survive and it knows its time is up.
Countdown to its destructions has already begun in 2006 with defeat against Hizbollah in Lebanon. It was first time Israel was crushed by an Arab force.
Now, Israel is running for its life. Jews are trying to use media which they controls to make a new war to take down Iran's Islamic Revolution.

Ahmadinejad: Koran burning Zionist plot

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3952336,00.html

10 September 2010

Ahmadinejad: Koran burning will bring about Israel's annihilation

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Friday condemned plans by a Florida pastor to burn copies of the Koran, saying that it was a Zionist plot that would bring about Israel's annihilation, Iran's Press TV reported.
Speaking at a meeting between Iran's supreme religious leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and senior Iranian officials in Tehran, Ahmadinejad said that "the Zionists and their supporters are on the path to collapse and decline and such desperate actions will not save them, but will accelerate their fall and annihilation."

The Iranian president added that burning the Koran would be a violation of the teachings of all religions.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/ahmadinejad-koran-burning-will...

US not at war with Islam: Obama

US President Barack Obama has made use of the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks to give an assurance that America will never be at war with Islam.

President Obama made an effort to address the issue of anti-Muslim sentiments across the United States on Saturday, urging Americans not to give into "hatred and prejudice."

"As Americans we are not and never will be at war with Islam. It was not a religion that attacked us that September day. It was al-Qaeda.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/142138.html

US media pushing for a war on Iran

US media outlets biased in favor of Israel are creating a Christian-Zionist community which is demonizing Islam and pushing for a war against Iran, Israeli lobby critic James Morris says.

“The pro-Israeli biased media focuses on anything that is anti-Islamic,” Morris told Press TV.

Anti-Islam sentiment is disturbingly on the rise in the West and is satisfying some bigger political agenda, Morris noted.

He quoted US Congressman Ron Paul as saying, “The neo-conservatives… are trying to set the stage for a war with Iran and what better way to do that than demonize the Muslim population internationally.”

Morris stated that the current commander of US and US-led troops in Afghanistan, General David Petraeus, has "courageously said that the Israel-Palestinian conflict was fuelling anti-American sentiments in the Arab-Muslim world and was putting our troops in danger, not only in Afghanistan but in Iraq as well.”

Morris noted that US media outlets are not giving this story proper coverage due to the "obvious pro-Israel bias with that media that is also out to demonize Islam when it can."

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/142037.html

Iranian president in chatting rubbish shocker?

It needs more than him to say something for it to become fact.

(I love the idea of using the word "crushed" in the context you did - Israel may not have met its objectives, but it was anything but crushed - look at how much distruction it wrought on Lebanon compared with how little it was hurt and how few consequences it had to face.)

Malik, I see you are reading to paranoid ramblings of idiots again as fact, never mind..

Welcome Roger, I too am a bit of a provocoteur in these parts Although as the many readers will attest I am far from a bigoted EDL/Right Wing/Pastor Jones type person who seems to have some deep seated hatred of Islam. I actually like Islam (up to a point) and could list the many things I think I prefer of Islam than the secular world we live in.

Though I am still a secularist and argue that both sides could learn a lot from each other!

However, I also take offence at a lot of things called for in the name of Islam, particularly when it infringes on freedom of speech. So, despite my disdain for this pastor I was not against him actually burning a qur'an (I own a copy and if I want to burn it - that is my business, though it would be a waste of a good source of reference material). After all, US and British flags are burnt almost weekly by various Muslim groups round the world.

My thing is this... Burn a copy of Darwin's Origin of Species and you would be met by a few grumblings from academia and perhaps a few Atheists might not be too happy. Burn a copy of the Bible and a few Bishops might denounce it as an act of hatred and a few grumbles from small and limited sectors of society.. But burn a copy of the Qur'an and the Islamic world goes up in flames and ransacks their own cities, causing fearfull soldiers to shoot into the crowd :roll:

And now the EDL have come out and said that they neither denounce or advocate burning a Qur'an! (in other words, go ahead)

Congratulations my Muslim friends.. Like the Danish cartoons resulted in a mass onslaught of Internet copies, this recent outrage is going to result in countless copies of the Qur'an getting burnt. And well in time for Guy Falkes night too!

And this might be the first of many....
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OClIeQtMaoU]

I doubt anyone would hold Darwins works as religious material. No academica, no athiests, no one.

There is a difference there.

(and I would suggest there is the concept of the militant athiest. Or even the elitist athiest. Often enough you will find athiests look down upon people, who otherwise they find perfectly agreeable, simply because they believe in God.)

As for the Christian case, I would say that that is a fault in the system there. When Elton John insulted Prophet Isa/Jesus (as), where were the christians speaking against him? In the end there was a reaction, but it was from Muslims where concerts were cancelled in some locations (but unfortunately not others).

Where was Pastor Jones when hie religion needed him? missing in action.

(I am not going to watch that youtube video as it may infuriate me. At the same time, the protection of the qur'an is a task that is God's to take, not mine. It is mentioned in the qur'an that the duty to protect the qur'an has beent aken out of human hands.)

Sure, Darwins work is not regarded as Religious. an atheist (and boy do I hate that word) has no real reason to object to anyone burning any science book, but they might raise an eyebrow. But it is not a good thing that Muslims hold the Qur'an in some high esteem that makes it seem above all other books.

Now there will be hundreds of Qur'ans burnt before the end of this year and I will guarantee the video evidence will be up on YouTube. Because no Christian takes the position that they can threaten anyone who insults their religion, there will not be any bible burning - what would be the point?

Vocalist wrote:

But it is not a good thing that Muslims hold the Qur'an in some high esteem that makes it seem above all other books.

I would disagree.

While many scholars have argued that any and all books must be respected, and that anything that cna be used to write on also is to be respected too, I would still say that the qur'an is special as the word of God.

Ofcourse since you do not accept that, you will not agree, nor find it as special.
That is your prerogative.

as for the idea "there will be more burnings as the muslims responded in a negative manner" - potentially, but at the same time, the vast majority took a wait and see approach. It was only in afghanistan - a warzone that is being occupied by British and American forces among others - where there was a big reaction and that would be related to the politics of occupation. They lost the hearts and the minds. They need to get out of there.

I would also argue that it is the same people who were most likely to burn it who are now wanting to burn it, so it really has not made a difference.