great. I had thought this topic could be salvaged. Since this is well and truly derailed, I guess there is less harm in discussing anonyoums1's post.

Anonymous1 wrote:

//yes, and moderation is key.//

You had mentioned the term moderation - my comment responded to it... Maybe you too should keep comments to the subject if that's what you ask of others?

Context matters. The post you decided to jump on was in response to:

Ya'qub wrote:

You wrote:

Going back to the original topic, if things are taken to a level too far, it can be harmful.

Yeah but isn't the same about everything? Everything can be done in excess.

Which was talking about people taking football too seriously and becoming too consumed by it.

This would have shown you that your rant was misguided and out of place. But you saw the word moderation and needed to jump on it. Patience. You will get your chance (you already have in the other moderation topic), just find the right place before doing so.

You wrote:

great. I had thought this topic could be salvaged. Since this is well and truly derailed, I guess there is less harm in discussing anonyoums1's post.

Anonymous1 wrote:

//yes, and moderation is key.//

You had mentioned the term moderation - my comment responded to it... Maybe you too should keep comments to the subject if that's what you ask of others?

Context matters. The post you decided to jump on was in response to:

Ya'qub wrote:

You wrote:

Going back to the original topic, if things are taken to a level too far, it can be harmful.

Yeah but isn't the same about everything? Everything can be done in excess.

Which was talking about people taking football too seriously and becoming too consumed by it.

This would have shown you that your rant was misguided and out of place. But you saw the word moderation and needed to jump on it. Patience. You will get your chance (you already have in the other moderation topic), just find the right place before doing so.

Nope - the comment of moderation was out of place!

Muslims should not be wasting their time with nonsense like football - even in moderation.

When the Muslim world is the dire situation it is in, Muslims in Britain living here with a precarious future, Islam obliges Muslims to be proactive and do something about these problems... the West's ideas is to make their populations docile by sports, movies, entertainment... depoliticising them in the process!

If one does all this stuff in moderation that you are suggesting, their lives are little different to the kuffar - they need to be woken up! The title of this site and magazine seem woefully inadequate... instead of reviving the Muslims, your encouraging them to remain docile in their integrationist activities!

Anonymous1 wrote:

Muslims should not be wasting their time with nonsense like football - even in moderation.

Even the prophet relaxed - Chillaxing like the Prophet .

We also have ahadith where the prophet took part in races. (and in wrestling, but that was more competitive than for sport as the person had challenged the prophet to show his superiority...)

Islam is a way of life and as such it accommodates for things as a complete way of life.

It is Judaism where some extra things were banned as punishment due to the sins of the people, not Islam.

there will always be people suffering in the world somewhere and that should be challenged. At the same time that does not give you an excuse to forget and ignore the rest of the favours that Our Lord (swt) has granted us. The Qur'an tells us to be happy/celebrate the favours and mercies that He has bestowed upon us.

Anonymous1 wrote:

You wrote:

great. I had thought this topic could be salvaged. Since this is well and truly derailed, I guess there is less harm in discussing anonyoums1's post.

Anonymous1 wrote:

//yes, and moderation is key.//

You had mentioned the term moderation - my comment responded to it... Maybe you too should keep comments to the subject if that's what you ask of others?

Context matters. The post you decided to jump on was in response to:

Ya'qub wrote:

You wrote:

Going back to the original topic, if things are taken to a level too far, it can be harmful.

Yeah but isn't the same about everything? Everything can be done in excess.

Which was talking about people taking football too seriously and becoming too consumed by it.

This would have shown you that your rant was misguided and out of place. But you saw the word moderation and needed to jump on it. Patience. You will get your chance (you already have in the other moderation topic), just find the right place before doing so.

Nope - the comment of moderation was out of place!

Muslims should not be wasting their time with nonsense like football - even in moderation.

When the Muslim world is the dire situation it is in, Muslims in Britain living here with a precarious future, Islam obliges Muslims to be proactive and do something about these problems... the West's ideas is to make their populations docile by sports, movies, entertainment... depoliticising them in the process!

If one does all this stuff in moderation that you are suggesting, their lives are little different to the kuffar - they need to be woken up! The title of this site and magazine seem woefully inadequate... instead of reviving the Muslims, your encouraging them to remain docile in their integrationist activities!

are u trying to say we should not watch football? play football? watch tv? or take part in any form of entertainment/leisure?

by having fun and taking part in entertainment it doesnt been you can't be an active muslim in dawah, political Islam, trying to revive Islam. Islam is a deen and having fun/leisure is a part of human nature.

So what do you do to relax.....nothing....because its gonna mean u are like the kuffar.

I dont buy any of your arguments i'm afraid.

You wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

Muslims should not be wasting their time with nonsense like football - even in moderation.

Even the prophet relaxed - Chillaxing like the Prophet .

We also have ahadith where the prophet took part in races. (and in wrestling, but that was more competitive than for sport as the person had challenged the prophet to show his superiority...)

Islam is a way of life and as such it accommodates for things as a complete way of life.

It is Judaism where some extra things were banned as punishment due to the sins of the people, not Islam.

there will always be people suffering in the world somewhere and that should be challenged. At the same time that does not give you an excuse to forget and ignore the rest of the favours that Our Lord (swt) has granted us. The Qur'an tells us to be happy/celebrate the favours and mercies that He has bestowed upon us.

Your methodology is flawed, as it relies on out of context traditions, and induction of permissability to nonsense levels!

Firstly, the issue is that noone argues that one doing something mubah is sinful or wrong in origin, as mubah is permissable. However, when one's life is simply full of mubahaat and obligations are not being done or are marginalised there is a problem - he is sinful at best for not doing the obligations. I've noticed most who follow cricket or football are not religious, know little about Islam, knowing more about football and its intricacies than anything else!

Secondly, watching football is mubah for Malikis, who can look at the thigh of others, not for hanafis of which most Paks in UK are - including yourself no doubt - and judging the postings on the thigh discussion! Interestingly you are calling a haram action for most of your audience mubah - which is kufr according to the jurists.

Thirdly, the narrations are quite clear when the Muslims had obligations, they were not into "chillaxing" as you put it - they did their duties. They felt the pain of Muslims - when one is in pain he cannot have fun watching football or movies! Read Umar's comment on his deathbed - doing this duty of the Caliphate has meant I have never spent time with my family - I don't want someone from my family to take this role for that reason!!! In today's world, Muslims are divided, are being killed, raped, humilated, occupied, starved, threatened, wars fought against them... your gross misapplication of a text where none of that was clearly going on and you apply it to this removed circumstance - whilst many ahadith exist when Muslims were being attacked, oppressed, fought etc you cite none of them.

The remaining ahadith you speak about have contexts too - I would ask you to cite a hadith with context that encourages us to pursue mubaahat in "moderation" with similar contexts to ours!

The hadiths that are relevant to our situation are as follows:

"The believers, in their love, mutual kindness, and close ties, are like one body; when any part complains, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever." [Muslim],

"The faithful are like one man: if his eyes suffers, his whole body suffers." [Muslim]

"Every Muslim is a brother to a Muslim, neither wronging him nor allowing him to be wronged. And if anyone helps his brother in need, Allah will help him in his own need; and if anyone removes a calamity from [another] Muslim, Allah will remove from him some of the calamities of the Day of Resurrection; and if anyone shields [another] Muslim from disgrace, Allah will shield him from the disgrace on the Day of Resurrection." [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

Today's Muslim body, sod the fever, are busy watching "mubah" football in moderation!

1. You are confusing the commitment of the caliph with the commitment of a normal person.

2. your post has the suggestion that there were times where there was no dissent at discord at all. Times of absolute perfection where people then did happy things. this is not true - either through poverty, through war, through disease, or even due to old age, there have always always been people suffering. That has not meant that everyone else stop doing their thing because someone else is in pain. if you can do something you do it. If not, then you live your own life. Not living your life does not make the other peoples situation better.

3. I assume you also don't be happy on Eid, since there are Muslims who are suffering on that day too?

yes those ahadith you mention are relevant (and I will not be antsy to ask you for the arabic for them... but you should follow the standards you set. if you demand that from others, have the decency to do the same yourself) but they are not the only ones. You cannot take them out of the whole body of ahadith and pretend that there are no others out there.

More, the prophet was a messenger of God and it was his duty to spread Islam. Preaching was fardh on the prophet (saw), yet we know he relaxed, joked and had a good demeanor (while remaining strict when it came to the limits that Allah (swt) had set). Something to learn from.

Anonymous1 wrote:

I've noticed most who follow cricket or football are not religious, know little about Islam, knowing more about football and its intricacies than anything else!

You said in an earlier post that you leave Judgement up to God - but here you are passing judgement on a huge group of people and making sweeping generalisations.

Anonymous1 wrote:

Today's Muslim body, sod the fever, are busy watching "mubah" football in moderation!

Or complaining on an online forum rather than doing something about it?

You wrote:

1. You are confusing the commitment of the caliph with the commitment of a normal person.

Nope - it's an example of someone who ensured his duties took priorities over recommended matters which in turn took priority over permissable matters. This is one example out of many - the Sharia expects this. It does not expect people to be doing mubahaat when faraaid need to be done!

You wrote:

2. your post has the suggestion that there were times where there was no dissent at discord at all. Times of absolute perfection where people then did happy things. this is not true - either through poverty, through war, through disease, or even due to old age, there have always always been people suffering. That has not meant that everyone else stop doing their thing because someone else is in pain...

I do not suggest times of perfection - but there were times of relative stability, tranquility and peace. Muslims could relex as they had put in place systems and processes to ensure when there was war, ONE muslim army would move - when people were hit with poverty there was a tax collection system to meet the need. It was rare when mass society had to do something as the systems had broken down - eg the Mongol invasions or crusades!

Today all our Islamic systems have broken down - we are led by Western agents, lackeys and secularists!

You wrote:

3. I assume you also don't be happy on Eid, since there are Muslims who are suffering on that day too?

Yes right - a recommended act is comparable to a mubah/haram matter like watching football with half naked men which I notice you haven't addressed - but are defending!!!

You've missed my point - I am not saying be miserable all the time. If one of your family members was in prison being tortured, you could celebrate eid - you however would have the issue in the back of your mind and you would never be totally tranquil and chilling out and watching football without a care in the world... there is a clear problem in the latter behavior and attitude which you appear to be rejecting!

You wrote:

yes those ahadith you mention are relevant (and I will not be antsy to ask you for the arabic for them... but you should follow the standards you set. if you demand that from others, have the decency to do the same yourself)

I can provide the Arabic for you - first let me know if you know Arabic and can read/seak it? - secondly, is there any aspect of the narration you have an issue with in its translation? I only ask for translations when there is games being played with them! These narrations are accurate in their translations - unlike ahadith about prohibition of chess or Islam being "moderate" where the Quranic verse does not even use the term.

You wrote:

but they are not the only ones. You cannot take them out of the whole body of ahadith and pretend that there are no others out there.

The ones cited are relevant and clear on the subject - no doubt there are more and you are welcome to cite them if they add anything to the subject and discussion...

You wrote:

More, the prophet was a messenger of God and it was his duty to spread Islam. Preaching was fardh on the prophet (saw), yet we know he relaxed, joked and had a good demeanor (while remaining strict when it came to the limits that Allah (swt) had set). Something to learn from.

The discussion isn't about whether one can relax or make a joke - or even watch a film or two. The problem is where people are indulged simply in these mubahaat with little other activity - which most of those into football or cricket are guilty of! Even if I ask some of the characters on this board a few basic questions about Islam they could not answer them! Most can't even speak the language of Islam - Arabic - yet they have time to watch this nonsense!

Ya'qub wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

I've noticed most who follow cricket or football are not religious, know little about Islam, knowing more about football and its intricacies than anything else!

You said in an earlier post that you leave Judgement up to God - but here you are passing judgement on a huge group of people and making sweeping generalisations.

I said earlier I do not make judgements of hellfire/paradise about specific individuals - if you recall I also said I will say what the judgment on kufr and nifaq is - hellfire! As that is the judgement of Quran on the concepts of kufr / nifaq and those who follow these concepts!

Likewise, Quran and Sunnah make it clear that those who do not do their duties are sinful and can be punished - so reiterating that is no problem.

Anonymous1 wrote:

Today's Muslim body, sod the fever, are busy watching "mubah" football in moderation!

Or complaining on an online forum rather than doing something about it?[/quote]

LOL The one who addresses it and the fact is wrong is doing nothing? Maybe you should read about something called "commanding good, forbidding evil".

Anonymous1 wrote:

You wrote:

1. You are confusing the commitment of the caliph with the commitment of a normal person.

Nope - it's an example of someone who ensured his duties took priorities over recommended matters which in turn took priority over permissable matters. This is one example out of many - the Sharia expects this. It does not expect people to be doing mubahaat when faraaid need to be done!

Your words were:

Read Umar's comment on his deathbed - doing this duty of the Caliphate has meant I have never spent time with my family

Maybe you misquoted/misparaphrased?

Anonymous1 wrote:

LOL The one who addresses it and the fact is wrong is doing nothing? Maybe you should read about something called "commanding good, forbidding evil".

Can I have some evidence that football is evil please?

because at the moment you seem to be 'forbidding sport', which is not quite the same as 'forbidding evil'.

Many thanks

You wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

You wrote:

1. You are confusing the commitment of the caliph with the commitment of a normal person.

Nope - it's an example of someone who ensured his duties took priorities over recommended matters which in turn took priority over permissable matters. This is one example out of many - the Sharia expects this. It does not expect people to be doing mubahaat when faraaid need to be done!

Your words were:

Read Umar's comment on his deathbed - doing this duty of the Caliphate has meant I have never spent time with my family

Maybe you misquoted/misparaphrased?

The quote is pertinent - as I said, he understood his duties and ensured duties took priority over non-duties - his example was as a caliph, numerous other examples exist - when jihad was called for in Medina, people went to do their duties, except the hypocrites etc The principle embedded in all these examples is duties take priorities over non-duties - football/cricket/trivia is being watched whilst duties are neglected... disgraceful!

Funzo wrote:

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

There's NOTHING wrong with rooney!!!

Saw my mate the other day
he said to me hes seen the white pele
so i asked who is he?
he said he goes by the name of
waaaayne roooooney
waaaaaaaaaayne rooooooooooney!

:]

NONOOONONONONON!!!!

i dont see the world "FOOTBALL" or "WORLD CUP" anywhere anymore!! just really long post that are making me dizzy!!!

Go get your own forum topic! i wanna talk about the world cup here!

Did u not see ROOONEY in the above post??

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Did u not see ROOONEY in the above post??

two minutes diff between our posts, i never got to see it T.T

So Portugal v ivory coast

surprised it was 0-0, thought atleast Ronaldo would've scored.

BRAZIL-NORTH KOREA!

korea scored on the EIGHTY NINTH MINUTE! that is just wouah...

even though i was supporting Brazil, who won 2-1.

talking about "moderation" i havent watched any of the matches as i dont have a tv, but ive been following the live commentaries on Yahoo. (i know it doesnt EVEN compare but...)

so i havent stayed stuck to my "tv" for 90 minutes. Is that moderation or what?

Ya'qub wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

LOL The one who addresses it and the fact is wrong is doing nothing? Maybe you should read about something called "commanding good, forbidding evil".

Can I have some evidence that football is evil please?

because at the moment you seem to be 'forbidding sport', which is not quite the same as 'forbidding evil'.

Many thanks

Perhaps you can explain what is halal in watching men's thighs when the Prophet(Saw) prohibited it (Malikis excluded which most paks are not!)?

Anonymous1 wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

LOL The one who addresses it and the fact is wrong is doing nothing? Maybe you should read about something called "commanding good, forbidding evil".

Can I have some evidence that football is evil please?

because at the moment you seem to be 'forbidding sport', which is not quite the same as 'forbidding evil'.

Many thanks

Perhaps you can explain what is halal in watching men's thighs when the Prophet(Saw) prohibited it (Malikis excluded which most paks are not!)?

I thought you didn't need to follow just one school of thought as they all went and did their research and everything. Anyway Ya'qub's clearly not a paki.
i will probably regret posting this.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

LOL The one who addresses it and the fact is wrong is doing nothing? Maybe you should read about something called "commanding good, forbidding evil".

Can I have some evidence that football is evil please?

because at the moment you seem to be 'forbidding sport', which is not quite the same as 'forbidding evil'.

Many thanks

Perhaps you can explain what is halal in watching men's thighs when the Prophet(Saw) prohibited it (Malikis excluded which most paks are not!)?

I thought you didn't need to follow just one school of thought as they all went and did their research and everything. Anyway Ya'qub's clearly not a paki.
i will probably regret posting this.

I personally don't think those who watch it really give a damn about halal/haram - most don't know of the Maliki view on the thigh (as evidenced in another thread!) yet were still watching... It's the same with boxing - prohibited to hit the face but most watch anyway...

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

Ya'qub wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

LOL The one who addresses it and the fact is wrong is doing nothing? Maybe you should read about something called "commanding good, forbidding evil".

Can I have some evidence that football is evil please?

because at the moment you seem to be 'forbidding sport', which is not quite the same as 'forbidding evil'.

Many thanks

Perhaps you can explain what is halal in watching men's thighs when the Prophet(Saw) prohibited it (Malikis excluded which most paks are not!)?

I thought you didn't need to follow just one school of thought as they all went and did their research and everything. Anyway Ya'qub's clearly not a paki.
i will probably regret posting this.

Fiiifz: Umm how is Yaqub not being Pakistani related?

Random: Oh and i don't know what weird football you watch where the guys are wearing hotpants or whatever
but you usually can't see footballer's thighs lol.
Or you're looking waaaaaaay too hard :L

MakeMeRawr_7TeenF wrote:

Fiiifz: Umm how is Yaqub not being Pakistani related?

Anon1's argument was that most pakistanis are hanafi, so maliki rulings do not apply.

Then again anon1's position does not cover where someone is keeping up to date with just the commentary or from online updates either...

but discussing with anon1 is probably pointless. she is unwilling to accept that there is any flaw in any of her arguments, manners or any other thing related to her.

You wrote:

MakeMeRawr_7TeenF wrote:

Fiiifz: Umm how is Yaqub not being Pakistani related?

Anon1's argument was that most pakistanis are hanafi, so maliki rulings do not apply.

Then again anon1's position does not cover where someone is keeping up to date with just the commentary or from online updates either...

but discussing with anon1 is probably pointless. she is unwilling to accept that there is any flaw in any of her arguments, manners or any other thing related to her.

I thought anon was male tbh

when is englands next match?

MakeMeRawr_7TeenF wrote:

but you usually can't see footballer's thighs lol.
Or you're looking waaaaaaay too hard :L

USUALLY? So occassionally looking at thighs is ok... sorry, but I thought doing haram once or many times was haram....

I assume that according to you it is not allowed to leave the house because occasionally you may see someone who is not dressed in the correct Islamic dress code?

Anonymous1 wrote:

MakeMeRawr_7TeenF wrote:

but you usually can't see footballer's thighs lol.
Or you're looking waaaaaaay too hard :L

USUALLY? So occassionally looking at thighs is ok... sorry, but I thought doing haram once or many times was haram....

according to the maliki's it's not haraam though. btw did u provide proof for that?

And you know what i was watching the spain v switzerland match and i kept thinking about this topic and concentrating on whether i could see the thighs or not :/

BTW can you believe spain lost????/ ...am i the only one who likes them?
And Argentina 4-1