Do you believe that Islam is about finding fault and picking fights with others? Do you prefer a theocracy's nuclear showdown to a tolerant society? Would it be a blessing to you if everyone suddenly believed all the world's slander of Israel and backed a campaign to destroy the state? Are America and the UK an axis of evil hellbent on nefariously protecting Jewish interests above their own? Are people making arguments you don't agree with just trying to undermine and conquer you? Is it acceptable to oppose them with beliefs borrowed from the script of neo-nazis and decried by legitimate historians the world over? And are scientists in the fields of geology, biology and physics doing their utmost to destroy God?
If the answer to these questions is a resounding YES, this thread is for you. Tell us about yourselves.
Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".
www.presstv.ir
I am for encouraging anyone, Jewish or Muslim, to consider how to bring an end to conflict that is workable. That means BOTH SIDES WOULD HAVE TO MAKE COMPROMISES. To date you are not a compromising sort, which this thread is meant to demonstrate because I found Funzo's stance (which he later clarified to distance himself a little) intensely irritating. I don't mind Funzo though, we have had nice chats and AFAIK he isn't militant like you. I don't hate Muslims, this thread is about you and those who agree with you, and that is some Muslims, and it is about frustration and disgust, not hate. And we do disagree about many historical facts - I am open to revision, and am often wrong about things, but in my experience nobody is always right. Is it possible your own education in the matter tells only half a story? Is there any chance, Malik, that you ever look at things that way, rather than as an angry loyalist? Maybe you already answered that:
But maybe you didn't. But you do not hear Jews talking of wiping anyone off the map. Some people, going even further than yourself to defame Jews (but with greater subtlety) might offer nice reinterpretations of your leaders' words, so that Israel always seems to be a Woody Allen neurotic in a Terminator body, but it isn't like that. I'm glad you don't. It is strange that you find Israel intolerant by comparison with just about anyone you DO support. OK, find out what Jews think happened at, say, Jewish Virtual Library. You might not accept their version of events, but know this: Jews do. We are not purposely making anything up, and we can talk. Rhetoric against Israel tends to be exceptionally vicious. It isn't useful if we want an accord, although naturally Malik if you are hellbent on victory and delight in insincerity and baiting, such details are incidental.This is why I point out you refer to the neo-nazi playbook, the Jewish banking conspiracies. Are you that simple? Do you not see that in every society there are successful people and unsuccessful people, and many non-Jews are successful, and many Jews unsuccessful, as much as the other way? Arab wealth or Arab lobbyists register to you? Is that particular wealth non-corrupt whereas Jewish wealth is? Really Malik??? OK. Incidentally if you want to understand why Israel has kept the US so close, consider how outnumbered Israel is by Arab states and how easy it is to pass resolutions against Israel if the US continually withheld its veto. That isn't some point in Israel's defense, just a point of fact.
But Malik, you didn't understand, honestly do you believe that I could only be sat here writing this as a bought hand or out of support for inhumanity? You understand little of your comparison except that it inflames the minds of Jews and, if believed, advances your case. If you knew how sick it is to present that - viciously anyway, and not like an appeal for mercy - and how destructive it is not to your cause but to that of Palestinian autonomy, you wouldn't go there.
And are scientists in the fields of geology, biology and physics doing their utmost to destroy God?
Hey... I AGREE! But you have made comments before suggesting that you hold new theories in extremely low regard and that scientists are doing the devil's work. Here you have only referred to "their findings" which is a bit weasely of you. You insult God if you think He will listen to such a vile curse. I won't further the insult by asking him not to.I don't know why an Iran-lover has to hate an Israel-lover, to use your terminology, or vice versa. In fact the Jewish Persians I know are very sad about it all.
I appreciate the time you took, with the formatting and all. This reply obviously is for you.
WHile I rarely agree with Malik, Israel rarely does itself any favours.
Besides a bully has a legitimate reason to worry - not everyone who is bullied will turn the other cheek if they get the opportunity and Israels own history of turning from the bullied into the bully should give it cause for concern over its actions oppressing others.
If you oppress the weak, the weak gaining strength is a very real fear. Justice can have a price.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
This is an explanation as to why I have discarded the possibility of replies I considered a moment ago: giving a view on the article you linked; emphasising the successes of liberal and peaceful movements in Israel; linking articles that reflect poorly on Gaza and the West Bank and well on Israel; discussing root causes; or even after eschewing that: objecting to a technique of discussion I try to avoid, being to cherry pick instances that prove one party more right than the other. Occasionally a particular instance is just that clarifying but this isn't, and fully to justify that remark I really would need to get into that business of arguing from loyalty alone until you experience the same futility in it as I have found. You are entirely justified, in fact it is a good thing as I see it, to argue for better treatment of Palestinians. Peace Now does that, B'tselem does that, I'm sure you can find plenty of untainted organisations. But it would possibly be silly to stand in the line of fire with Malik, or Hamas, or Hizbollah, or Iran, none of which are renowned for giving a damn about human rights as you do. Not just silly, strange.
I get regular updates from Peace Now. I'm not involved with them directly but in conversation I have developed a respect. Because of people like Malik they are commonly confronted with the question: why are you telling Jews what to do when concessions make no difference to the enmity Israel faces? There are good answers to that (and terrible ones), but as long as that enmity comes with a clenched fist held high for a plethora of demands that are not just, those arguments are slightly theoretical, whereas Peace Now keeps going in spite of those concerns because there is nothing theoretical about the bloodshed and what is unjust. The ideologies of Malik and many like him are a major part of the problem, and they are no more human rights policies than the BNP is the party of respect for community or whatever other claptrap they want to put on their banners. I think it's terrible that Britain has fewer and fewer intrinsically British communities, which is to say people can't do what they like in the pubs, aristocrats cannot pursue old hunting traditions that it turns out had a good agricultural basis, the media and global commerce has taken people away from their halls and churches to form communities not unlike this right here, which is not an adequate replacement for community life. But you wouldn't find me saying that where a BNP activist is campaigning for votes, the argument is too easily coopted into very different, racist, beliefs. Same. I think.
It makes not one difference how many nice things Israel does to muslims. It has killed them and persecuted them on their own land. Israel suppresses muslim women and children in Gaza and West Bank every day.
Israel is completely evil. Muslims want it gone, dead and buried. Muslim nations will never accept Israel or make peace with it. They want all Jews expelled from Palestine. Its all muslims land, all of it. God will get it back for muslims.
Israel was built on stolen land. Jews robbed Palestinians of their country and expelled them. They have to pay for this crime committed in 1948. Israel has to go. Iran is right to wipe it off the face of the earth. Its according to UN Charter. You just cant go around taking over muslim nation and claim its belongs to Jews. Hell it does.
Lanat on thieves who stole Palestine. God curse them all. Lanat on those who think Israel is right. Lanat on those who help Israel against muslims.
Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".
www.presstv.ir
Iran has no right to do that. It is not the party that was harmed.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Malik's an example of someone it's little use talking to except for demonstration and study. He takes his lead from authority; that makes a solution without bloodshed a very long shot but we can try. Meanwhile I'm sure everyone follows developments and can see what's coming.
Malik, just lay off all this hatred of Jews.
Obviously you disagree with Israel's actions in Gaza.
I do too.
But please, there is no need for blaming all Jews for actions of some Israeli soldiers.
That is just racism on your part Malik.
I am sure you wouldnt like it if all Iranians get blamed for crimes of a few Shias.
So, dont be an idiot. Calling for mass murder of Jews is not Islamic at all.
Would your Imam Ali have killed all the Jews?
No.
So think about it before you pour your racist hatred against our Jewish cousins.
Muslims and Jews are both descended from Abraham.
I have been reading your crap for a few weeks.
Jews have as much to live in peace and happiness as you do.
Astagfirallah. a muslim who is a jew lover. its must be the end of times. why do you have to kiss their arse. israel is cimmitting the mass murder of musloims women and children, are you blind or what. you are more worried about jewish people who invaded palestine. repent brother and renew your shahada.
Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".
www.presstv.ir
would you still hate israel if it agreed to the saudi peace plan?
i think most of the muslim world would be chuffed to bits and there understanding of israel would change allot.
but will they accept it?
it would also show the tru face of middle eastern politics goin on. ie the big shia /sunni politics being played in iraq, lebanon, yemen, saudi. plus also the failure of the iranian revolution to do what it cam into being for
Unfortunately, Joie de Vivre, my (not inconsiderable) experience with Muslims suggests that his type is indeed typical. And I would agree with your conclusion.