Muhammad SAW created from clay not light

Anonymous (not verified) —

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has been described as being light from the light of Allaah. If what is meant by this is that he himself is from the light of Allaah, then this goes against the Qur’aan, which refers to his being human. If what is meant is that he is light in the sense that he brought the Revelation by which whoever Allah wills of His creation is guided, then this is correct. The committee has issued a fatwa concerning this matter, as follows:

“The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has light which is the light of the message and guidance from Allaah, through which Allaah guides whomsoever He will of His slaves. No doubt the light of the message and of guidance comes from Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

‘It is not given to any human being that Allaah should speak to him unless (it be)by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or (that) He sends a Messenger to reveal what He wills by His Leave. Verily, He is Most High, Most Wise.

And thus We have sent to you (O Muhammad) Roohan (an Inspiration, and a Mercy) of Our Command. You knew not what is the Book, nor what is Faith? But We have made it (this Qur’aan) a light wherewith We guide whosoever of Our slaves We will. And verily, you (O Muhammad) are indeed guiding (mankind) to the Straight Path (i.e., Allaah’s religion of Islamic monotheism), --

The path of Allaah, to Whom belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. Verily, all the matters at the end go to Allaah (for decision).”[al-Shura 42:51-53]

This light is not derived from the Seal of the Awliya’ as some heretics claim. The body of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was blood and flesh and bone, and so on. He was created from a father and a mother, and had no existence before he was born. The reports which say that the first thing created by Allaah was the light of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or that Allaah grasped a handful of the light from His Face and that this handful was Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then He looked at it and it formed drops, and from each of these drops He created a Prophet, or He created all of creation from the light of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – all of these reports and the like are not saheeh, and nothing like this has been narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).”

From the fatwa quoted above, it is clear that this is a false belief.

As for the report which says “I am ‘Arab without (the letter) ‘ayn, i.e., Rabb, and I am Ahmad without (the letter) meem, i.e., Ahad” – the attributes of Lordship (ruboobiyah, from Rabb meaning Lord) and Absolute Unity (Ahad meaning One) are attributes that belong uniquely to Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted. It is not permissible for any one of His creation to be described as “the Lord (Rabb)” or as being One (Ahad) in absolute terms. These are attributes that belong exclusively to Allaah, and are not used to describe the Messengers or any other human beings. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.

Al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah li’l-Buhooth al-‘Ilmiyyah wa’l-Ifta’ (Standing Committee for Academic Research and the Issuing of Fatwas).

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/310.

Question:

Is it said that Allaah created the heavens and earth for the purpose of creating the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)? What is the meaning of the words, “Were it not for you, the universe [lit. heavenly bodies] would not have been created”? Is there any basis for this hadeeth? Is it saheeh or not? Please give us the facts.

Answer:

The heavens and earth were not created for the sake of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They were created for the reason mentioned by Allaah in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is Allaah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e., seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allaah has power over all things, and that Allaah surrounds (comprehends) all things in (His) Knowledge.”[al-Talaaq 65:12]

As for the hadeeth mentioned, it is falsely attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and has no grounds for authenticity. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions. In other words it is a false and fabricated hadith.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/312.

Forum

awlia (not verified) — Fri, 4 Dec 2009 - 17:02

[quote=You][quote=awlia][quote=St786][quote=Noor]can you present one ayah or one hadith that states that the prophet ﷺ wasn't noor. [/quote]

point is still the same do you take it as a metaphor or literally.[/quote]

i can present you the evidence that muhammad SAW is not light, but obviously you cant do the same, such as allah says to muhammad SAW you say "i am a human being" muhammad SAW also states in many hadith that he is just a human being, he was the son of abdullah, and of aadam AS, who was a human being so his children will obviously be the same as him.

Now tell me something can a angel be created from clay, and can a shaytan be created from clay?[/quote]

Are you saying that God cannot create angels or jinn out of clay if he so chooses? Na'udhullah.

And that is where the heart of the matter is.

Yes, the Prophet ﷺ was human, but why are you so adamant in suggesting that God - the creator of all the worlds, the most powerful, the unequalled cannot create the Prophet ﷺ from light.

I gave you quranic evidence, using the word "nur", which you seem to have conveniently ignored. Along with the hadith where the Prophet ﷺ said he was not like Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra).

This is not an important matter (as its not part of the kalimah), unless you make it important, or try to limit the abilities of God.[/quote]

when did i say that? stop putting words in my mouth, i said can a jinn be created from clay,but obviously you didnt get the question, the point of the the question was if a shaytan was created from clay would it be any different from human beings? as if human and shaytan were to be created from clay then they would be the same, by same not same beings but same in same type of creation, just like that if a human is to be created from light how does that make it any different to angels? and jibrail AS was sent to maryam in human form so how would that make a jibrail AS in human form any different to human created from light, as both are now in human form and are light, so he muhammad SAW how can he be created from light, as if he was then how would that make him any different from an angel? so he muhammad SAW is clay no different to human beings, as human being created from light will make them same as angels and saying a human to be created from light is like saying saying an angel being created from lcay, as an angel being created fromclay does not make it the same as being created from light does it.

And show me the hadith where he said he is not like abu bakr, so i can see what fabrication you added in that hadith.

as for the quran verse of nur how about showing me the verse again, as i already have a feeling of which one youll show me just want to be sure

infact im quite sure youll be reffering to that verse so i might aswell give my answer to that:

“The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has light which is the light of the message and guidance from Allaah, through which Allaah guides whomsoever He will of His slaves. No doubt the light of the message and of guidance comes from Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

so when allah says light to muhammad SAW their he doesnt mean muhammad SAW is light,but by light he means guidance,like me saying i am a light to these people, by tha ti dont mean i am light but simply i am the guidance to those people this is what it means. light of guidance.

As for brother Jay K yes your right i should speak with more respect, so jazakallahukhair for the reminder.

And as for You next time if you dont understand a question just ask not make a false assumption to it and make a silly respose to that.

Suhail (not verified) — Fri, 4 Dec 2009 - 19:54

[quote=awlia][quote=St786][quote=Noor]can you present one ayah or one hadith that states that the prophet ﷺ wasn't noor. [/quote]

point is still the same do you take it as a metaphor or literally.[/quote]

i can present you the evidence that muhammad SAW is not light, but obviously you cant do the same, such as allah says to muhammad SAW you say "i am a human being" muhammad SAW also states in many hadith that he is just a human being, he was the son of abdullah, and of aadam AS, who was a human being so his children will obviously be the same as him.

Now tell me something can a angel be created from clay, and can a shaytan be created from clay?[/quote]

The prophet PBUH was human just like us in physical terms but in status he was special of course he was different in means of status he was the last prophet PBUH chosen
by Allah SWT.

Allah created man from clay , angels from light and satan from fire and this can be found in sai hadith.

it all comes down to how you interprate the qur'an whether literally or questions its meaning and come to your own conclusion. I think we should read translation of qur'an written by respected scholar who we can trust like in our house we use Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an english translation and you can get translations which also have footnotes to guide on the meaning.

Noor — Fri, 4 Dec 2009 - 19:55

[quote=St786][quote=Noor]can you present one ayah or one hadith that states that the prophet ﷺ wasn't noor. [/quote]

point is still the same do you take it as a metaphor or literally.[/quote]

didn't see this post.

i take it literally.

awlia (not verified) — Fri, 4 Dec 2009 - 22:59

[quote=St786][quote=awlia][quote=St786][quote=Noor]can you present one ayah or one hadith that states that the prophet ﷺ wasn't noor. [/quote]

point is still the same do you take it as a metaphor or literally.[/quote]

i can present you the evidence that muhammad SAW is not light, but obviously you cant do the same, such as allah says to muhammad SAW you say "i am a human being" muhammad SAW also states in many hadith that he is just a human being, he was the son of abdullah, and of aadam AS, who was a human being so his children will obviously be the same as him.

Now tell me something can a angel be created from clay, and can a shaytan be created from clay?[/quote]

The prophet PBUH was human just like us in physical terms but in status he was special of course he was different in means of status he was the last prophet PBUH chosen
by Allah SWT.

Allah created man from clay , angels from light and satan from fire and this can be found in sai hadith.

it all comes down to how you interprate the qur'an whether literally or questions its meaning and come to your own conclusion. I think we should read translation of qur'an written by respected scholar who we can trust like in our house we use Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an english translation and you can get translations which also have footnotes to guide on the meaning.[/quote]

very well said brother,and yes like maududi yusuf alis translation is also 100% accurate like maududis and many other.

You — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 05:27

[quote=awlia]i said can a jinn be created from clay,but obviously you didnt get the question, the point of the the question was if a shaytan was created from clay would it be any different from human beings?[/quote]

My question to both is yes - as saying otherwise is saying Allah (swt) is incapable of doing that. I cannot accept such limits on the powers of God.

God can make us however He so chooses.

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 11:24

[quote=You][quote=awlia]i said can a jinn be created from clay,but obviously you didnt get the question, the point of the the question was if a shaytan was created from clay would it be any different from human beings?[/quote]

My question to both is yes - as saying otherwise is saying Allah (swt) is incapable of doing that. I cannot accept such limits on the powers of God.

God can make us however He so chooses.
[/quote]

This is not about the powers of allah, its not about whether allah can do it or not because he can, its the fact that it wont happend and allah will not do it as somethings go through a certain prcess which allah created

like: can the sun rotate the earth? no it cant, is it because allah cant do it? the answer is no because allah can do so if he wishes, but why wont allah make the sun rotate the earth, because the duniya doesnt work like that, it is the earth that rotates the sun as thats the way allah has made this duniya work,another example if allah created someone a girl can that girl change into a man? can a girl change into a boy even though she does many duas to allah? the answer is no the girl cant change into a boy, not because allah cant do it but because allah has decided that individual to be a girl and will always be a girl as thats what he decided, just like that human cannot be created from light, as allah has decided human to be made from clay and angels from light, human cannot be light, as just like a girl can never turn into a boy as allah has decided for her that she'll always be a girl a human will never be created from light as this is how allah has decided to make this part work, he decided its angels from light and humans from clay and shaytan from fire, not because allah cant do it but because thats how allah has wished for this to work no different to how the earth rotates the sun and not the other way round. As if that was the case then it would be illogical.

You — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 12:13

Ignoring all your other arguments (gender re-alignment says hello, but that is a different topic in itself...), the fact is that there is a verse of the Qur'an referring to the Prophet ﷺ as nur.

Now you can take this as literal or metaphorical, or come up with some other meaning, but you cannot deny the verse, as that would be kufr.

I have shown you where those that call the prophet ﷺ nur get their evidence. After that, it is up to you to accept or reject, but you cannot deny that they have got something to back their view up too.

To me, it matters little what God decided to make the prophet ﷺ out of. We all accept the Prophet ﷺ is special and for me that is enough. as for specifics, I care not.

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 13:21

[quote=You]Ignoring all your other arguments (gender re-alignment says hello, but that is a different topic in itself...), the fact is that there is a verse of the Qur'an referring to the Prophet ﷺ as nur.

Now you can take this as literal or metaphorical, or come up with some other meaning, but you cannot deny the verse, as that would be kufr.

I have shown you where those that call the prophet ﷺ nur get their evidence. After that, it is up to you to accept or reject, but you cannot deny that they have got something to back their view up too.

To me, it matters little what God decided to make the prophet ﷺ out of. We all accept the Prophet ﷺ is special and for me that is enough. as for specifics, I care not.[/quote]

and i proved you wrong by stating what those verses actually mean, it means he muhammad SAW is the light of guidance, meaning light=guidance, not that he is actually light, but guidance, like me saying i am the light to the people of the revival, meaning i am not actually light but saying i am the light of guidance to you/i am the guidance to the people here, thats what the quran means when mentions muhmmad SAW as light, anyway that has also been mentioned in the article, so i dont need to repeat myself

You — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 13:57

[quote=awlia]and i proved you wrong by stating what those verses actually mean[/quote]
No, you didn't. You just gave an alternative explanation. Which I am happy t accept. as I mentioned before, the matter does not matter much to me.

You however:

1. So far have ignored wave particle duality - (which also means that matter being light is nothing special)
2. Have been trying to say that humans CANNOT be made out of light, which I would say is a matter for God to decide and not us mere humans as otherwise God is being limited in His power.

Just because you can't imagine it, does not mean that God cannot do it. Same with miracles - yes there is a general process for things that God has set into motion, but following it or not is also His will.

There are hadith that water came out of the Prophet (saw)'s fingers from which many people drank. None comes out of mine, and I suspect that none comes out of yours.

awlia (not verified) — Sat, 5 Dec 2009 - 21:42

[quote=You][quote=awlia]and i proved you wrong by stating what those verses actually mean[/quote]
No, you didn't. You just gave an alternative explanation. Which I am happy t accept. as I mentioned before, the matter does not matter much to me.

You however:

1. So far have ignored wave particle duality - (which also means that matter being light is nothing special)
2. Have been trying to say that humans CANNOT be made out of light, which I would say is a matter for God to decide and not us mere humans as otherwise God is being limited in His power.

Just because you can't imagine it, does not mean that God cannot do it. Same with miracles - yes there is a general process for things that God has set into motion, but following it or not is also His will.

There are hadith that water came out of the Prophet (saw)'s fingers from which many people drank. None comes out of mine, and I suspect that none comes out of yours.[/quote]

first of all dont think that i dont have an answer to your claim here, but right now im in a rush, but i will answer this and all the other things you have posted either tomorow or inshallah the day after, as im going to my cousins house, as for now well im getting my self ready to watch some boxing and football. As for your refute, well i already have an answer for all of them will just take time to write them which i dont have now, so you will inshallah get it tomorow.

You — Sun, 6 Dec 2009 - 07:57

ok, I patiently await you answer over why God cannot create a human out of light. Thank you for keeping me aware of your intention to answer.

Enjoy the fight. (surprised that you watch boxing though)

malik — Sun, 6 Dec 2009 - 18:43

[quote=awlia][quote=malik]Ya Ali Madaad.

Prophet (pbuh) in one famous hadith found in sunni books said:

"Me and Ali were created from one Light."

[/quote]

fabricated hadith

[/quote]

Why do you say this hadith is fabricated. Please prove it.

YouShutup — Mon, 7 Dec 2009 - 09:18

[quote=malik][quote=awlia][quote=malik]Ya Ali Madaad.

Prophet (pbuh) in one famous hadith found in sunni books said:

"Me and Ali were created from one Light."

[/quote]

fabricated hadith

[/quote]

Why do you say this hadith is fabricated. Please prove it.[/quote]

He's a street scholar. He knows the science behind proving and disproving Hadith. Some of the smartest men shunned from taking the responsibility but the street scholars took it on their shoulders.

awlia (not verified) — Mon, 7 Dec 2009 - 09:57

[quote=malik][quote=awlia][quote=malik]Ya Ali Madaad.

Prophet (pbuh) in one famous hadith found in sunni books said:

"Me and Ali were created from one Light."

[/quote]

fabricated hadith

[/quote]

Why do you say this hadith is fabricated. Please prove it.[/quote]

This hadith is from the shia, and has clearly been declared fabricated, and also stated "may the people who fabricated this hadith be cursed" it is very rare to see people curse people so openly for fabricating hadiths and this is one of them, shhowing how weak and fabricated this hadith is.

awlia (not verified) — Mon, 7 Dec 2009 - 10:00

[quote=YouShutup][quote=malik][quote=awlia][quote=malik]Ya Ali Madaad.

Prophet (pbuh) in one famous hadith found in sunni books said:

"Me and Ali were created from one Light."

[/quote]

fabricated hadith

[/quote]

Why do you say this hadith is fabricated. Please prove it.[/quote]

He's a street scholar. He knows the science behind proving and disproving Hadith. Some of the smartest men shunned from taking the responsibility but the street scholars took it on their shoulders.
[/quote]

not a scholar nor am i a street scholar, but am a student of many scholars.

as for boxing, not really a fan of boxing, just wanted to watch prescott fight another english boxer who knocked amir khan out, and have to say after this fight, prescott is shit and was outclassed, amir khan was a fool to fire his old trainer and use that nonsense of a trainer for that match, well good his got freddy roach now.

awlia (not verified) — Mon, 7 Dec 2009 - 10:16

[quote=You][quote=awlia]and i proved you wrong by stating what those verses actually mean[/quote]
No, you didn't. You just gave an alternative explanation. Which I am happy t accept. as I mentioned before, the matter does not matter much to me.

You however:

1. So far have ignored wave particle duality - (which also means that matter being light is nothing special)
2. Have been trying to say that humans CANNOT be made out of light, which I would say is a matter for God to decide and not us mere humans as otherwise God is being limited in His power.

Just because you can't imagine it, does not mean that God cannot do it. Same with miracles - yes there is a general process for things that God has set into motion, but following it or not is also His will.

There are hadith that water came out of the Prophet (saw)'s fingers from which many people drank. None comes out of mine, and I suspect that none comes out of yours.[/quote]

i never said it is not possible for allah, but if you look at my example the point i made was its not that it isnt possible but its because their are somethings in duniya that wont happend as its part of the cycle allah provided, like can a boy transform into a girl? will allah do so? inshallah of course not as once allah decides to gove a gender to a a human being theyll always be that. So human being created from clay is also like that, its not about whether its possible for allah its one of those things that is just meant to be that way: human=clay, angels=light and shaytan fire.

And being created from light isnt anything special, but light is chosen for angels and clay for human, as when jirail AS came to maryam in human form, if muhammad SAW was made from light how would that make him different from jibrail in that form? So yes i do believe human cannot be created from light as light has been chosen for angels and clay for human.

Anyway knowing that logic isnt something that sufis and barelvis clearly reject its now back to the original quran and sunnah, and the evidence from their which usually exposes things.

But before that for the water from muhammad SAW, thats just a miracle, you dont need to be created from light to do that, muhammad SAW is the proof his a human from clay, and the next example i'll use is Ibrahim AS, his miracle of not being burned by fire, see he performed a miracle does that mean his light, of course not any human being could perform miracle if ALLAH chooses them to do so.

So water coming out of muhammad SAW finger is just a miracle like many other miracles performed by prophets and even 1 major miracle that happend with umar ibn al khattab after the death of muhammad SAW.
How does that prove anything? many prophets performed miracle and so did muhammad SAW, another miracle he performed was splitting the moon, Sulayman AS could speak to animals, can you speak to animals?

Now back to quran and sunnah, i asked you to show me a singloe verse of the quran that says muhammad SAW is created from light, and a single hadith that shows muhammad SAW being created from light, what do you do, you show me bunch of fabricated hadith, and another thing you do you take out verses from teh quran and change the meaning.fabricate it, now again i ask you, show me a single verse from the quran or hadith that says muhammad SAW is created from light and i will turn into a sufi if you can, and makesure its not fame fabricated or given a made up translation by you or other deviuant scholars.