he Taliban has failed to keep its side of the bargain in the Swat Valley – and Pakistan is facing criticism at home and abroad
It seemed like a good idea at the time. Rather than endlessly engage in inconclusive, on-off guerrilla warfare with Taliban insurgents, Pakistan's security forces cut a deal. The Islamists would have de facto local administrative control, including implementation of sharia law. In return, they would accept federal government authority, stop fighting, and lay down their arms.
But February's deal in Swat has brought nothing but trouble, as its many domestic and foreign critics predicted. Tales of Taliban outrages against local people, including summary executions and the flogging of women for un-Islamist behaviour, gave the lie to claims that Swat's 1.5 million residents supported the militants' takeover.
It quickly became clear that Taliban leaders would not keep their side of the bargain. No arms were decommissioned; instead local police and judges were hounded out. Speaking from Swat in a nationally televised address last week, Maulana Sufi Muhammad, a senior cleric, said the aim was to create a "complete Islamic system" for the north-west region and ultimately, the entire country.
Specifically, Sufi Muhammad said appeals from sharia courts to state courts would not be allowed, despite earlier undertakings. "All un-Islamic laws and customs will be abolished," he said, making it plain that he and other radicals such as the recently freed Maulana Abdul Aziz regarded Pakistan's western-style democratic constitution as illegitimate. "The Qur'an says supporting an infidel system is a great sin."
Taliban fighters are now increasingly using Swat as a base from which to extend their control, moving in force into Buner and Shangla districts and deploying ever closer to the capital, Islamabad. Paramilitary troops sent to Buner were repulsed with casualties this week. A Taliban withdrawal, announced today, is likely to be both tactical and temporary...
Read more @ Guardian CIF
Read more and watch video @ BBC News
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Of what? for whom? Good or bad?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
After my delightful tour of Nangi, while in Islamabad even most of the security personal believe that the so called CIA/raw proxies are fulling this conflict maybe they have become so disillusioned of American progress in defeating the Taliban
“Take Aqeedah from the Salaf, learn Adab from the Tableeghi Jamaat, and brotherhood from the Ikhwaan"
Its the "Muslim Way(TM)" to blame external influences on bad behaviour.
These so called Taliban are bad news. Most are thugs and criminals who decided they needed some legitimacy.
Getting rid of them is a good thing, but exterminating vermin is a tough task - something that can probably never be completed 100%.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
It’s even more endemic for Pakistan to blame India for most of its internal political and social woe’s.
The Pakistani army bombed and killed the son of Maulana Sufi Muhammad.
wasn’t he suppose to be the good guy who the Pakistani army is supporting against the ‘evil’ Taliban
If we believe in the mainstream media news it appears that currently we are in a war like situation in Pakistan. I personally feel that we need to fight and expel the US forces that have invaded our lands, talk with the Pakistani Taliban that why are they fighting against Pakistani troops, and how can we come to a truce and fight the Baatil forces. Cut their supply route and see how they will run inshaAllah. They cannot achieve their goals without the help of Pakistan as rightly quoted by Richard Holbrooke who was also the architect of Balkanizing Yugoslavia, weakening Indonesia and supporting South Vietnamese. Their goal is to crush the Pakistani Army and intelligence agencies by involving them in fights with Taliban and hence de-nuclearize Pakistan and split it along ethnic lines divide and conquer so that they only Ray of hope for Muslims will be extinguished. Allah says the Mafhum of which is “They wish to extinguish the Noor of Allah with their mouths/blows/talks but verily Allah will complete His Noor even if the disbelievers dislike it.” [Chapter 9:32-33]
“Take Aqeedah from the Salaf, learn Adab from the Tableeghi Jamaat, and brotherhood from the Ikhwaan"
I think I read somewhere months ago that the Taliban commander is Sufi Mohammad's nephew.
As for them giving up their fight, not gonna happen. It's not in their ideology to give up, and also the criminal elements thrive in the lawlessness. Its exactly what they want.
As for fighting the "forces of baatil" - that currently is he taliban.
If Pakistan/Afghanistan sort their own houses out (in Afghanistan including peace with some remnants of the taliban - the remnants ones that are not blowing up their own people), America would not matter much IMO.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The enemy here is defined by who is harming Pakistan interest, and not who is really good or bad. Lets cut the proverbial
This is a result of the Lal Masjid/Jamia Hafsah massacre, the Pakistani army making a huge mistake and adding oil to the fire which is burning them?
The Pakistani Army are nothing but a bunch of low paid mercenaries who shift their allegiances towards anybody who pays their wage. They are staunch against the believers such as in 1971 and in Swat but when faced against the kuffar they quiver in fear and run away.
Take the example of the USC- if a force is allowed to mature then its for the greater good.
“Take Aqeedah from the Salaf, learn Adab from the Tableeghi Jamaat, and brotherhood from the Ikhwaan"
USC? what is that?
(I do disagree with you assessment though)
As for Lal Masjid - the guy was challenging the writ of the government in the capital! Can't allow that to go on, especially in the capital. But that event was a big event in a spiral of ever increasing chaos.
There are too many twisted scholars/institutes in Pakistan. They are causing a lot of problems. They are supposed to be producing people of a calibre to guide the lay person, instead they produce the chains to shackle and drag everyone backwards.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
My mistake it's UIC; Union of Islamic Courts
And they are now fighting an intensive war against the Somalian proxy govement who are backed by the aids ridden Ethiopian Zionist
“Take Aqeedah from the Salaf, learn Adab from the Tableeghi Jamaat, and brotherhood from the Ikhwaan"
oh, UIC. Yes, they were good, but were not allowedto do their bit.
However, the UIC is over. It split into two factions - the Shabab, who are not all that pleasant and the rest who are actually now the beleaguered government trying to fight the shabab off.
The ethiopians have left after more or less failing in their task to provide their preferred form of stability.
Sad events where if foreigners (Especially America) did not get involved, things would be much better.
Saying that, its that same chaos that has come and bit the world on its backside in the form of piracy.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Musharaaf is an abomination to Pakistan that is why he left before he was killed, and it was also the suspended judges who challenged Musharaaf iron authority, the only difference is one was an arm struggle- every aspect of Pakistani society is wretchedly corrupt, and any challenges to this corruption is dealt with by any means at its disposbale. I said I was in Pakistan, and Kashmir, and when I visited Faisalabad, like me and the millions of people there we wanted to know what happened to the billions of dollars in aid the government, and military received!
If every think was fair in Pakistan, then the Pakistan Tailban could not justify their cause, as the ordinary Pakistani is not a fool, and he or she can clearly see where the problem is.
“Take Aqeedah from the Salaf, learn Adab from the Tableeghi Jamaat, and brotherhood from the Ikhwaan"
I do not have that much faith in the everday people.
That you do is mashallah a good thing, but personally I do not have that.
Can't just blame the leadership if corruption is endemic.
I think the normal psyche exhibited is twisted and wrong. How else could there be large swathes of people who defend these criminals? Not only that, if given opposing evidence, they ignore it talking of "outside influences".
If the stock market works for them, they enjoy the riches. If it doesn't, smashing up the place is the way to go...
The lawlessness are just one manifestation of the psyche being wrong. there is much more to it.
And protesting to allow the corrupt Sharif brothers back into politics? Only in pakistan would the ordinary person riot to let people plunder the place...
Musharraf was a person - he also did a lot of good things to go with the bad.
I would classify supporting the US as also a good thing he did - the US was initially in the right, Osama's crew in the wrong.
Normal Pakistani's had a dual schizophrenia at the time too - They would big up for stiriking at the heart of America, but when it came to America lashing back, the same people would go "but show us the evidence that OBL was involved!".
Ofcourse he also did a lot of wrong, and some of that comeuppance is here now, haunting the place. On the other hand, the alternative may have been for there to be no place left... so its not that bad.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
There was never such an idea of good relationships between Pakistan and American, a marriage of convenience at its best. Pakistan needs a strong alley in it’s never ending feud with the progressive Indian’s, it needs the American backed IMF international developing loans, it’s needs American arms to strengthen it’s own army, and in return Pakistan has given up it’s sovereignty. When the US indiscriminately bomb villages, and Pakistan grumble’s about it, there isn’t much it can do because the US is at home in Pakistan, and they are not leaving any time too soon. Eight years on, Musharraf political decision are now causing havoc.
And now it’s current leader is pleading for more military aid :roll:
I always said the Taliban will never be defeated nor conquered, such is the strength of their will and resolve, president have come and gone, and yet the Tailabn have proved how strong their own resolves is. This is in Afganistan and there is not such thing as Pakistani Tailban..................................................................
“Take Aqeedah from the Salaf, learn Adab from the Tableeghi Jamaat, and brotherhood from the Ikhwaan"
This is all very interesting. Don't stop please!
Don't just do something! Stand there.
hm... Would it be good if there was an ignore/hide thread button?
Well, it don't exist so nerh!
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Sorry I missed this post, a few correction
Actually Al-shabab is the military wing of UIC much like how Hamas have a civilian wing, and a military wing UIC members are made up local ulema and shaykhs.
Ethiopians task was to remove any hope in decades that the Somilian people had of stability and put the riffraff back into power, the very same elements that the US army try to remove!
Prior to what you may believe, Washington has kept a close eye on UIC and Ethiopian troops, suddenly there is ‘Al Qaeda’ in Somilia:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jan/09/usa
War isn’t design to be hang on a wall and admired it’s a reflection of mans imperfection, May Allah swt grant them just vicotry and may they fight in minhaj of the Prophet
“Take Aqeedah from the Salaf, learn Adab from the Tableeghi Jamaat, and brotherhood from the Ikhwaan"
Not how I read it - the Shabab were a subset of the UIC which broke away and declared takfir on the bits they broke away from (mainly because the UIC leadership had agreed on a peace deal).
No idea what the US and Ethipia were trying to do though as an unstable Somalia can hurt them too - like it is with the new piracy problem in the seas off Somalia.
But it was also western journalists who talked well of the UIC and how thery had restored peace to part of Somalia that had lacked it for over a decade.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
No it's not. It's not the same Taliban. Actually, there was not even a taliban back then! Some people may be the same, but the majority are not.
What has changes is that people realised that a double edged sword cuts both ways.
Besides Afghanistan was screwed before hand anyway - they *invited* the Russians! (just not to the extent that arrived - the majority of forces were rolled in big time after the Russians lost confidence in the Afghan authorities.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Never read that, but if that's the case, it seems ludicrous because that will continue the current chaos. Could it not simply be some people seeding storied?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
What it is that,the taliban has the aim of wiping out innovations llike shrines etc which is evident due to the amount of shrines that have been destroyed in pakistan ..which i think is not so bad as such things like shrine are biddah but thats a completely diferent topic, the other objective is the americans who they want out not only of afghanistan but of having any link with pakistan its there way of fighting america,,,and not to forget the corrupt politics of pakistan and now thy have this nutter Mr 10% zardari leading pakistan to worse scenario case to even more worse situations.and he is so easily persuaded with money which america hav plenty of,,and Mr 'saadaa' nawaz sharif tried to do things peacefully with this guy,,the pakistan peopl tried trusting their beloved 'peoples' party but its lead them to even worse times,,,YES Musharaf was a bad leader and no1 can deny that... but pakistan was not in this bad of a state as it is in today under zardari,,,lookin at this idiot zardari makes u think how low have pakistan politics stooped to allow such a blundering fool to be a so called 'leader'.............when will it end i want the pakistan that evryone loved back...i pray that day comes soon inshAllah
Well, blowing up other Muslims is not a good way to fight America.
As for Nawaz Sharif, he is not a "saada" or an innocent - he has his sins and he was in charge of Pakistan on two occasions. He also filled his own pockets. Rotten to his bones.
Look, if someone pays you to clean up your own house, would you refuse to do so simply because the person paying you may not be the best of people? no. If the place needs cleaning, it needs cleaning.
The "Taliban" are bad news and not only that, they are anti-Islamic in their practices.
As for shrines, there is a difference of opinion. What makes you sure that the Taliban follow the one true way of Islam? If they were doing that (following Islam instead of their own culture), maybe they would also see narcotics as bad?
PS - use more paragraphs and sentences. Makes things easier to read.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I can. I think he is far better than those that came before and those that have/will coime after him.
Sure, he made mistakes, but overall, he did good. IMO.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Sorry firstly bout grammar and para etc im new to forums here lolz challo
Yes but if u look at pre election time before zadari came into politics who was putting acroos the better message i think clearly nawaz was but however many views show that ppls party recievd a gd number of votes due to symphathy for benazir's death.
Now looking at it in todays angle...we have a corrupt leader in office who will hurt many pakistani lives but enrich his own,,if the seperation of powers were active enough they would not even allowed zardari to become president in first place rather hold 10% accountable,,
Now looking at nawam and the work he is doing it has to be said that he is putting in a possitive effort ...and for him filling his pockets aswl..no one is perfect especially politicians taking into account the situation in the uk at the moment
I dont want to say i support ......the..taliban but i wont argue with what there doing,,they are the only force defending pakistan from america and they are being used as an excuse for america to use the border which years ago used to be pretty much open wit hardly and troops in sight,,yet now theres no way in or out of..easily atlleast....
Its sad to see that the day has come where brothers are killing each other,,,and it shows how easily the pakistan army can be persuaded
Ps ...hope that was easier to read
I wonder if there are any non-pakistanis who after the Afghan war settled down into peaceful lives in the region, and how the current fighting is affecting them.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
It seems Pakistan Army cannot win in Swat.
Its time to send in the SWAT TEAMS.
These Wahhabis have to defeated before they take over the country.
They want to Wahhabify the region and then the whole world.
They are unislamic.
In this case, yes.
The peace deal failed and when the enemy is wanting to carry on and take over the rest of the country, it needs to be dealt with.
Saying that, while the situation in swat may have been worse, the underlying ideology is prevalent elsewhere too. It's like the whole moral fibre of the place has been corrupted.
As for international right - there is only international might.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Wahhabi leader in SWAT, Mullah Fazlullah is killed by Paki Army.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=96382§ionid=351020401
If they publically bury him with a few carcasses of swine, do you think it will make his followers think?
From that same link:
I do wonder how these people still can feel legitimacy for their own actions?
Its potentially kufr to go to such extents as not only are they going against clear commandments in the qur'an, but if they justify their actions, they are more or less calling the Qur'an wrong!
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Probably untrue considering they have upped the bounty on him. I doubt that would have been the case was he dead.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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