Destroying Islamic History

MuslimSister —

Developers and purists erase Mecca's history

MECCA, Saudi Arabia (Reuters) - Some of Islam's historic sites in Mecca, possibly including a home of the Prophet Mohammad, are under threat from Saudi real estate developers and Wahhabi Muslims who view them as promoting idolatry.

Sami Angawi, an expert on the region's Islamic architecture, said 1,400-year-old buildings from the early Islamic period risk being demolished to make way for high rise towers for Muslims flocking to perform the annual pilgrimage to Islam's holiest city.

"We are witnessing now the last few moments of the history of Mecca," Angawi told Reuters. "Its layers of history are being bulldozed for a parking lot," he added.

Angawi estimated that over the past 50 years at least 300 historical buildings had been leveled in Mecca and Medina, another Muslim holy city containing the prophet's tomb.

Wahhabism, Saudi Arabia's dominant doctrine which promotes a strict narrow interpretation of Islam, was largely to blame, he said.

"They (Wahhabis) have not allowed preservation of old buildings, especially those related to the prophet. They fear other Muslims will come to see these buildings as blessed and this could lead to polytheism and idolatry."

In London, Geoffrey King, Islamic art and archeology specialist at the School of Oriental and African and Studies, said the fate of Islamic historic sites in Saudi Arabia was "depressing."

"The religious authorities have failed to appreciate the significance of these buildings to Muslims and scholars worldwide," said King, who taught for several years in the kingdom and stressed many young Saudis agreed with him.

Followers of Wahhabism say Muslims should focus on Mecca's Grand Mosque, which contains the Kaaba -- an ancient structure that more than 4 million Muslims visit each year as part of haj and umra pilgrimages.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/saudi_mecca_dc]LINK[/url]

Forum

Beast — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 16:27

1 - Who are these Saudi Jews and Christians?

2 - Where did you hear of them?

3 - How have they been treated like 'crap'? Do you have documentary evidence for this?

Please tell us about them. Cure us of our ignorance.

And, if you wouldn't mind answering my qs directly and in order, that'll be great.

judda — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 16:30

[quote="irfghan"]1 - Who are these Saudi Jews and Christians?

2 - Where did you hear of them?

3 - How have they been treated like 'crap'? Do you have documentary evidence for this?

Please tell us about them. Cure us of our ignorance.

And, if you wouldn't mind answering my qs directly and in order, that'll be great.[/quote]

1. jews and chritians that live and are from a saudi origin.

2. dude some of my friends are

3. they is NOT allowed to practice thier religion, ask any saudi

Beast — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 16:48

[quote="Judda"]
1. jews and chritians that live and are from a saudi origin.
[/quote]

Do they still live in Saudi?

Do they call themselves Saudi Jews, Saudi Christians?

Dave — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 16:55

There are Saudi Christians but they are not allowed to practice and are often cryptochristians.

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=2134
http://www.domini.org/openbook/sau20010719.htm

Apparently the kingdom isn't keen on conversion.

There are two kinds - there are the Christian servants often brought in from the fillipines, there are the remnants of Saudi families that converted under British rule, there are some from back in the day but there are very few of them, and there are converts.

Dave — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 21:34

That's an inappropriate comment for any of the above.

There had better be some sort of apology or at least explanation coming Med.

You — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 21:41

[quote="Constantine"]That's an inappropriate comment for any of the above.

There had better be some sort of apology or at least explanation coming Med.[/quote]

Hah!

It will be a blairite apology.

judda — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:04

[quote="Med"]Peopl like himm should be beaten.[/quote]

which part of;

THERE SHALL BE KNOW COMULSION IN RELIGION

don't u beleive in med?

tell me which part of gods book u believe in and which part u ignore?

med ppl like [i]you[/i] shud be beaten :!:

Medarris — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:07

[quote="Constantine"]

There had better be some sort of apology or at least explanation coming Med.[/quote]

Thats very arrogant of you , dave, to demand an apology or explanation. I'm saying rhetorically maybe literally that the renegade saudi should be beaten. How stupid to turn away from teh true faith to worshipping the cross? I mean he grew up in the heart of islam and wants to worship the cross?

judda — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:26

hey med is u a wahabi too? 😃

[kill the grave worshippers :twisted: ]

Dave — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:29

[quote="Med"][quote="Constantine"]

There had better be some sort of apology or at least explanation coming Med.[/quote]

Thats very arrogant of you , dave, to demand an apology or explanation. I'm saying rhetorically maybe literally that the renegade saudi should be beaten. How stupid to turn away from teh true faith to worshipping the cross? I mean he grew up in the heart of islam and wants to worship the cross?[/quote]

lol oh med, you are an ambassador of your religion.

From you I learn that Islam asks for a bloodbath in Kashmir, a naziesque exportation of all jews in Israel, and the beating of any muslim who finds himself unconvinced of your Prophet's merit.

You are a good teacher Med.

Sirus — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:32

Dave, there isnt a problem with Islam, maybe the muslims today.

but your right, they are ambassadors....and for that reason i sugggest you ignore Judda entirely....and med, well hes a lil wild should we say 🙂

as you can see...many people here hardly agree with the views of these 2 (on all topics in general)

Islam preaches love

judda — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:35

yes ignore judda completely dave

he wants to kill saudi jews and chritians, judda got no love, judda hates them....

judda — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:51

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]Dave, there isnt a problem with Islam[/quote]
that is debatable, depends on what type of islam u r on about, is there nothing wrong with the taliban?

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]maybe the muslims today.
[/quote]

some muslims?

nah most muslims

give me [b]ONE[/b] "Muslim country" that;
1. lives according to the koran
2. does not lower women
3. does not believe in honour killing
4. that believs in religous freedom and don't treat kafir like shit

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]but your right, they are ambassadors[/quote]
who are ambassaders?

if it was up to me ALL muslim countries will live like the west and promote religous freedom

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]and for that reason i sugggest you ignore Judda entirely[/quote]

hand on heart hayder do u believe saudi jews and chritians should be allowed to practice thier religion in peace and build churches and synagouges and be treated like human beings instead of being treated like women?

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]and med, well hes a lil wild should we say 🙂
[/quote]
Dave who is worse me or med?

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]as you can see...many people here hardly agree with the views of these 2 (on all topics in general)
[/quote]

yea i know they don't like "dirt kafir" in muslim countries

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]Islam preaches love[/quote]

what type of islam?

my islam or meds islam?

Sirus — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:54

freak, i have no time to waste with you

theres ONE islam, the one blessed upon is by Allah SWT,completed by the beloved Nabi ﷺ

judda — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 17:58

does that islam promote religous freedom?

is prophet muhammad not a freedom lover?

wud muhammad call me a kafir and tell allah to throw me into hell because i spoke up for the jews and chritians in saudi?

Dave — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 18:00

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]Dave, there isnt a problem with Islam, maybe the muslims today.

but your right, they are ambassadors....and for that reason i sugggest you ignore Judda entirely....and med, well hes a lil wild should we say 🙂

as you can see...many people here hardly agree with the views of these 2 (on all topics in general)

Islam preaches love[/quote]

But they are telling me to ignore you, and many of the members it seems tacitly agree with meds final solution of exporting the jews or having a "victor" in Kashmir.

The best I could extrapolate on the Israel thread was that it's bad to say things like "export all the jews" in the presence of an American, but deep down inside it's not such a terrible idea - your reply so far to meds solution was "dave isn't a zionist" "but I agree with med"

Who am I supposed to believe here?

And if there is some sort of consensus on the rantings than I have some advice - You have to keep your dog on a leash, he's barking too loud and if he bit somebody he might need to be put down.

I am very much on my way out the door, and now this question which I thought was settled months ago pops right back up in my face.

What yall say to me matters - I take this into the classroom and debate my teachers with it, I take it with me to church, I will take it with me to law school, and I will take it with me to Washington again, I am not just passively observing and discarding what you say the minute you say it - I am taking notes, making decisions and arriving at conclusions.

MuslimSisLilSis — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 20:23

[quote="Constantine"] Who am I supposed to believe here?

And if there is some sort of consensus on the rantings than I have some advice - You have to keep your dog on a leash, he's barking too loud and if he bit somebody he might need to be put down.

I am very much on my way out the door, and now this question which I thought was settled months ago pops right back up in my face.

What yall say to me matters - I take this into the classroom and debate my teachers with it, I take it with me to church, I will take it with me to law school, and I will take it with me to Washington again, I am not just passively observing and discarding what you say the minute you say it - I am taking notes, making decisions and arriving at conclusions.[/quote]

Dave i have a lot of respect for u

i dont know exactly what ur arguing about but its obvious that ur taking the views/opinions of the people in the forum who MOST people disagree with-serioulsy for some reason

IF u see people nodding away, bigging up and agreeing with people's posts-THEN u can come to the conclusion that this is what Islam preaches

until then then its wrong for u to reach conlusions based on the ranting of the selected FEW

and btw we live in a country where even the BNP aint banned yet-in other words we're used people being allowed to sprout as much rubbish as they want

u should get used to it to-learn to ignore

MuslimSisLilSis — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 20:29

[quote="Constantine"]lol you are a voice of reason, and I believe I shall take your advice.[/quote]

its common sense dave

people need to have credibility in order for them to be taken seriously

You — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 22:48

To be honest, if someone offered me the 'solution' that all jews would be exported back to where they came, I could jump at it.

However that is not a solution, as the children should not suffer for what their arents did.

The jews that emigrated to Israel to create the state of Israel are all terrorists IMO, as they forced subjugation on another people. Their terrorist actions cannot be justified by actions against other innocent jews. (secondly any adult living in any settlement is also a terrorist, and he is responsible for them.)

I hope I am clear in where I stand, without any hidden thoughts on this issue. (Dave; I know this is not acceptable to yourself and even less so 100, but tough.)

As I have said the perfect solution is the equal vote with a forcing of equal rules for immogration be it jewish, be it exiled Palestinian.

But that will not be acceptable to Israel, or Palestinians. Israel can see the big picture, Palestinians cannot.

Dave — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 22:56

[quote="Admin"]but tough[/quote]

Then stop whining about "one sided" American policy.

As you say - "tough"

Our policy is set by our agenda in reaction to what we are getting from the jews and the muslims in the region. I am tired from people like Med who drivel on and on about how unfair the United States is with our big evil army, and all our money to the poor muslims when the so called "muslim answer" as far as I can determine is "ship em back" (and idea frighteningly enough embraced by more than just med) and all Israelis are terrorists?

It seems like the islamic idea of even handed policy is whatever benefits the palestinians most.

You — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 23:09

They are terrorists. any Israeli in a settlement is currently in the act of subjugation the Palestinian population.

And America's answer IS 'tough!', though with some false promises before and after it.

I have never held the hope that America will try to sort it out. After all the do not have much to gain, and the pres has many votes to lose.

I can whine all I like. :twisted:

Not gonna make a difference. I know that.

As I saod in the other thread, I have stated the even handed policy (everyone has an equal vote in a proportionally represented system), but it will never be implemented. Israel has too much to lose (become a minority in your own country?). Palestinians do not have the vision to put it through.Such a thig will show the similarity between Israel and 1980's apartheid S.A.

Sirus — Tue, 4 Oct 2005 - 23:50

[quote="Constantine"]

The best I could extrapolate on the Israel thread was that it's bad to say things like "export all the jews" in the presence of an American, but deep down inside it's not such a terrible idea - your reply so far to meds solution was "dave isn't a zionist" "but I agree with med"

Who am I supposed to believe here?

What yall say to me matters - I take this into the classroom and debate my teachers with it, I take it with me to church, I will take it with me to law school, and I will take it with me to Washington again, I am not just passively observing and discarding what you say the minute you say it - I am taking notes, making decisions and arriving at conclusions.[/quote]

My bad dave, i apologise.

i will refrain from posting on serious topics coz i dont want what i said bieng quoted, im not an ambassador for islam....nor the best advert for Islam. I'll be the 1st to admit that.

i dont know the Islamic solution to Palestine, but what i said was MY view purely - after what i have seen, i cant helpbut feel the Palestinians are bieng screwed, and i sympathise with them deeply.

and about you bieng a zionist - im sure theyre an extreme sect of Jews, which the last time i checked, ur not. unless theres something im mistaken on, ur a good honest Christian...a rarity in UK if i may say so.

but Judda shud still be ignored, he speaks more from his rear end 🙂

Its Ramadan, i take that back......he needs to grow a lil in his posts b4 he can be taken seriously

judda — Wed, 5 Oct 2005 - 08:52

hayder, lilsis asnwer me this question.

shud saudi christian and jews be allowed to practice thier religion in peace or should they be treated like women?

btw dave told me on pm he is not coming back on the forum so it don't matter if y tell the truth...

Sirus — Wed, 5 Oct 2005 - 09:28

Islam has always allowed people to practice thier religion freely.

there were christians and jews around the time of the Prophet ﷺ and he allowed them to. so, yes

judda — Wed, 5 Oct 2005 - 09:46

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]but Judda shud still be ignored, he speaks more from his rear end 🙂
[/quote]

on pm dave told me i was "enlightening" 😃

and on pm Yuit said i had the intellegence of a 20 year old 😃