Destroying Islamic History

MuslimSister —

Developers and purists erase Mecca's history

MECCA, Saudi Arabia (Reuters) - Some of Islam's historic sites in Mecca, possibly including a home of the Prophet Mohammad, are under threat from Saudi real estate developers and Wahhabi Muslims who view them as promoting idolatry.

Sami Angawi, an expert on the region's Islamic architecture, said 1,400-year-old buildings from the early Islamic period risk being demolished to make way for high rise towers for Muslims flocking to perform the annual pilgrimage to Islam's holiest city.

"We are witnessing now the last few moments of the history of Mecca," Angawi told Reuters. "Its layers of history are being bulldozed for a parking lot," he added.

Angawi estimated that over the past 50 years at least 300 historical buildings had been leveled in Mecca and Medina, another Muslim holy city containing the prophet's tomb.

Wahhabism, Saudi Arabia's dominant doctrine which promotes a strict narrow interpretation of Islam, was largely to blame, he said.

"They (Wahhabis) have not allowed preservation of old buildings, especially those related to the prophet. They fear other Muslims will come to see these buildings as blessed and this could lead to polytheism and idolatry."

In London, Geoffrey King, Islamic art and archeology specialist at the School of Oriental and African and Studies, said the fate of Islamic historic sites in Saudi Arabia was "depressing."

"The religious authorities have failed to appreciate the significance of these buildings to Muslims and scholars worldwide," said King, who taught for several years in the kingdom and stressed many young Saudis agreed with him.

Followers of Wahhabism say Muslims should focus on Mecca's Grand Mosque, which contains the Kaaba -- an ancient structure that more than 4 million Muslims visit each year as part of haj and umra pilgrimages.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/saudi_mecca_dc]LINK[/url]

Forum

Dave — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 18:17

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]was it Oliver Cromwell who started it off? or Henry the 8th or sum1 else?[/quote]

Martin Luther started the Protestant Reformation by nailing 95 things that were messed up with the Catholic Church to the door of his Parish.

Henry the VIII changed the religion of England from Catholocism to CoE which was protestantish (it really became protestant later).

Oliver Cromwell took over the country and his ultra fundamentalist coe religion - puritanism - became the state religion.

Angel — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 18:27

[quote="Constantine"][quote="Darth V-Hayder"]so which churches is it where all the child abusing goes down :shock:[/quote]

Catholic.

Their priests cannot marry (that way they leave all their money to the church when they die).

Thus whackos get attracted[/quote]

So who believes in the pope and he also cannot marry right?

Dave — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 19:00

[quote="angel"][quote="Constantine"][quote="Darth V-Hayder"]so which churches is it where all the child abusing goes down :shock:[/quote]

Catholic.

Their priests cannot marry (that way they leave all their money to the church when they die).

Thus whackos get attracted[/quote]

So who believes in the pope and he also cannot marry right?[/quote]

Perhaps I am misreading your sentance but I don't understand the question...

The Pope cannot marry

Angel — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 19:13

Thats not what i meant, sorry for the confusion...i will re-phrase...Is it the catholics or the protestants that beleive in the pope?

Is the priest and pope kinda the same thing?

So pope cannot marry got that.

Dave — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 19:15

Oh - that's the Catholics.

Protestants for the most part don't have ecclesiastic hierarchies that are doctrinal or dogmatic lords.

There is a Presbyterian bishop - I think - but he doesn't tell us what to believe or excommunicate us when we don't believe it.

The Pope is quite literally the spiritual lord of catholics. He tells them what is the Orthodox way and if you disagree with him you can be excommunicated (kicked out of "christianity").

They have all kinds of weird beliefs about him.

Here is how the Catholic heirarchy works by order of rank

Pope
cardinal
archbishop
bishop
monsignor
priest
deacon

there are various other positions in the intersteces but thats the basic idea

You — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 19:24

[quote="Med"]is it just me or does constantine sound like a girls name?[/quote]

Just you... I think.. anyone else think it sounds like a girls name?

What about you, dave?

:shock:

Dave — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 19:27

It's a guys name. Still pretty common amongst greek families.

It's definitely male, probably indivorcably so due to the man himself who was by all accounts quite a masculan fellow.

lol if you go to York you will find a statue of a very arrogant looking man wearing sandals with lions heads on them, he is fiddling with his sword looking indifferently toward the ground.

That's Constantine.

Definitely a guy.

Angel — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 19:30

Dont sound like a gal just sounds rather odd, its greek like dave said which explains it...talkin of name why have u suddenly become "med"?

Angel — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 19:35

[quote="Constantine"]Prolly cause we call him that for short?

Incidentally Constantine is latin - not greek[/quote]

ooops i thought i read somethin bout the name being greek. ignore me!

Dave — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 - 19:38

He was the Roman Emperor responsible for moving the Capitol to Greece - this was the beginning of the Byzantine Empire which was essentially Greeks pretending to be Romans.

Thus the reason it is so common in Greek culture.

Mujahidah — Mon, 26 Sep 2005 - 10:37

[quote="Constantine"]He was the Roman Emperor responsible for moving the Capitol to Greece - this was the beginning of the Byzantine Empire which was essentially Greeks pretending to be Romans.

Thus the reason it is so common in Greek culture.[/quote]

It is common in need n its 1 of the reasons y i alwayz used 2 hear bout it in skool... :roll: ..n outside round the greeks.

Sirus — Mon, 26 Sep 2005 - 14:28

did you know Constatine offered his daughter to be married to (ive forgotten now, but it was the prophet's father or grandfather or great grandfather) because he read the Injil (Old Testament) and knew that the Propher (PBUH) was to come and he basically wanted to be connected by blood to the beloved Prophet

his offer was refused tho, as all the sons ever since Adam (AS) were told to marry good pure and virtous women.

Dave — Tue, 27 Sep 2005 - 00:17

[quote="Darth V-Hayder"]did you know Constatine offered his daughter to be married to (ive forgotten now, but it was the prophet's father or grandfather or great grandfather) because he read the Injil (Old Testament) and knew that the Propher (PBUH) was to come and he basically wanted to be connected by blood to the beloved Prophet

his offer was refused tho, as all the sons ever since Adam (AS) were told to marry good pure and virtous women.[/quote]

lol a couple things,

Considering the man died about 300 years before Muhammad was alive, the fact that he was a Christian that fully and publicly testified to Christ's divinity, and that neither of his daughters were offered out of the royal line:

http://www.roman-emperors.org/constan.htm
http://www.roman-emperors.org/helen1.htm

I find that a bit of a dubious clame. Sounds like some sort of Turk propaganda to keep the conquered byzantines quiet.

Who told you that?

also - the injil are the Gospels, the tawrat and zabur are the Old Testament

judda — Tue, 27 Sep 2005 - 09:14

since this thread is off the topic i thought i'd post here coz there is no point creating another thread (i create too many threads :oops: ).

I was discussing this in the islamic centre yesterday (may i just say it resulted in a fight....[ooooops.....me and my big gob!]). The fact that saudi chritians and jews r not allowed to build churches and synagougs and practice thier religion in peace.

My argument was that god said there is no compulsion in religion and that it is a sin to stop them and god would not approve of stopping them. There were some ppl that disagreed with me. Anything i said was backed up by the koran and anything they said was just thier own ignorent opinion.

sum1 called me "the devil in personification" which i found ironic because his ignorence was a result in listoning to the devil and ignoring god and the koran. It is intersting to note that the koran says that muhammed will complain to god on the day of reckoning that his ummah has turned thier backs on the koran (there is even a large muslim sect in afghanistan which even rejects the koran).

So I wanted ur opnion guys should saudi chritians and jews be allowed to build churches and synagouges and practice thier religion in peace?

btw guys exactly how do u feel that the wabz r trying to stop u guys from committing shirk? Imagine they took it a step further and stopped u from performing hajj/umra, with all the shirk its gonna be nullified anyway.

I would be interested in hearing all ur opnions. lets hope this discussion is not like the one i had in the islamic centre yesterday :?

Sirus — Tue, 27 Sep 2005 - 10:43

[quote="Constantine"][quote="Darth V-Hayder"]did you know Constatine offered his daughter to be married to (ive forgotten now, but it was the prophet's father or grandfather or great grandfather) because he read the Injil (Old Testament) and knew that the Propher (PBUH) was to come and he basically wanted to be connected by blood to the beloved Prophet

his offer was refused tho, as all the sons ever since Adam (AS) were told to marry good pure and virtous women.[/quote]

lol a couple things,

Considering the man died about 300 years before Muhammad was alive, the fact that he was a Christian that fully and publicly testified to Christ's divinity, and that neither of his daughters were offered out of the royal line:

http://www.roman-emperors.org/constan.htm
http://www.roman-emperors.org/helen1.htm

I find that a bit of a dubious clame. Sounds like some sort of Turk propaganda to keep the conquered byzantines quiet.

Who told you that?

also - the injil are the Gospels, the tawrat and zabur are the Old Testament[/quote]

my mates got the book, but i swear its along those lines

Sirus — Wed, 28 Sep 2005 - 19:10

it was the life of the Prophet (seerah)

it also included before it went into the life.....how the world was created and details of the other Prophets, there sons, and history of the world basically., where i came across that thing about Constantine.

the Author is Hajjah Aminah Adil, wife of a Shaykh

judda — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 09:16

[quote="MuslimSister"]The Holy Qur'an says that you should "obey Allah and His Messenger". We are also told in the Qur'an that "Anyone who has obeyed the Messenger has obeyed Allah".

But feel free to dismiss the "garbage" in the hadiths and ignore the divine commandments in the Holy Qur'an.
[/quote]

ur quick to ramble on about "destroying islamic history" but when it comes to saudi jews and chritians not being allowed to practice thier religion u somehow think it is acceptable don't u?

Muhammad said let them practice thier religion, so do i, i have obeyed muhammad thus i have obeyed god.

muhammad never commited shirk and he DID fear shirk from his ummah. if u don't want islamic histroy destroyed don't commit shirk! END OF.

MuslimSisLilSis — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 09:42

[quote="Judda"][quote="MuslimSister"]The Holy Qur'an says that you should "obey Allah and His Messenger". We are also told in the Qur'an that "Anyone who has obeyed the Messenger has obeyed Allah".

But feel free to dismiss the "garbage" in the hadiths and ignore the divine commandments in the Holy Qur'an.
[/quote]

ur quick to ramble on about "destroying islamic history" but when it comes to saudi jews and chritians not being allowed to practice thier religion u somehow think it is acceptable don't u?

.[/quote]

when did she say that?

who said they shouldnt be allowed to practise their religion?

judda — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 09:48

i asked u a q

u never answered it

i mentioned this sevaral times b4

but ur quick to ramble on about saudis destroying islamic histroy

i guess if they go ahead with it u will know how they feel!

n e way despite the shirk they aint stopping u from performing hajj/umra so whats ur problem?

You — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 11:19

If I went to your house and removed the roof and two walls, but allowed you to live there, is that acceptable?

judda — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 11:24

if u were a jew or a chritian and i took away ur house COMPLETELY would that be acceptable?

wud u not argue that u have a right to live there?

wud it bother u that a bunch of grave worshippers are only having the roof and two walls removed instead of the whole bloody house?

:?:

don't commit shirk and it won't happen, god willing.

Medarris — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 11:28

What is this guy on?

Saudi jews and saudi christians? I would be highly surprised if any person from one of the original saudi tribes is either a xian or a jew. A saudi by marriage might be, but I dont know about saudis who are natural saudis.

What is he talking about, has he got some kind of mental retardation or what? I think he needs medical attention but I aint interested in offering it.

judda — Mon, 3 Oct 2005 - 11:37

[quote="Med"]What is this guy on?

Saudi jews and saudi christians? I would be highly surprised if any person from one of the original saudi tribes is either a xian or a jew. A saudi by marriage might be, but I dont know about saudis who are natural saudis.

What is he talking about, has he got some kind of mental retardation or what? I think he needs medical attention but I aint interested in offering it.[/quote]

no mate u need it

saudi jews and chritians DO EXIST, surprisingly most non-saudis are unawear of it, can't understand y coz there are plenty of them. Not everyone is saudi is a muslim y'know.

they do not desearve to be treated like crap and they do have a right to practice thier religion like the koran says they shud be allowed.

do u only partially believe in the koran?