Salam

Its now twenty days since the Gaza war began on December 27, 2008.

Hamas says it is winning the war.

Israel says it is achieving its military goals.

I suppose we would have to wait until its over to see who was bullshitting.

Omrow

'More than 1,000 killed in Gaza'

Palestinian deaths in the Gaza Strip have passed 1,000, medical sources in Gaza say, as diplomatic efforts continue to reach a ceasefire.

Nearly a third of the dead are reported to be children and nearly 5,000 people have been injured.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon said he wanted to find a durable and sustainable ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian fighters.

But clashes were reported to intensify as Mr Ban began a Middle East tour.

The Ministry of Health in Gaza said 1,010 people have died in the conflict which started 19 days ago.

More than 300 of the dead are said to be children and about 4,700 people in Gaza have been injured.

Thirteen Israelis have been killed, including three civilians and one soldier from rockets fired from Gaza and nine soldiers killed in fighting in Gaza.

It is impossible to independently confirm casualty figures as Israel has refused to allow international journalists to enter Gaza.

Read more @ BBC News

The International Community needs to step up it's pressure.

The Lamp wrote:

The International Community needs to step up it's pressure.

I think the international community has got bored...

Gaza pounded amid push for truce

Israeli tanks have pushed deep into Gaza City, prompting fierce exchanges of gunfire with fighters of the Palestinian militant group Hamas.

The UN's relief agency, Unrwa, says part of its HQ in the city is on fire after being shelled by the Israelis.

Diplomatic efforts to reach a truce continue, with Israel's head negotiator due in Cairo to discuss an Egyptian ceasefire plan.

Hamas said the talks had made progress, but did not elaborate.

Speaking to reporters on the Israel-Gaza border, Unrwa spokesman Christopher Gunness said three of the agency's employees were hurt after the compound was hit.

He said the agency would not be able to distribute food or medical supplies on Thursday as its trucks have been unable to leave the compound.

Escalation

Israeli military officials say they attacked 70 military targets overnight, including a mosque they say was being used to store weapons.

The BBC's Hamada Abu Qammar in Gaza says the coastal enclave has come under extremely heavy artillery fire from the east, and the skies are full of thick smoke...

Read more @ BBC News

The Guardian report on this same incident says that the shells were probably white phosphorous. Basically, that means that Israel is using chemical warfare...

You wrote:

The Lamp wrote:

The International Community needs to step up it's pressure.

I think the international community has got bored...

I think it's scared.

'A dark fog has enveloped us'

When a rocket killed his mother-in-law in Israel, actor Paul Kaye was appalled by the celebrations in Gaza. Six months on, he feels a different kind of despair

I had to hold my 17-year-old son down on the bed after he heard the news. His strength really shocked me. I was gripping his upper arms as tightly as I could to hold him flat on the bed, but he was spitting with rage, tears streaming down his face. I was shouting, "Stop! Please stop!" but he was pushing up at me hard, his face twisting like his body underneath me. He was fighting with everything he had in order to be able to get up, run down the stairs and get out of the house. All I knew at that moment was that I couldn't let him leave. We were in his bedroom in London and I had just given him the news that his grandmother had been blown to pieces by a rocket in Israel. Jordy had lost his other grandmother five months earlier to cancer. This time there was someone to blame.

Our pain and his rage opened a window up for me on to what is happening in Gaza. There are thousands and thousands of young men who have experienced - or are experiencing - that rage in Gaza and the West Bank, and their fathers and grandfathers have no doubt experienced it too. When I heard in the days that followed Shuli's death that they handed out sweets in Gaza to celebrate the fact that the rocket had hit a target, I was appalled. Now with all I have seen over the last two weeks in Gaza, part of me feels: why wouldn't they celebrate? ...

Read more @ The Guardian

For the people who don't know anything about the Pro-Israel Rally which happened recently in London, anti-war protestors were attacked by them.

Here's a short video of them in NYC:

">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo]

MuslimBro wrote:

For the people who don't know anything about the Pro-Israel Rally which happened recently in London, anti-war protestors were attacked by them.

Here's a short video of them in NYC: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo

First off, "What do we want? er...Mashiah!" lol.

Second, there was this woman a 1:51 comparing Hamas to a cancer and saying that you have to burn it out. But the truly scary thing she said was "When people don't wanna talk and just wanna destroy you and not allow you to live, there's only one thing you can do." Which is a fair sounding argument for sending out the troops but...

...She seemed like a mother in her late 40's and said the above sentance with what sounded like defeated dejection. And what struck me is that these are the EXACT SAME SENTIMENTS of 40 year old Muslim mothers (and obviously Hamas). Isn't that scary? Sympathisers of the IDF and Hamas both feel that this is their argument:

When people don't wanna talk and just wanna destroy you and not allow you to live, there's only one thing you can do."

Gaza hospital comes under fire

The UN says Israeli shells struck three hospitals on Thursday, including al-Quds

The medical director of al-Quds hospital has not wept since he helped evacuate several hundred people from the blazing Palestinian Red Crescent (PRC) compound on Thursday night, but he says: "My heart is crying."

He says he is standing next to the smouldering remains of a pharmacy filled with bandages, medicines and other medical supplies, describing the chaos as intensive care patients and premature babies were wheeled onto the street.

The compound was hit twice during heavy fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas militants in the Tel al-Hawa district in the west of Gaza City...

Read more @ BBC News

MuslimBro wrote:

For the people who don't know anything about the Pro-Israel Rally which happened recently in London, anti-war protestors were attacked by them.

Here's a short video of them in NYC: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo

[/quote]

I wish i was there to throw my shoes in their fat jewish faces

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

A must read, remarkable article written by Avi Shlaim (jewish prefessor at oxford uni)

valorous_warrior wrote:

I wish i was there to throw my shoes in their fat jewish faces

Racism is not a nice thing.

I would like to think we can be better than that.

I regret missing the Gaza protest

Marching against Israel may be outside my comfort zone, but for peace in the Middle East we must all walk side by side

I didn't go to last weekend's demonstration against the catastrophe in
Gaza. Too much to do at home and kids to be ferried. But if I'm being
honest there was also a certain reluctance. I know what I want: an end to the Israeli air force's brutal bombing campaign, an end to the murder of Palestinian civilians, and an end to the cynical Hamas rocket attacks. I want Israelis and Palestinians to be able to live in peace – not a conqueror's peace imposed by Israel, or the Hamas pipe dream of an Islamic state "from the river to the sea", but a just peace in which, however gradually, Jews and Arabs grant one another the dignity and humanity they give their own kind. As a Jew, I felt uncomfortable about Saturday's march for many of the same reasons as Sunny Hundal. But the thought of marching on Sunday just to declare my opposition to other Jews marching in support of Israel seemed both futile and depressing. And it was an awfully cold weekend.

Still, I'm beginning to feel I missed something. Our whole family marched in the big anti-war demonstrations in 2002 and 2003, and sometimes those were a little uncomfortable.

I remember writing privately to the leaders of Stop the War expressing
discomfort over signs equating the Star of David with the swastika and headbands glorifying suicide bombing, and getting an extremely hostile (and self-righteous) response for my trouble. Which didn't stop me from turning out on the streets.

If anything, the Palestinian people are even more battered, more long-suffering, and more desperate than the people of Iraq. Perhaps it's time to offer up the beam in my own eye, the fact that although I didn't let the vocal but minuscule antisemitic minority deter me from trying to keep the United States and Britain from going to war in Iraq, the idea of marching against Israel – even an Israel engaged in what I believe to be acts of criminal stupidity – is a lot further outside my comfort zone...

Read more @ The Guardian

I tempered any supposed guilt by sticking a few vids on the site...

You wrote:

valorous_warrior wrote:

I wish i was there to throw my shoes in their fat jewish faces

Racism is not a nice thing.

I would like to think we can be better than that.

I agree

my angry sentiments are not agaisnt any one race or people or religion jus on ones supporting israels actions..id eqaully throw my shoes at any pakistani, american or eskimoes persons fat face if they were saying such stupid things at such a rally

Israel TV news broadcasts a Gaza father's heartbreak

Dr. Izz el-Deen Aboul Aish, who gave frequent interviews to the Israeli media, was minutes away from giving another when he called newscaster Shlomi Eldar, screaming and weeping with grief.

">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sUh6xVlndhM]

sraeli TV broadcast a father's heartbreak Friday night when a Palestinian doctor living in Gaza made a frantic phone call to a newscaster saying an Israeli tank had shelled his home, killing three of his daughters and injuring other family members.

Izz el-Deen Aboul Aish, who speaks Hebrew, worked as a gynecologist in an Israeli hospital. Even as the crossings between the Gaza Strip and Israel had largely been closed in recent months, he had traveled frequently from one place to the other. But he had remained in Gaza since the Israeli offensive began 21 days ago. He gave frequent interviews to the Israeli media on living conditions in the seaside enclave. He spoke of having tanks around his house and of passing through checkpoints; he told Israelis what it was like to be Palestinian.

Minutes away from a scheduled phone interview on Israeli TV 10 with newscaster Shlomi Eldar, Aboul Aish called Eldar's cellphone, screaming and weeping in Arabic and Hebrew. The doctor's home had been struck by a shell:

"Oh God, oh my God, my daughters have been killed. They've killed my children. . . . Could somebody please come to us?"

Sitting at his news desk for one of Israel's main evening news broadcasts, Eldar held his phone up. For three minutes and 26 seconds, Aboul Aish's wailing was broadcast across the country.

Eldar welled up. He put his head down. He looked at the camera. He looked at his phone. He made pleas for helpfor the family, but the doctor kept crying, his voice scratchy, like sand on paper, until Eldar took out his earpiece and walked off the set to try to arrange for help. The newscaster's bewildered face seemed to capture a bit of pause in a nation that has largely supported its military campaign and prefers not to question its course...

Read more @ LA Times

Inna lillah wa inna ilaihi raji'oon. That anguish is multiplied a thousand times across Gaza.

Hamas announces ceasefire in Gaza

The Palestinian militant group Hamas has announced an immediate ceasefire with Israel in Gaza, according to Hamas officials.

The group said it would hold fire for one week so long as Israel withdrew all its forces from the Gaza Strip.

The move comes hours after a unilateral Israeli ceasefire came into effect.

The cessation of hostilities was put under strain by fresh rocket fire into Israel and an Israeli air strike on militants in Gaza.

Hamas official Ayman Taha told the BBC that the ceasefire also applied to other militant groups. ...

Read more @ BBC News

Gunfire ends but the debate in Israel begins: should we have pressed on?

Broad public support for assault on Gaza Strip leaves some Israelis believing the ceasefire is a mistake

Talk of victory was scant in Israel today after the government's declaration of a unilateral ceasefire in Gaza. "The decision was terrible," said Shimon, a 55-year-old from Ra'anana, a town in Israel's interior. "We should carry on fighting until Hamas is devastated."

Overwhelmingly, the Israeli Jewish public supports the country's assault on Gaza. But while the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, described the three-week war as a "brilliant" achievement of Israel's objectives, the public does not seem as certain. "I hope we will succeed in halting the rockets, but I think the ceasefire was a little premature," said Avot Yitzhak, 48, from Tel Aviv. "They should have continued, to show [Hamas] that they really have lost."

Some people expressed ambivalence, best articulated by one presenter on Israeli Army Radio who said: "Did we achieve our objectives? Who knows, but let's thank God it's over."

There is also talk of a missed opportunity. "There is a broad consensus in support of the war and the public is prepared to put up with this situation for as long as it takes," said a 42-year-old man from Kiryat Shmona in the north of Israel. "How often does that happen?"

And as rockets from Gaza hit southern Israel this morning before Hamas declared its own ceasefire, local residents denounced the end to the offensive as illogical. "If I am still getting Qassam rockets fired at me, what have we achieved?" asked Hava Gad, a 42-year-old mother of three in Sderot. "We stopped because the whole world is shouting at us to stop, and the government crumpled." ...

Read more @ The Guardian

The ceasefire does indicate to me that my initial thought that the attack was political in nature is true.

There was no purpose to the military action other than maybe a few votes here and there or to punish the Gazan's and show them that they can be hurt badly - similar to previous broken bone strategies.

wednesday wrote:

could it possibly have more than one purpose?

Yes - but the only other other reason I can think of would be to free corporal Gilad Shalit. If that had been the case, we would have heard of it by now.

Maybe I am just thick, but the reason they gave - to stop rocket fire - well, that never worked. There were 20 fired after the Israeli unilateral ceasefire Before Hamas decided to join it.

Israel has no need for that.

America on the other hand does have a need for a smooth inauguration ceremony. The conflict was always designed to end before then. and it bought some of the parties in SIrael some extra votes in the upcoming elections.

Win win.

The European leaders had travelled to Israel to lend their support to the ceasefires.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the opening of the crossings into Gaza was important to "make possible a resumption of the talks that are necessary for a permanent peace".

Yay.

You wrote:

Israel TV news broadcasts a Gaza father's heartbreak

From that link:

[Shlomi] Eldar said of Aboul Aish: "It is simply surreal. He is part of this place yet not of it, belonging and not belonging."

How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe

Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions

The only way to make sense of Israel's senseless war in Gaza is through understanding the historical context. Establishing the state of Israel in May 1948 involved a monumental injustice to the Palestinians. British officials bitterly resented American partisanship on behalf of the infant state. On 2 June 1948, Sir John Troutbeck wrote to the foreign secretary, Ernest Bevin, that the Americans were responsible for the creation of a gangster state headed by "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". I used to think that this judgment was too harsh but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza, and the Bush administration's complicity in this assault, have reopened the question...

Read more @ The Guardian

A very good read IMO - one that analyses the arguments for the current conflict and shows them for what they are.

wednesday wrote:

we were talking about Nationalism/tribalism/race/caste system and etc etc and seeing how they could be wrong and stuff... And the tutor kept linking Egyptian defiance to open up borders to allow Palestinians in for aid and stuff because apparently as Muslims we should all stick and defend each other...?

While I agree with the bold text, I don't think that Nationalism/tribalism/race/caste system is behind it.

its more to do with Husni Mubarak being an American pawn. The general population in Egypt are up in arms... or at least they would be if it wasn't such a repressive state.

We should stick up for and try to defend what is right ("supporting your people in something that is wrong" is the definition of Nationalism of Islam and that is not allowed. Note that you ARE allowed to support your people in something that is NOT wrong.), but getting Egypt pummelled too would not really achieve anything.

You wrote:

We should stick up for and try to defend what is right ("supporting your people in something that is wrong" is the definition of Nationalism of Islam and that is not allowed. Note that you ARE allowed to support your people in something that is NOT wrong.), but getting Egypt pummelled too would not really achieve anything.

Would that happen though?

I mean by at least making the token gesture of ejecting the Israeli consulate or something?

Ya'qub wrote:

You wrote:

We should stick up for and try to defend what is right ("supporting your people in something that is wrong" is the definition of Nationalism of Islam and that is not allowed. Note that you ARE allowed to support your people in something that is NOT wrong.), but getting Egypt pummelled too would not really achieve anything.

Would that happen though?

I mean by at least making the token gesture of ejecting the Israeli consulate or something?

donkey lamubarak needs swatting

Shall we make Israel the next Denmark?