Forced to marry

Im not trying to ignore the issue of forced marriages. Honestly hand on heart i have not come across many cases of forced marriages but rather emotional blackmail marriages which is different (consent is present).

But is the latter not also wrong?

Saying that, I see the solution offered in the documentary as workable for a large part of the problem. Criminalising forced marriages will give the parents pause for thought, and also the kids who use it to falsely get government help/housing.

Ofcourse it could backfire and drive the proctice into murkier waters where the victims have less options.

On the other hand I do think early marriage (not as early as some do it though) is important in a well functioning Muslim society/community.

[quote=You]But is the latter not also wrong? [/quote]

Of course it is but what can you do? If you dont agree your being disrespectful. If you do then your in a unhappy marriage and it the kids that will suffer the most.

[quote] Criminalising forced marriages will give the parents pause for thought, and also the kids who use it to falsely get government help/housing. [/quote]

In agreement

[quote=You]On the other hand I do think early marriage (not as early as some do it though) is important in a well functioning Muslim society/community.[/quote]

In agreement.

since they do accept under some duress, technically they agreed. and its still wrong.

True. but will it be abandoned with the passing of time? or will there be other ills that are discovered/favoured?

Emotional blackmail marriages are, de facto, forced marriages. Forcing someone to say that they agree is still forcing them, like it or not.
If some people forcibly marry someone in the name of religion, that doesn't mean the religion agrees with it. I can kill people in your name but that doesn't mean you agree with me.

^^^ no its not. In a forced marriage you dont have a chocie in the matter. In a emotional blackmail marriage there is choice (disrespect your parents or be unhappy for the rest of your life). Some ppl, no matter how hard you try will never give into emotional blackmail while others will.

^^^ no its not. In a forced marriage you dont have a chocie in the matter.

I am in two minds about this.

On the one hand the person does agree under duress... on the other hand there was no physical threat of violence.

and sometimes kids are just too scared to talk straight to their parents so they may not even know the kid is feeling pressured.

On the other hand if the pressure is monetary (I know a person who has promised £5k. The moron ruined another persons life afterwards... but this is also another disease in the Pakistani community where divorcees do not get a fair deal), the kid is to blame all the way for letting the greed overcome him/her.

On a similar topic:

Area Man Feeds Own Self

Money can become a greed for some ppl. No matter how much they have its just never enough for them.when money consumes a person

I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say i am glad that im poor.

[quote=The Lamp]I mean people who come to see you in the Bureau. Surely you're trained to give them the benefit of the doubt?[/quote]

If and when you start working at your local bureau you will know what im talking about.

Initially when i started i was gullible and naive. I put a lot of trust in my clients, whatever they told me i believed them. Its only when i investigated further and rang other agencies that i found out sometimes the client had omitted or lied about something. How stupid does that make me look in front of another agency? Some of them even when they have been ratted out will continue to lie, serious no joke. As an advisor you are giving advice on what they have told you. If they have told you something which is not true then your advice will be incorrect thus leading to a potential negligent advice claim. (if a client continues to lie you can still advice on the info they have given you but you cover yourself by saying that the advice i give you is based on the info you have given me. If you act on this advice and it backfires we are not to blame as you have failed to tell us the full story).

Im not saying ALL clients are like that but you get the odd few that take you for a ride.

If a client is upfront and truthful with me then i will go out of my way and help them but if they lie then i will do the bare minimum.

[quote=Naz]^^^ no its not. In a forced marriage you dont have a chocie in the matter. In a emotional blackmail marriage there is choice (disrespect your parents or be unhappy for the rest of your life). Some ppl, no matter how hard you try will never give into emotional blackmail while others will. [/quote]

You always have the option to run away or get help, before it gets to that stage. In practice, emotional blackmail are the same as forced marriages. Even in forced marriages some will succeed in running away before it gets to the crucial stage.

They live in a world that is different from now.

Their understandings of the world are derived from a different age. All we can do is accept them for who they are.

[quote=The Lamp][quote=Naz]^^^ no its not. In a forced marriage you dont have a chocie in the matter. In a emotional blackmail marriage there is choice (disrespect your parents or be unhappy for the rest of your life). Some ppl, no matter how hard you try will never give into emotional blackmail while others will. [/quote]

You always have the option to run away or get help, before it gets to that stage. In practice, emotional blackmail are the same as forced marriages. Even in forced marriages some will succeed in running away before it gets to the crucial stage.[/quote]

No no no lampy youve got it all wrong. Emotional blackmail marriages are not the same as forced marriages. Explain to me further how they are? Coz i aint seeing it. The only thing that they have in common are that they are both not allowed in Islam. Running away is not an option. Running is for cowards. A real person faces up to their problems and tries to find solutions.

'Forced marriage' doctor is freed

[quote=Naz][quote=The Lamp][quote=Naz]^^^ no its not. In a forced marriage you dont have a chocie in the matter. In a emotional blackmail marriage there is choice (disrespect your parents or be unhappy for the rest of your life). Some ppl, no matter how hard you try will never give into emotional blackmail while others will. [/quote]

You always have the option to run away or get help, before it gets to that stage. In practice, emotional blackmail are the same as forced marriages. Even in forced marriages some will succeed in running away before it gets to the crucial stage.[/quote]

No no no lampy youve got it all wrong. Emotional blackmail marriages are not the same as forced marriages. Explain to me further how they are? Coz i aint seeing it. The only thing that they have in common are that they are both not allowed in Islam. Running away is not an option. Running is for cowards. A real person faces up to their problems and tries to find solutions.
[/quote]

Why is running away only for cowards? You really think that, evenif it can save someone's life? Have you ever thought that SOMETIMES to save your life and escape might be the solution.
Aren't both forced and Blackmail marriages pushed on the individual, against their will. The only difference is that one is forced more physically, while the other is forced more emotionally. Apart from that what's the difference? You tell me.

Because if you run you will be running for the rest of your life. Say for example a husband is being beaten by his wife. If he runs away whats that going to achieve? Nothing, he will forever remain fearful of women and his wife could (after divorcing her 1st husband) marry another man and do exactly same thing him. If the husband remained with his beating wife and did not stand up to her then chances are she will continue to beat him for the rest of his miserable life, she might even end up killing him. However if he stood up to his wife then she will think twice about laying a finger on him. It cant be easy standing up to someone you fear but if you dont you will never be able to get a hold/control of your own life nor will you ever have any confidence in anything you do.

The emotional blackmail v forced marriage issue you can see for yourself in practice.
Now i know you dont watch bollys nor do i for the record nor would i encourage anyone to as they are overly cheesy and chat utter nonsense BUT i think we can make an exception in this case. Watch rab ni bana de jodi,(actually more like analyse the first 15/20mins of it). Pay particular attention to what her dying fathers wish is. I think because of the increase in emotional blackmail marriage the director has decided to raise this issue. As for the forced marriage issue give me couple days to find something to highlight that.

[quote=Omrow]Salam

I want a person who is not a muslim to tell me what is a forced marriage.

Omrow

[/quote]

I am actually go about to find out this piece of information! Iv talked to nonmuslims about forced marriages but it never occured to me to find out what they think it is..

[quote=wednesday]Naz the example that you gave was applied to AFTER marriage... and I thought we were discussing Parents VS. children and not Husband VS. Wife! Totally different planes/ levels!

(Altho it did make me laugh at some point!)[/quote]

Oh Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday you have been long enough on this forum to know that we always go off topic. Its not possible (even if we tried) to stick to the actual topic.

ps I was trying to give lampy an example of what being a coward entails. Its the first example that came in my head.

To be fair, she arrived after my heydays of derailing every topic.

I had a "record" of going off topic in the first sentence of the topic... beat that!

[quote=wednesday]Naz, apology accepted 😛 😃

You, WHAT?!? (ie what you on abt man?)[/quote]

😂

[quote=Naz][quote=wednesday]Naz the example that you gave was applied to AFTER marriage... and I thought we were discussing Parents VS. children and not Husband VS. Wife! Totally different planes/ levels!

(Altho it did make me laugh at some point!)[/quote]

Oh Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday you have been long enough on this forum to know that we always go off topic. Its not possible (even if we tried) to stick to the actual topic.

ps I was trying to give lampy an example of what being a coward entails. Its the first example that came in my head.
[/quote]

Leaving that marriage after trying for reconciliation isn't really cowardice, mate.
Real cowardice is moral, social and emotional cowardice.

[quote=The Lamp][quote=Naz][quote=wednesday]Naz the example that you gave was applied to AFTER marriage... and I thought we were discussing Parents VS. children and not Husband VS. Wife! Totally different planes/ levels!

(Altho it did make me laugh at some point!)[/quote]

Oh Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday you have been long enough on this forum to know that we always go off topic. Its not possible (even if we tried) to stick to the actual topic.

ps I was trying to give lampy an example of what being a coward entails. Its the first example that came in my head.
[/quote]

Leaving that marriage after trying for reconciliation isn't really cowardice, mate.
Real cowardice is moral, social and emotional cowardice.[/quote]

You have misunderstood what i have said. I wasnt talking about reconciliation but rather standing up to the abuser (act of bravery) instead of running away (trait of a coward).

[quote=Naz*][quote=The Lamp][quote=Naz][quote=wednesday]Naz the example that you gave was applied to AFTER marriage... and I thought we were discussing Parents VS. children and not Husband VS. Wife! Totally different planes/ levels!

(Altho it did make me laugh at some point!)[/quote]

Oh Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday you have been long enough on this forum to know that we always go off topic. Its not possible (even if we tried) to stick to the actual topic.

ps I was trying to give lampy an example of what being a coward entails. Its the first example that came in my head.
[/quote]

Leaving that marriage after trying for reconciliation isn't really cowardice, mate.
Real cowardice is moral, social and emotional cowardice.[/quote]

You have misunderstood what i have said. I wasnt talking about reconciliation but rather standing up to the abuser (act of bravery) instead of running away (trait of a coward).
[/quote]

OK, how do you stand up? Fight back? Try and talk to them? Can you do either if you're being forced into a marriage?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7791653.stm