Too lost to be saved...

Seraphim —

Was just wondering. At what point, if any, is someone too lost to be saved from hell fire?

You must really be the worst of the worst right?

Forum

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 21:36

[quote=Funzo][quote=Young Anonymous Muslimah][quote=Seraphim]What confuses me, is that alot of the time you think "fantastic, Allah (swt) has made sooo many ways and excuses to get us into heaven. That its gotta be a sure deal."
but then there are times when it appears that even the littlest of things can stop you from getting in.

Does that seem fair to you?[/quote]

yes, its all about perspective, but sometimes its exactly that, that throws me. It feels like its contradictory...? :? [/quote]
it seems contradictory because we assume we deserve a chance of heaven and just the chance of us going to hell seems unfair when in reality its unfair were allowed to go to heaven.[/quote]

Yeah what he said.

Funzo — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 21:36

Thats why i love this forum because too many discussions like this would make it boring not enough would make it dull.

Noor — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 21:37

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim]What confuses me, is that alot of the time you think "fantastic, Allah (swt) has made sooo many ways and excuses to get us into heaven. That its gotta be a sure deal."
but then there are times when it appears that even the littlest of things can stop you from getting in.

Does that seem fair to you?[/quote]

yes. [/quote]

Do you care to elaborate?[/quote]

not really...

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 21:38

[quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim][quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim]What confuses me, is that alot of the time you think "fantastic, Allah (swt) has made sooo many ways and excuses to get us into heaven. That its gotta be a sure deal."
but then there are times when it appears that even the littlest of things can stop you from getting in.

Does that seem fair to you?[/quote]

yes. [/quote]

Do you care to elaborate?[/quote]

not really...[/quote]

Do it anyway lol.

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 21:53

[quote=Noor]no. it'll get me thinking and when i start thinking i don't stop[/quote]

Aaaawwww, poor noory 😢
There there. You dont hav to if you dont want to.
Your such a good lil girl... yes you are... yes you are... there you go... good girl... good girl.

Noor — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 21:57

[quote=Seraphim][quote=Noor]no. it'll get me thinking and when i start thinking i don't stop[/quote]

Aaaawwww, poor noory 😢
There there. You dont hav to if you dont want to.
Your such a good lil girl... yes you are... yes you are... there you go... good girl... good girl.[/quote]

you're so annoying, did you know that? well you do now.

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 21:58

[quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim][quote=Noor]no. it'll get me thinking and when i start thinking i don't stop[/quote]

Aaaawwww, poor noory 😢
There there. You dont hav to if you dont want to.
Your such a good lil girl... yes you are... yes you are... there you go... good girl... good girl.[/quote]

you're so annoying, did you know that? well you do now.[/quote]

LOL, sorry.... cant help it.

cant exactly turn it off.

but for you, i will turn it down a lil.

Funzo — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 21:59

[quote=Noor][quote=Seraphim][quote=Noor]no. it'll get me thinking and when i start thinking i don't stop[/quote]

Aaaawwww, poor noory 😢
There there. You dont hav to if you dont want to.
Your such a good lil girl... yes you are... yes you are... there you go... good girl... good girl.[/quote]

you're so annoying, did you know that? well you do now.[/quote]
i think hes funny 😂 😂

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 22:03

[quote=Funzo]would i be classed as an oldie on this forum?[/quote]

I dunno... theres soo few of us left anymore.
I think the people who were on here when we had the original green proboards (brings back memories) are classed as oldies. Me, MS, MslilSis, Angel, Omrow, Admin, Ed are the only ones left.

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 22:06

[quote=Funzo]just answer the question three years on the forum in a week![/quote]

I think im coming onto 7/8 years on here now.
The others ofcourse were here before even I.

but i think... i would now start classifying you as an oldie.

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 22:12

[quote=wednesday]GOLDEN AND DIAMOND OLDIES![/quote]

and which ones a girls best friend?

{runs a quick hand through his hair}

lol

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 22:21

[quote=wednesday][quote=Seraphim]Sure sure[/quote]

Preferance luvie, stones and gems, other than diamond or a ruby! *shivers in disgust* ... i just can't stand gold, dia, rub , and i dont know and don't ask![/quote]

Sid chill... im not putting a ring on your finger.

lol

Seraphim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 - 22:38

That was my polite way of saying take this jewellery conversation else where (i.e. the no topic thread)
Instead of littering this thread.

tut tut women :roll:

Ya'qub — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 - 13:27

Wow...Four pages of sensible conversation. Well, three pages of sensible conversation and half a page of idle chit-chat, but well done to everyone, anyway!

Unfortunately a lot of what many people wrote was very...err... weird?

Can I just say something about atheism (as a former atheist): Atheism is NOT a religion, and Atheists don't see 'science' as a religion either. Get this out your heads. 90% of Muslims I've met say something similar to this, and it is utterly misleading and does not help you 'understand' them either.

Also, atheism is NOT a belief in 'nothing', or not having a belief at all. And Agnosticism is when someone is unsure about whether God (or 'a god') exists or doesn't exist.

And Free Will... of course we have Free Will. If we didn't have Free Will then the existence of Enternal Punishment would be grossly, GROSSLY unfair, and would render Allah (swt) nothing more than a sadist (astaghfiruallah).

People say that because the 'book is closed and the ink is dry', then we all already have our 'Final Destination' mapped out for us. This is only true in-so-much that Allah (swt) exists outside of time. In a way, He has 'already seen' our final resting place, or more accurately, He knows what it 'will be', because He knows everything. But in all talk of Allah's (swt) knowledge and foresite, we have to realise that a human mind can only understand this concept through metaphor, because we can never get close to understanding His (swt) knowledge AT ALL.

The fact that He has written out our life already does not mean that we don't make our own choices, or that we aren't responsible. If you see a blind man walking along a road towards a hole, you might 'know' that he will fall into the hole, and you might write it in a book. But would this mean for a second that you were the one who pushed him into the hole? Of course not.

And I have been spending whole nights talking to my housemates about punishment/reward. I was, for a long time, uncomfortable with the fact that people who have no knowledge or belief in Allah (swt) would be punished, simply because they didn't believe. Even if they had been an honest person with good morals who hadn't stolen in their life, or been selfish, or even committed ANY other sin (other than disbelief). WHY is Kufr the biggest of all sins? Why is it worse than murder, worse than rape?

But now I realise something. EVERYTHING in existence points towards the existence of a creator. If you look at the stars in the sky at night, or the changing of the seasons, or even at the smile on a babies face (I know these are cliches, but they have become cliches for a good reason: they really ARE amazing).

Nobody can be fully blind to the beauty of creation, NO one can be deaf to the call of Allah (swt). It is barely relevant whether they have had access to the Qur'an, because all that Allah (swt) asks is that someone acknowledges His existence (as Noor posted, anyone who has an atom's weight/mustard seed's worth of Eeman will enter Jannah).

The only reason why someone can live in this world and NOT believe in Allah (swt), is if they have taken something else as their 'god'. This could be their own selfish desires: They 'refuse' to acknowledge they are dependant on some-One else for their own existence and sustenance (even though they 'know' that they are, deep down inside their heart). If they ignore their internal call - their Fitrah, then they utterly deserve punishment, because we all know that 'Mankind and Jinn have ONLY been created to worship Allah (swt)' (as it says in Surah al-Baqarah).

I apologise for the low quality of how I've expressed this, it would take hours (or more likely days) to adequately express my opinions on this. Can I ask everyone here to pray that my family sees the Truth before its too late. Jazak'Allah.

Courage — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 - 15:55

Ameen. Inshallah. Bilal Philips learnt that the "silver bullet" may be to be the best son, brother, cousin or friend you can to the people concerned. Inshallah that'll work for you.

Omrow — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 - 16:42

Salam

When the Angels of God see you carry out an act of terrorism,
it is then too late for you to be saved from the Fire of Hell.

And, as you all know, according to Prophet Mohammed's teachings,
you considered as one of them when you are seen helping those who
commit an evil act of terrorism.

Helpers of evil people are also evil. They too will burn in Hell.

That is the real Islam which most people still do not know.

Omrow

Amal — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 - 17:00

[quote=Ya'qub]
I apologise for the low quality of how I've expressed this, it would take hours (or more likely days) to adequately express my opinions on this. Can I ask everyone here to pray that my family sees the Truth before its too late. Jazak'Allah.[/quote]

Ameen.

Very elequently and beautifully put, I thought. Thank you for that post, its been niggling at me for a while.