You people are closed minded. I just didn't wake up one morning and think... "hay am going to claim women are intellectually inferior to men" I've seriously thought about this. In the academical science men consistently outperform women... See the science/math and engineering fields. Women dominate in trivial fields, such as home economics, nursing and support teachers.
[u][b][color=green]Islamic evidence in support of my premise.[/color][/b][/u]
[b]Hadith evidence:[/b]
[b]Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:[/b] Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. [b]I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. [/b]A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" [b]He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?[/b]" They replied in the affirmative. [b]He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence[/b]. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."
[b]Cite:[/b] [url=http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.ht... Bukhari 1:6:301[/url], [b]see also[/b] [url=http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/024.sbt.ht... Bukhari 2:24:541[/b][/url], [url=http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/048.sbt.ht... Bukhari 3:48:826.[/b][/url]
[b]Quranic evidence: [/b]
[b]Yusuf Ali (2:282):[/b] O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, [b]and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so [u]that if one of them errs[/u], the other can [color=red]remind [u]her[/u][/color].[/b] The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.
[b]SHAKIR (2.228):[/b] And the divorced women should keep themselves in waiting for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they should conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the last day; and their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile if they wish for reconciliation; and they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner, [b]and the [u][color=red]men[/color][/u] are a [u]degree above them[/u][/b], and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
[b]Cite:[/b] [url=http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.282]Qur'an 2:282[/url], [url=http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.228]2:228.[/url]
[color=darkblue]
[b][u]Scientific Evidence in support of my premise[/u][/b][/color]
[b]'Men cleverer than women' claim:[/b]
[i][b]Academics in the UK claim their research shows that [color=red]men are more intelligent than women[/color].[/b] A study to be published later this year in the British Journal of Psychology says that [b]men are on average five points ahead on IQ tests[/b].
The academics used a test which is said to measure "general cognitive ability" - spatial and verbal ability. As intelligence scores among the study group rose, [b]the academics say they found a widening gap between the sexes.[/b] There were twice as many men with IQ scores of 125, for example, a level said to correspond with people getting first-class degrees.
[color=red][b]At scores of 155, associated with genius, there were 5.5 men for every woman.[/b] [/color]
[/i]
[b]Harvard row over sex and science:[/b]
[i]Former US Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers[b] argued one group outperformed the other [u][color=red]because of genetics[/color][/u], not just experience[/b][/i]
[b]Cite:[/b] BBC - [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4183166.stm]'Men cleverer than women' claim[/url], [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4183495.stm]Harvard row over sex and science[/url], [b]see also[/b] [b][url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3577868.stm]Boys 'fighting back' in A-levels[/url][/b].
By the way there is also biological evidence which suggests when women are on periods or going though pregnancy they are more likely to be forgetful and intellectually deficient. I just don't have the time to find these articles at the moment.
Qur'an [3:195] Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you male or female - you are equal to one another. Thus, those who immigrate, and get evicted from their homes, and are persecuted because of Me, and fight and get killed, I will surely remit their sins and admit them into gardens with flowing streams." Such is the reward from GOD. GOD possesses the ultimate reward.
Ummul mumineen Hadrat Ayesha (ra) was a scholar and she was a WOMAN if you didn't know, the wife of the Prophet Muhammad (saw), the seal of the Prophets (as). She taught the MEN and women. The sahaba, including the MEN came to her and asked questions relating to fiqh, ahadith, quran.
Find yourself a shaykh, you make me sick.
I will answer(well, not really answer - but link to answers to) the specific Islamic quotes mentioned - the ahadith and the quranic verses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxWVkhLIBi8 (the guy does beat about the bush a little...)
In short the witness issue is only in one aspect - financial agreements which in an Islamic society men do deal with and women potentially do not depending no the circumstances - and not a general damnation of intelligence. That clip also mentions a verse of the qur'an where a woman's testimony is taken above a man's ([url=http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/024.qmt.html#024.008]Qur'an 24:8[/url]) - The man in that situation is actually called a liar in the qur'an!
Your first verse also deals with that single financial aspect.
As your second verse is also not as clear as that quote. It is a literal translation of a verse concerning the divorce period and loses context. It means that men have a degree [b]of responsibility[/b] over women during the divorce period.
In short once the divorce process has started a man loses all rights over the woman, but the woman does not immediately lose all her rights over the man. He still has responsibilities towards her.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/men_and_women_daraja.htm for more details.
That link als gives the explanations by muffassirs who have studied and understood the qur'an and not just relied on a translation which may or may not keep the full context and meaning of the arabic language.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
HAHAHA True Say!!
Raj.. bro go get sum fresh air.. the world is practically run by women..!
If you desire Allah to be persistent in granting you the things you love,, be persistent in doing the things that he loves - (Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)
Ok that proves he has defo had a disturbed childhood.
I dont fit into your "trivial fields" so you got that one wrong.
Girls have outdone boys for a number of years.
source: the Telegraph
source BBC
Just coz Allah(swt) has gifted men with more strength does not make you superior to a women. We are all equal in the eyes of Allah (swt).
Q. If men are so "superior" then why is it that Jannah lies at the mothers feet and not the fathers?
Q. If you hate women so much why did you marry one?
No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy
I don't hate women. I just think they are not smart as men. Plus I had now choice, my mum and my sisters forced me into marriage. Not that I did not want to get married I just wanted to get married to some other woman. I did want to get married, but I wanted to get to know my wife better, my wife is not subservient and obedient enough for my liking.
Understand what you know.
Dude shes not a dog; that shes supposed to be subservient.
Shes your other half. Two different sides to the same coin.
And if women arent as smart as men how did your mom & sister manage to trick you into marriage?
Back in BLACK
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
they force me not tricked me.
Understand what you know.
they physically grabbed your hands and made you sign?
What the hell is this? This thread is ridiculous!
The media, government, tried to blow us, but they can't out the flame, or doubt the name.
TELL ME ABOUT IT HAHA :roll:
If you desire Allah to be persistent in granting you the things you love,, be persistent in doing the things that he loves - (Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)
I believe you that you didnt suddenly wake up one morning and decide
you obviously had tough luck with the women wen you was growing up (i understand, but certainly cant relate)...and whilst some take it out on women by swinging to the other side, some go all out on muslim forums ranting about how men are 10000 times better than women despite that they can stil trick ya into marriage
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
WAKE UP MR RAJ.
YOUR COMMENTS ARE BEYOND A JOKE!!!
YOU...TALK ABOUT INTELLIGENCE? LOOSER!!!!!!
Where there is a will, there is a way...
I don't understand how that comment will help him see the light...
From my understanding he based his views on a incorrect understanding of some Islamic texts.
TO answer that, the best thing you can do is get him a clue to the correct interpretations. Not shout him down.
And looser? looser than what?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Looser than her belt!
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
I was psychologically bullied. That was my only realistic option to sign.
Understand what you know.
I doubt, Raj, that you have come to a reasonable conclusion at the end of it all. How does your wife feel about the marriage?
We are both alright with it. Its just that she has opinions. I mean, I don't mind her talking to me, but I just don't like her opinions. Like if I should go out or not, or she telling me I should hang up when I call her. But I like being married to her... Things might change... She listens sometimes.
Understand what you know.
That sounds good. Can I suggest a couple of things? Just suggestions:
1. It's a tough time of year. Weather's bad, money's low, none of us is quite as fulfilled as we might like. Acknowledge a temporary mood and try to snap out of it. See if your attitude is unfair to her. By all means claim your space but try to balance that with affection and empathy. She is also struggling, and everything can get very emotionally taxing.
2. She expresses those opinions out of concern for you, concern for herself and concern for the marriage. Focus on consoling her and try to take her complaints on board. Don't be too demanding.
Just suggestions. Forgive me if I overstep the mark, I often do that, but just as often my insights are helpful, at least temporary fixes and maybe even lasting impressions.
So anyway, best wishes and please, no need to raise hackles! B'shalom.
I'm Punjabi (Pakistani) this kind of stuff doesn't work. She knows her role that she has to "culturally and religiously" be obedient to me. But I've been lax in enforcing this policy. I talk to her, I don't mind her opinions I mind her getting moody when I reject her opinions. Or when I do something she doesn't approve of. Am sick and tried of spending 15 minutes making her un moody, me apologizing and putting my ass on the line trying to make her forgive me as "I have been stupid" I've just had enough.
Understand what you know.
so what you gona do?
He's gonna rant about on the internet ofcourse!
@ Raj - it may become easier if you start to see her as an equivalent.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
No, that advice is for your sake, your happiness! Or both of you.
Why can't you just be happy with what gods given you? You should be grateful to god for all he's given you.
What a cry baby.
Back in BLACK
Just read this thread and it's funny. Raj you are such a joker.
You say you've found your way to Islam now...
How exactly?
Well he's not slandering it and coming up with some half-a$$ theories of disproving islam.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
Islam only says that women should go to court or places in pairs. Never does it say that in EVERY situation a man's word is more credibly than a woman. Only in financial matters you're advised to have a man and two women as men are expected to be the experts in finance but that's just generally.
Raj, mate, your wife has to respect you, but you have to respect her too. Islam orders you to that whether you like it or not. Sorry, mate, I'm not trying to wind you up, but it's true.
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
Ditto that.
She aint supposed to be bossed around by you, rather you should both work together as one and make things work out in your everyday life, starting from the little things then getting onto the harder things.
It takes time to adjust to new people, especially someone whom your going to spend the rest of your life with, Im sure she thinks the same bout you but she aint ranting bout it, shes trying i gues.
One day you'll realise that shes the one for you, coz what ever Allah decides its in our best interest, He doen't burden us with anything, samaj gaye?!
Learn To Love The People Who Are Willing To Love You At Present. Forget The People In The Past & Thank Them For Hurting You, Which Lead You To Love The People You Have Right Now..