Poll:Islam-West rift widens- Do you agree?

Am I "Islam" or am I "west"?

[quote="You"]Am I "Islam" or am I "west"?[/quote]

You are You.

I think muslims are too westernised if thats a word in the wrong ways some of us tend to think what would the west think of me? rather than what would allah swt think of me?
I think islam and the west are getting closer but the media publicity islam gets portrays the opposite picture. The media as we all know play a huge part in public opinion and this portrayal is inaccurate.

[quote]SO DO U AGREE THAT THE GAP BETWEEN ISLAM & THE WEST IS WIDENING & WORSENING OR ARE ISLAM & THE WEST CLOSER THAN EVER BEFORE?[/quote]

Getting worse.

[quote]DO MUSLIMS & NON MUSLIMS HAVE MORE IN COMMON OR MORE DIFFERENCES?[/quote]

Way too many differences.

[quote]ARE MUSLIM & NON MUSLIMS COMPATIBLE TO EACH OTHER?[/quote]

Nope.

[quote]DO YOU GET ON WITH NON MUSLIMS IN THE UK & HOW DO THEY PERCEIVE YOU?[/quote]

Yah, very well actually.

[quote="You"]Am I "Islam" or am I "west"?[/quote]

As far as I'm concerned you're another human being and an equal. If you want to identify as a Muslim also that's fine.

Those that define their neighbours in unpleasant terms, such as by referring demeaningly to "westerners" or "kafirs" as distinct from "Muslims" or vice versa, or, for that matter, "goyim" as distinct from "Jews", "whites" distinct from "muds, yids, pakis, niggers" etc, "believers" distinct from "unbelievers" or who distinguish themselves through any other such arrogant and offensive dichotomy, are a bunch of arseholes. We oughtn't mind distinguishing ourselves from a bunch of arseholes.

[quote="Noor"][quote]ARE MUSLIM & NON MUSLIMS COMPATIBLE TO EACH OTHER?[/quote]

Nope.

[quote]DO YOU GET ON WITH NON MUSLIMS IN THE UK & HOW DO THEY PERCEIVE YOU?[/quote]

Yah, very well actually.[/quote]

So how is that possible?

[quote]
SO DO U AGREE THAT THE GAP BETWEEN ISLAM & THE WEST IS WIDENING & WORSENING OR ARE ISLAM & THE WEST CLOSER THAN EVER BEFORE?

Neither 'the West' or 'Islam' are indivisible blocks. In some ways closer, in some ways further apart.

DO MUSLIMS & NON MUSLIMS HAVE MORE IN COMMON OR MORE DIFFERENCES?

MUCH more in common (although some people would like us to think otherwise).

ARE MUSLIM & NON MUSLIMS COMPATIBLE TO EACH OTHER?

I hope so because my entire family and many of my friends are non-Muslim. It seems to be only certain, small portions of each side who want there to be problems/conflict.

DO YOU GET ON WITH NON MUSLIMS IN THE UK & HOW DO THEY PERCEIVE YOU?
Yes I do, and many non-Muslims have seen the positive effect Islam has had on my life and my character. They just think I'm following a pack of lies, and to be fair I think they're following a pack of lies too. But this difference doesn't stop us from being kind, polite and civil to each other and it doesn't get in the way of being a human being (normally).[/quote]

[quote="Ya'qub"][quote]
SO DO U AGREE THAT THE GAP BETWEEN ISLAM & THE WEST IS WIDENING & WORSENING OR ARE ISLAM & THE WEST CLOSER THAN EVER BEFORE?

Neither 'the West' or 'Islam' are indivisible blocks. In some ways closer, in some ways further apart.

DO MUSLIMS & NON MUSLIMS HAVE MORE IN COMMON OR MORE DIFFERENCES?

MUCH more in common (although some people would like us to think otherwise).

ARE MUSLIM & NON MUSLIMS COMPATIBLE TO EACH OTHER?

I hope so because my entire family and many of my friends are non-Muslim. It seems to be only certain, small portions of each side who want there to be problems/conflict.

DO YOU GET ON WITH NON MUSLIMS IN THE UK & HOW DO THEY PERCEIVE YOU?
Yes I do, and many non-Muslims have seen the positive effect Islam has had on my life and my character. They just think I'm following a pack of lies, and to be fair I think they're following a pack of lies too. But this difference doesn't stop us from being kind, polite and civil to each other and it doesn't get in the way of being a human being (normally).[/quote][/quote]

Quality answer. Change a few personal details and I could say the same thing.

[quote="Joie de Vivre"][quote="You"]Am I "Islam" or am I "west"?[/quote]

As far as I'm concerned you're another human being and an equal. If you want to identify as a Muslim also that's fine.

Those that define their neighbours in unpleasant terms, such as by referring demeaningly to "westerners" or "kafirs" as distinct from "Muslims" or vice versa, or, for that matter, "goyim" as distinct from "Jews", "whites" distinct from "muds, yids, pakis, niggers" etc, "believers" distinct from "unbelievers" or who distinguish themselves through any other such arrogant and offensive dichotomy, are a bunch of arseholes. We oughtn't mind distinguishing ourselves from a bunch of arseholes.[/quote]

You seen "Team America"? A certain speech comes to mind. (There are three types of people...)

I agree with most of what you said - the only ones that are opposites in that lists are "believers" and "unbelievers". The rest (even race) can co-exist in the same person and are in most cases there just to divide.

[quote="Joie de Vivre"][quote="Noor"][quote]ARE MUSLIM & NON MUSLIMS COMPATIBLE TO EACH OTHER?[/quote]

Nope.

[quote]DO YOU GET ON WITH NON MUSLIMS IN THE UK & HOW DO THEY PERCEIVE YOU?[/quote]

Yah, very well actually.[/quote]

So how is that possible?[/quote]

oh, i mean yes. i had the west in mind when i said no.. i think.

Respect, thanks for clarifying.

[quote="You"]

You seen "Team America"? A certain speech comes to mind. (There are three types of people...)
[/quote]

that is truly a wonderful speech! 😃

not repeatable on here, unfortunately...

Yes that is unfortunate. We have gone too strict with moderating policies, but even in lax times that would be pushing it quite far.

[quote="You"]You seen "Team America"? A certain speech comes to mind. (There are three types of people...)[/quote]

Um, thanks for reminding me. lol.

As for believers and unbelievers, the issue is not with the fact that the distinction is real, but with holding a grudge over it.

[quote="Joie de Vivre"]As for believers and unbelievers, the issue is not with the fact that the distinction is real, but with holding a grudge over it.[/quote]

oh. I agree fully then.

Kaafirs news sources are lying again.

They always twists things to scare people.

West and Islam are not against each other. They are coming closer and closer.

I have no problem with western people. I was born in west. It is Allah's earth. We all live on it. Muslims and non-Muslims do have some issues but that does not mean most of us hate each other.

Most Muslims love non-Muslims and most non-Muslims love Muslims.

That is fact. Dont listen to propaganda on media. Kaafir evils news.

You do realise by calling someone kafir you risk the possibility of becoming one yourself?

Unless they are a kafir.

😂

@irfan/funzo: no need to go all PC. Too many people are already afraid of telling the truth.

If someone is clearly not a muslim, it is not an insult to say that. It is only the case of a munafiq -where someone claims to be a Muslim, claims to believe and act on the same principles but may not really do so that you have to be careful.

I didnt say it was a done deelio, just simply saying there is the possibility of becoming one yourself.

Actually for once Funzo got a point, this really pious sufi women who came to give a talk here said.That if you called someone a kafir , and later that kafir "disbeliever" became a Muslim you would take their place as a disbeliever.

That doesn't make sense. Kafir literally means non-Muslim, and you are referring to the present time, not the future.

So if someone calls a non-Muslim a kafir, they are a kafir, that's a fact. If they however embrace Islam then you cannot call them a kafir anymore.

It's like let's not call a Muslim, Muslim, just incase they apostate and turn away from Islam so they are no longer a Muslim and are a kafir so by calling them a Muslim, I have wronged because I shouldn't have called them that because they are now are a kafir and not a Muslim so I should've just kept my big mouth shut and avoid using the word Muslim or kafir.

What I've heard is that, you shouldn't call a Muslim, whatever sin he might have or is committing a kafir, but I've never heard/read that you shouldn't call a kafir a kafir.

[quote="MuslimBro"]That doesn't make sense. Kafir literally means non-Muslim, and you are referring to the present time, not the future.

So if someone calls a non-Muslim a kafir, they are a kafir, that's a fact. If they however embrace Islam then you cannot call them a kafir anymore.

It's like let's not call a Muslim, Muslim, just incase they apostate and turn away from Islam so they are no longer a Muslim and are a kafir so by calling them a Muslim, I have wronged because I shouldn't have called them that because they are now are a kafir and not a Muslim so I should've just kept my big mouth shut and avoid using the word Muslim or kafir.

What I've heard is that, you shouldn't call a Muslim, whatever sin he might have or is committing a kafir, but I've never heard/read th
at you shouldn't call a kafir a kafir.[/quote]

no need to attack me, all i'm saying is what that sufi women said. What she said made sense ,

Not attacking you but it's just I've never heard that before.

[quote="MuslimBro"]Not attacking you but it's just I've never heard that before.[/quote]

fair doose

[quote="Bliss"] What she said made sense ,[/quote]

no it didn't!

But MB is wrong, Kafir doesn't mean 'non-Muslim', in Arabic its more linked with notions such as pride, arrogance and actively rejecting the truth.

Good book is dictionary of the quran/quranic arabic. It describes in great detail the meanings and implications of certain words.

e.g. instead of 'Rahma = Mercy' (like in a standard translation) there is about 2 pages on the meaning of the word Rahma.

Oh, I thought it meant non-Muslim = non believer.

[quote]Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word literally meaning "ingrate". In the Islamic doctrinal sense the term refers to a person who does not recognize Allah or the prophethood of Muhammad (i.e., any non-Muslim) or who hides, denies, or covers the truth. In cultural terms, it is seen as a derogatory term used to describe an unbeliever, non-Muslims, apostate from Islam and even between Muslims of different sects. It is usually translated into English as "infidel" or "unbeliever."[/quote]

[quote="MuslimBro"]Oh, I thought it meant non-Muslim = non believer.

[quote]Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word literally meaning "ingrate". In the Islamic doctrinal sense the term refers to a person who does not recognize Allah or the prophethood of Muhammad (i.e., any non-Muslim) or who hides, denies, or covers the truth. In cultural terms, it is seen as a derogatory term used to describe an unbeliever, non-Muslims, apostate from Islam and even between Muslims of different sects. It is usually translated into English as "infidel" or "unbeliever."[/quote][/quote]

Where is that definition from? An expert in Classical Arabic?

No, google. 😛

Ok, you win 🙁

I'm sure I'm not making this up, but I remember at a talk Shaykh Hamza Yusuf saying that the word Kafir or some word with a similar pronunciation to that means farmer in Arabic.