If she was on that bus then we can be sure that her left arms will be found on some roof top, and her head on some field. Maybe her legs got crushed under a long truck.
I just hope her heart is ok. She had a beautiful heart.
yeah, yahoo.com is a dodgy web site, but why do u, and the vast population choose to believe a web site, that as far as we know does not exist?
i mean i can copy and paste ur first reply to my post today and apply it to the Israeli terrorists.. and say ur stuffs all twaddle, and your living in denial.. but I wont as it wont achieve anything..
thats gotta raise a 'hmmm'
—
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
After the first blast Netanyahu was warned not to go anywhere. Because of AP tossers saying 'hmm', which is actually a very disgusting thing to go around saying, it was immediately misreported and in spite of clarifications throughout the day from both Israeli and British officials as well as from the AP, it is now in the Zionist Crusader rumour mill. The AP just does irresponsible things like that, and it's hard to hold them accountable for, f'rinstance, what you just wrote.
After the first blast Netanyahu was warned not to go anywhere. Because of AP tossers saying 'hmm', which is actually a very disgusting thing to go around saying, it was immediately misreported and in spite of clarifications throughout the day from both Israeli and British officials as well as from the AP, it is now in the Zionist Crusader rumour mill. The AP just does irresponsible things like that, and it's hard to hold them accountable for, f'rinstance, what you just wrote.
yep read it, ive also read numerous news articles of how the Israelis refused to comment after the netinyahoo slip up,..
now come on 100, post us a link to the jihadist web site.
—
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
...But MSNBC TV translator Jacob Keryakes, who said that a copy of the message was later posted on a secular Web site, noted that the claim of responsibility [b]contained an error in one of the Quranic verses it cited[/b]. That suggests that the claim may be phony, he said.
"This is not something al-Qaida would do," he said.
Khan, the other hmmm is a wait and see if the claim bears out, and I agree with you. It's not even a hmmm. Noone in the government is lending it weight.
Quote:
numerous news articles of how the Israelis refused to comment after the netinyahoo slip up,..
now come on 100, post us a link to the jihadist web site.
Don't have one. Your story was filed at 7.14AM. Another was filed at 7.18AM and updated at 9.59AM. One says before the bomb, the other says after. Before and after:
Quote:
By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jul 7, 7:14 AM ET
JERUSALEM - British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said.
Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had planned to attend an economic conference in a hotel over the subway stop where one of the blasts occurred, and the warning prompted him to stay in his hotel room instead, government officials said.
Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said he wasn't aware of any Israeli casualties.
Just before the blasts, Scotland Yard called the security officer at the Israeli Embassy to say they had received warnings of possible attacks, the official said. He did not say whether British police made any link to the economic conference.
The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the nature of his position.
The Israeli Embassy was in a state of emergency after the explosions in London, with no one allowed to enter or leave, said the Israeli ambassador to London, Zvi Hefet.
All phone lines to the embassy were down, said Danny Biran, an Israeli Foreign Ministry official.
The ministry set up a situation room to deal with hundreds of phone calls from concerned relatives. Thousands of Israelis are living in London or visiting the city at this time, Biran said.
Amir Gilad, a Netanyahu aide, told Israel Radio that Netanyahu's entourage was receiving updates all morning from British security officials, and "we have also asked to change our plans."
Netanyahu had been scheduled to stay in London until Sunday, but that could change, Gilad said.
Netanyahu had been on way to London hotel near blasts
JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was on his way to a hotel near the scene of one of the London blasts Thursday when he received a call to stay put, the foreign minister said.
"After the first explosion, our finance minister received a request not to go anywhere," Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom told Israel Army Radio.
Netanyahu was to have been the scheduled keynote speaker at an Israeli corporate investment conference at the Great Eastern hotel near the Liverpool Street subway station.
Conference participants were evacuated from the hotel. Shalom said he wasn't aware of any Israeli casualties.
Netanyahu had been scheduled to stay in London until Sunday, but that could change, said Amir Gilad, a Netanyahu aide.
Shalom speculated the attackers might have taken advantage of the fact that police resources were diverted to a meeting of Western leaders.
The Israeli ambassador to London, Zvi Hefetz, said Thursday that British police had called to tell embassy personnel to stay inside their offices. "There is fear that this wave (of violence) has not yet ended," Hefetz said.
In any case at 7.41AM Amy Tiebel, who wrote your original piece, bravely checks her notes.
Cheeky. I'm pretty sure it was but you're right, we wait. In any case the thing is to know it all has nothing to do with you. I'm not aware you support bin Laden - clarify that briefly if you would, and I'll understand you're just messing around looking at theories.
i dont know bin laden, never met him or any of his boys.
as far as i know from what ive seen of him on his interviews with british journalists, he seems like a very humble figure, when not quoted out of context... I do not support him, and have not seen any credible evidence of him being responsible for acts of terrorism.
the taliban requested evidence from the US prior to them invading afghanistan, the US denied, what I understand from that was the US had none..
u see it was a very sad day in London yesterday. In the articles u posted, the second one states that netinyahoo was informed after the first blast, whether the story was changed or not we do not know..
what we do know is that, watching all the news channels, we were stunned to hear that only after the third explosion did the London police decide that a bomb attack was underway and shut down the system. Until that point they had been theorizing that the train had experienced "a power surge."
now thats a 'hmm'
—
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I am stopping after the second paragraph, lest I crack up so much I cannot type. Bin Laden is the longstanding Mujahid who often threatens and takes responsibility for attacks against the west. Whatever he believes, publicly he accuses all-powerful Jews and western governments of conspiring to eradicate Islam, and says he sees their wars in that light and the light of the battles described against the dajjal. He calls on all Muslims to rise against these Crusaders, and quotes many Qu'ranic verses supposedly to support his jihad, but who have you come to believe he really is?
Geroff, then you can call it 'global culture'. Whatever. You're being a prick, you know? Yoghurt is white culture, it was a very simple joke. I am being very clear, I believe 'white culture' implies nationalistic, racist beliefs. You are calling me racist for saying that. Prick.
Hmm, disappointed. Now you're being abusive because you feel unable to comment, condone or challenge my views - yet you still insist on justifying your own apparently without redress. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I don't do flame wars however the mods may have something to say on that.
Racist by selective association..what an acute sense of tolerance which I do hope isn't inflicted on the unwitting white victim be it in an academic, vocational or social capacity..your lack of manners proceeds you.
Geroff, then you can call it 'global culture'. Whatever. You're being a prick, you know? Yoghurt is white culture, it was a very simple joke. I am being very clear, I believe 'white culture' implies nationalistic, racist beliefs. You are calling me racist for saying that. Prick.
Hmm, disappointed. Now you're being abusive because you feel unable to comment, condone or challenge my views - yet you still insist on justifying your own apparently without redress. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I don't do flame wars however the mods may have something to say on that.
Racist by selective association..what an acute sense of tolerance which I do hope isn't inflicted on the unwitting white victim be it in an academic, vocational or social capacity..your lack of manners proceeds you.
But still no definition of 'white culture'. Come on dude!
That isn't what I mean. What I mean is that you will only object so strongly to the assumption it was bin Laden, and it remains probable but an assumption nonetheless, if you benefit by doing this. And the benefit is loss of stigma. What I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure it's bin Laden, I'm thoroughly sick of your theories which are shoddy stories about conspiring Jews in spite of the fact serious and credible, stark evidence suggests otherwise - your stigma isn't real, and I don't want it either. Now, you can say I got you all twisted, but that's my take on you. Muslims defending bin Laden is either bad for Islam, if you are British too, or good for Islam, if Islam is meant to conquer everyone. You reject the second explanation, but you get in the car anyway, and you trap yourself in a no-man's reality. A fantasy.
I've been really thorough and not avoiding anything. Now you've got two new angles. One is the power failure thing. That seems to have become a standard early explanation for disasters of unknown cause. There have been some tremendous, unusual power failures over the last couple of years, and power failures on the scale of the US or European one aren't really common, so I'm in the dark with you about why it came up again, this time with explosions. Last year my brother was on a journey where everyone had to walk down a tube track because of 'power failure' and it wasn't widely reported. My guess is that there was something about power failure, it was correctly interpreted as a risk and reported, a blast was heard, there could be no revising the initial statement because things were totally unclear, and messages were sent out far and wide including the one that reached Netanyahu. Then Amy thingy, who has read many of khan's conspiracy theories and very very stupidly thought she had THE SCOOP on Zionist Crusaders, misreported the Israeli statement, and revised her report, but not before khan had read it and mailed it back with some other dumb suggestions. The second angle, this idea you've been denied the privilege of Netanyahu's warning, is also pretty stupid. It unravelled like it unravelled. Scotland Yard gave the warnings, and no doubt not just to Netanyahu but to anybody they were duty-bound to protect that day.
So, I hope that's clear. I am not aligning you with bin Laden. But, did you get my point? I mean, what's the answer to the question I asked?
Quote:
Khan: i dont know bin laden, never met him or any of his boys.
as far as i know from what ive seen of him on his interviews with british journalists, he seems like a very humble figure, when not quoted out of context... I do not support him, and have not seen any credible evidence of him being responsible for acts of terrorism....
100: I am stopping after the second paragraph, lest I crack up so much I cannot type. Bin Laden is the longstanding Mujahid who often threatens and takes responsibility for attacks against the west. Whatever he believes, publicly he accuses all-powerful Jews and western governments of conspiring to eradicate Islam, and says he sees their wars in that light and the light of the battles described against the dajjal. He calls on all Muslims to rise against these Crusaders, and quotes many Qu'ranic verses supposedly to support his jihad, but who have you come to believe he really is?
I believe messages were also sent to the media, and from there not just London but the world, literally as things happened. You didn't answer my question, or respond properly just now to my points.
Anyway Shabbat Shalom, speak about it some other time.
y r guys chatting about racism and "white culture" on this thread? a tad off-topic wouldnt u say? so Geroff can u just PM irfan ur definition of it and get tht over and done with plz.
100! y r u swearing at ppl? chil out mate!
oh but latifah, nice reply to omrow, he deserved that! i'd luv a translation of ur last line too
Ed, IS APH ALRIGHT?? (i am making du'a for her friend...)
—
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Submitted by Seraphim on 8 July, 2005 - 22:46 #143
Firstly my prayers and condolence go to those family and friends who have directly or indirectly been affected by the bombing (in particular in this forum Aphrodite). My hope also goes to those who had died as a result of the bombing, Muslim and non-Muslim, that their accountability ends in prosperity (ie Paradise). It is also a reminder for the living - (beleive or disbeleive) that we will indeed meet the Creator so what have we prepared.
Secondly I condemn this attack with the statement of Allah ajja wa jal that whoever kills a person “[b]it is as though he had killed a whole humanity[/b]” [5:32]. Whether it was undertaken by Muslims or not these acts are indeed forbidden and Muslims everywhere especially in Britain must condemn it openly. This condemnation should not be out of guilt that ‘what the kuffar would think of us if we don’t!’ But as to distant the truth of Islam from these forbidden and barbaric acts.
Thirdly it is evident that the Enemies of Islam (Americas, French, Israeli and British [b]authorities[/b] occupying Muslim lands and their puppet rulers) have used this to further subjugate and silence the Muslims. Muslims must hold fast to their identity and continue to speak the truth against the two-facedness and major terrorist acts committed by the enemies of Islam upon the Muslim Ummah. Indeed Robert Fisks article is excellent in this regard.
Fourthly Muslims must be more vigilant for indeed islamaphobia will rise again. Muslims must make sure that their mothers and their sisters are attended, their young and their old are protected and their property and wealth secured.
And finally I would like to say a message specifically to the non Muslim that this attack was upon us too (eg the Muslims community of Edgware and Aldgate) and subsequently we have been made victims. Accordingly this attack should not be seen as separation of our communities but in contrary must reinforce our unity, irrespective of our different values and belief, upon our citizenship. Indeed ken Livingston’s statement made in Singapore comes to mind.
Aph plz post and let us know ur fine and everything!!
—
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Those that have died I offer their families condolences.
I have been asked to lokc this topic, as its too early and a bit distasteful to start the blame game.
I have not done so, as even if it is distasteful people have questions that need answering.
Who did it? I suggested a few possibilities in my first post. I never did think or do think its the 'far right'. two of the explosions may have been near muslim communities, but the others were not. Either way they were indiscriminate.
If it was Al qaedah, yesterday Tony benn struck a cord with me when he said its not a religious war, but a political one.
IRA is a real possibility as they have been totally sidelined in Northern Ireland. In the past this has lead to violence.
Its probably too big an attack to have been done by G8 anarchists.
Either way lets hope the perpetrators are cought and punished severely. However a Life sentence is not really a severe punishment. In the court of God they will be caught and punished to the extent they deserve.
—
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Every individual can play a part in fighting terror
[b][size=14]Tariq Ramadan[/size][/b]
The message of the criminals who attacked London is plain: "We can strike western societies from within; no one is safe from terror; we have the means to choose the right time, the right places, the right symbols." We must acknowledge that their message, coming the day after the announcement of London's victory to host the Olympic games in 2012, was strong and terrifying.
The objective of these attacks is to make us realise how fragile our societies are. From this feeling of fragility arises fear - for oneself and of the Other.
On Wednesday Londoners were united in joy. Now we face the risk that fear will build walls of doubt and misunderstanding between them. All could come to feel that they are potential victims: of Muslim extremists on the one hand; of rejection and racism on the other. The proponents of the "clash of civilisations" theory will have won if we allow ourselves to become suspicious towards people of other faiths and cultures.
Where does and where shall our strength lie? First, we must condemn these attacks with the strongest energy; Muslims in unison with wider British society. But to condemn is not enough. Our values, our societies, our common future require that we become aware of our shared responsibilities. Yes, London is a multicultural society but - in common with the rest of Europe - it will preserve its pluralistic equilibrium only through the personal engagement of every individual in their daily life, within their own neighbourhood.
Muslims must speak out and explain who they are, what they believe in, what they stand for, what is the meaning of their life. They must have the courage to denounce what is said and done by certain Muslims in the name of their religion. They will not reassure their fellow citizens by pretending to be "like them", saying only what they want to hear and becoming invisible. They have to assert their identities, refuse simplistic discourses, promote critical and self-critical understanding and get out from their intellectual, religious and social ghettos. European societies need to see European Muslims involved in the society's questions of the day: citizenship, school, unemployment. Their strength must lie in refusing to be victims and in becoming active citizens, politically engaged both domestically and internationally.
I n the name of the rule of law, democracy and human rights, we cannot accept that the rights of individuals (Arab or Muslim) be trampled upon, or that populations are targeted and discriminated against in the name of the war against terrorism. The strength of democratic societies relies on their capacity to know how to stand firm against extremism while respecting justice in the means used to fight terrorism.
We shall achieve this balance only if every citizen, after the shock of this attack, makes the effort to get to know his neighbour better - his difference, his complexity, his values and hopes. It is not enough for progressive, open-minded people to say, "This is not Islam!" It is urgent that such people meet and act alongside Muslims - practically, concretely, daily. More and more Europeans are becoming passive, comforting themselves with pious vows and idealistic discourses: they want concrete measures against terror but think that "living together" will happen with no effort, as if by magic.
Terror will crash down on us if we fail to understand that a pluralistic society requires the personal and daily commitment of every citizen. Criminals, no doubt, will continue to kill, but we shall be able to respond to them by demonstrating that our experience of human brotherhood and mutual respect is stronger than their message of hate. Our lives are fragile, but our commitment to our ideals is strong.
[size=18]Where is the Gandhi of Islam?[/size]
[b]By Charles Moore[/b]
...
The main spokesman for the Metropolitan Police on Thursday was Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick. He also complained about attacks on "purely innocent members of the public", thereby making one think that there might be other people (police? soldiers? politicians?), who are not purely innocent and should have been attacked instead. Asked about the nature of the terrorists, Mr Paddick said: "Islam and terrorism don't go together."
It is true that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, or involved in terrorism, and this needs to be said strongly if people assert otherwise. But if the Metropolitan Police really believe what Brian Paddick says, if they really, truly think that the words "Islam" and "terrorism" must not be linked, then we have little hope of catching the killers, of understanding how the terrorism works, or of preventing new atrocities.
You can show this with a simple comparison. When Britain was afflicted by Irish republican terrorism, most Irish people repudiated that terrorism. It was nevertheless the case that the great majority of the terrorists - more than 95 per cent - were Irish, or of Irish origin, and they drew overwhelmingly on Irish people to help and hide them.
This was not a funny coincidence. It was because the IRA preached a doctrine about Ireland and called on the loyalty of a perverted version of Irishness. Therefore, the words "Irish" and "terrorist" went together, hard though this was on the majority of Irish people. The Brian Paddicks of the day would have been appallingly negligent if they had not concentrated their investigations among the Irish. And the vigilance of the public, which the police then and now rightly call for, inevitably directed itself towards Irish neighbours, Irish accents, Irish pubs.
...
We flap around, looking for moderates and giving them knighthoods, making placatory noises, putting bits of Islam on to the multi-faith menu in schools, banishing Bibles from hospital beds, trying to criminalise the expression of "religious hatred", blaming George Bush and Tony Blair. But if we do not know the way the faith in question works, its history, its quarrels, its laws and demands, we will not have the faintest chance of distinguishing the true moderate from the fellow-traveller or of bearing down on the fanaticism.
If you look at the Koran, you will find many glorifications of violence. In Sura No 8, for example, God is quoted as saying: "I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers!" This punishment comes to them for having "defied God and His apostle". It seems reasonable to ask Muslims what this sort of remark means in the modern world.
Some will counter that there are plenty of equally nasty dictums in the Old Testament. This is true - though it is surely significant that they are very much harder to find in the New Testament. History is full of violent deeds done in the name of the Christian God.
...
The faith Mohammed taught does not just hope that the world will become Muslim. It wants all human society and politics to be governed by religious law: it draws no distinction between the secular and religious sphere (except to condemn the secular). Therefore, Muslim leaders find it very difficult to resist the hotheads who say that Sharia - the divine law - should be imposed wherever possible.
In addition, the religion is absolute in its attitude to particular bits of territory. It is forbidden, for example, that any other religion be practised in the Arabian peninsula, because that land is considered sacred to Islam. Therefore, it is hard for a "moderate" to oppose the second-class citizenship of Christians or Jews in Muslim lands, or to say that "infidels" fighting in Muslim countries should not be murdered - even when they are his fellow citizens in a Western country.
...
So we have in our midst a religious minority in a state of ferment, and somewhere inside it a number of people (though a tiny proportion of the whole) who want to kill the rest of us. Now, it would seem, they or their foreign allies have succeeded. This country has suffered a greater land-based terrorist death toll than it has ever known before. Instead of subjecting our entire population to the loss of liberties and increase of bureaucratic power which identity cards involve, we should develop a strategy that works out much more precisely where the danger lies, and seeks it out.
...
When a nation, a race, a political movement, a group of workers, the followers of a religion have legitimate grievances, there generally arises amongst them a champion who can command respect for his advocacy of peace, his willingness to fight without weapons and to win by moral authority. There may be many such grievances for Muslims in Britain, and in the West, but we are still waiting for the Gandhi or the Martin Luther King to give them the right voice.
[size=18]Shahara Akther Islam was a lively 20-year-old, a devout Muslim with all her life before her[/size]
[b]On Thursday, she had to attend a dentist's appointment before going to her job at the Co-operative Bank. So she said goodbye to her younger brother at their home in Plaistow, east London, and headed off on the Underground. It was a day like so many others. She never arrived.
[/b]
And now this young woman, who so confidently straddled the twin cultures of her mosque and her city, is missing. She is feared dead, a victim of the horrific violence wreaked on London this week - almost certainly by the terrorists of al-Qa'ida, murdering and maiming in the name of her faith.
Her family fear Shahara was caught up in the explosion that wrecked the Circle line train just beyond Aldgate station at 8.51am on Thursday. The unbroken agony for her family, who spent much of yesterday like other families, desperately but vainly trawling hospitals for news of her, is that they do not yet know for sure. It seems an unspeakably cruel fate for them and for a young woman who could have been a poster girl for young British Muslims today.
Born in Whitechapel to a family who came to Britain in the 1960s from Bangladesh, Shahara has been going to the mosque every Friday with her close-knit family, but she also loves designer handbags, designer clothes and going out with her friends.
"She's one of those people who just makes friends wherever she goes," said her uncle, Nazmul Hasan, who is helping in the search for her.
"She doesn't think that much about politics - she likes hanging out with her friends, talking and laughing a lot. We just want to bring her home - whether that means she's one of the fatalities or not, we just want something to bring home."
Shahara embodies as much as anyone multicultural Britain and the way in which younger generations of Muslims are embracing both their own and Western cultures. She went to Barking Abbey School near her home and took A-levels before leaving school to work at the bank.
"She's a lovely girl, really feminine," her uncle said. "But she didn't want to go to university - she just wanted to start working so she could spend money. She loves her Burberry and Gucci handbags. She doesn't wear a hijab, she wears Western clothes, but she is very close to her family, her mother especially.
"She doesn't have a boyfriend. She is a lovely, well-behaved girl - she has her own opinions and she can hold her own in any company, but she's not a ladette, and we all absolutely adore her."
Mr Hasan went on: "The whole family is just completely devastated. If we had a body, if we knew she was dead, at least we would be able to start mourning. If she was injured really badly, at least we could be there for her in hospital.
"What tortures us is the fact that the police say that there are still bodies in the tunnel. I keep thinking, what if she is lying there, still alive, still just breathing, but needing help, and nobody is coming for her? This is the worst situation to be in."
Shahara's father, Shamsul, 44, a bus supervisor for London Transport, made an appeal for information at East London Mosque, a few hundred yards from the scene of the Aldgate attack. "We have no words to say other than that we hope she will return home. I just hope that everyone is praying for her wellbeing and that she will return home in good health," he said.
"My prayers go to every other family and I hope that they too pray for my daughter.&"
Asked what he thought of those who had committed the attacks, he said: " These people are not human beings, they are not doing anything for Islam. They may call themselves Muslim but there is no such thing as a Muslim killing people."
The family had gathered with thousands of others at the mosque to pray for those caught in the attack. Her mother, Rumena, 40, is a housewife who looks after her 17-year-old brother and 13-year-old sister.
Shahara's uncle said: "Her father is trying to hold it together but her mother is just completely devastated by this."
Omrow, with all due disrespect and contempt…
Shut your stupid mouth.
Nasty little Creep.
[i]Jebi se,[/i] [i]Kurcoglavac[/i].
thot we gna stop being emotional 100?
but still come off it, do u not see it strange that netinyahoo is one of the few that got warned?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_britain_explos...
and blairs advisors where the Israeli counter terrorists
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050707/wl_uk_afp/britainattacksreax_050707...
yeah, yahoo.com is a dodgy web site, but why do u, and the vast population choose to believe a web site, that as far as we know does not exist?
i mean i can copy and paste ur first reply to my post today and apply it to the Israeli terrorists.. and say ur stuffs all twaddle, and your living in denial.. but I wont as it wont achieve anything..
thats gotta raise a 'hmmm'
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
khan,
Strange. Did you read my post?
yep read it, ive also read numerous news articles of how the Israelis refused to comment after the netinyahoo slip up,..
now come on 100, post us a link to the jihadist web site.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
...But MSNBC TV translator Jacob Keryakes, who said that a copy of the message was later posted on a secular Web site, noted that the claim of responsibility [b]contained an error in one of the Quranic verses it cited[/b]. That suggests that the claim may be phony, he said.
"This is not something al-Qaida would do," he said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8496293/
another 'hmmm' ?
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Khan, the other hmmm is a wait and see if the claim bears out, and I agree with you. It's not even a hmmm. Noone in the government is lending it weight.
Don't have one. Your story was filed at 7.14AM. Another was filed at 7.18AM and updated at 9.59AM. One says before the bomb, the other says after. Before and after:
In any case at 7.41AM Amy Tiebel, who wrote your original piece, bravely checks her notes.
I thank you.
[url=http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050708/D8B78UT82.html]This[/url], linked on Drudge, is another AP piece. It's pretty good.
yeh its all good 100 Man,..
im glad u changed ur tune,.. and have accepted that it may not have been 'Islamist Nutters'
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
khan,
Cheeky. I'm pretty sure it was but you're right, we wait. In any case the thing is to know it all has nothing to do with you. I'm not aware you support bin Laden - clarify that briefly if you would, and I'll understand you're just messing around looking at theories.
i dont know bin laden, never met him or any of his boys.
as far as i know from what ive seen of him on his interviews with british journalists, he seems like a very humble figure, when not quoted out of context... I do not support him, and have not seen any credible evidence of him being responsible for acts of terrorism.
the taliban requested evidence from the US prior to them invading afghanistan, the US denied, what I understand from that was the US had none..
u see it was a very sad day in London yesterday. In the articles u posted, the second one states that netinyahoo was informed after the first blast, whether the story was changed or not we do not know..
what we do know is that, watching all the news channels, we were stunned to hear that only after the third explosion did the London police decide that a bomb attack was underway and shut down the system. Until that point they had been theorizing that the train had experienced "a power surge."
now thats a 'hmm'
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I am stopping after the second paragraph, lest I crack up so much I cannot type. Bin Laden is the longstanding Mujahid who often threatens and takes responsibility for attacks against the west. Whatever he believes, publicly he accuses all-powerful Jews and western governments of conspiring to eradicate Islam, and says he sees their wars in that light and the light of the battles described against the dajjal. He calls on all Muslims to rise against these Crusaders, and quotes many Qu'ranic verses supposedly to support his jihad, but who have you come to believe he really is?
Ah, mate...
Hmm, disappointed. Now you're being abusive because you feel unable to comment, condone or challenge my views - yet you still insist on justifying your own apparently without redress. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I don't do flame wars however the mods may have something to say on that.
Racist by selective association..what an acute sense of tolerance which I do hope isn't inflicted on the unwitting white victim be it in an academic, vocational or social capacity..your lack of manners proceeds you.
But still no definition of 'white culture'. Come on dude!
It comes after an undue amount of explaining myself.
What do you define as white culture?
Great minds, irfan.
I understand better now. The suggestion is that I am not against racist whites, but all whites. Happy to clarify. I don't like racists. How about you?
100 - do not be a prat and try and affiliate me wit bin Laden - thats just uncalled for and pure evil.. i knw as much about him as you do..,
its funny how u avoid the point of netinyahoo being told minutes before or after the first blast.. thats from ur own postings dude,
but the british public had been informed after the third, before dat it was a power surge.. wtf's going on there?
that sucks..!.. arnt we humans too?.. do we not have the right to protect our lives?
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
khan,
That isn't what I mean. What I mean is that you will only object so strongly to the assumption it was bin Laden, and it remains probable but an assumption nonetheless, if you benefit by doing this. And the benefit is loss of stigma. What I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure it's bin Laden, I'm thoroughly sick of your theories which are shoddy stories about conspiring Jews in spite of the fact serious and credible, stark evidence suggests otherwise - your stigma isn't real, and I don't want it either. Now, you can say I got you all twisted, but that's my take on you. Muslims defending bin Laden is either bad for Islam, if you are British too, or good for Islam, if Islam is meant to conquer everyone. You reject the second explanation, but you get in the car anyway, and you trap yourself in a no-man's reality. A fantasy.
I've been really thorough and not avoiding anything. Now you've got two new angles. One is the power failure thing. That seems to have become a standard early explanation for disasters of unknown cause. There have been some tremendous, unusual power failures over the last couple of years, and power failures on the scale of the US or European one aren't really common, so I'm in the dark with you about why it came up again, this time with explosions. Last year my brother was on a journey where everyone had to walk down a tube track because of 'power failure' and it wasn't widely reported. My guess is that there was something about power failure, it was correctly interpreted as a risk and reported, a blast was heard, there could be no revising the initial statement because things were totally unclear, and messages were sent out far and wide including the one that reached Netanyahu. Then Amy thingy, who has read many of khan's conspiracy theories and very very stupidly thought she had THE SCOOP on Zionist Crusaders, misreported the Israeli statement, and revised her report, but not before khan had read it and mailed it back with some other dumb suggestions. The second angle, this idea you've been denied the privilege of Netanyahu's warning, is also pretty stupid. It unravelled like it unravelled. Scotland Yard gave the warnings, and no doubt not just to Netanyahu but to anybody they were duty-bound to protect that day.
So, I hope that's clear. I am not aligning you with bin Laden. But, did you get my point? I mean, what's the answer to the question I asked?
and.. er are u suggesting they wernt duty bound to protect the general public?
id like to know who else was informed,..
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I believe messages were also sent to the media, and from there not just London but the world, literally as things happened. You didn't answer my question, or respond properly just now to my points.
Anyway Shabbat Shalom, speak about it some other time.
i believe i have answered it before u even asked.
like i said what i know of bin laden is the same as you.
but i dont see why ur sidetracking to bin laden, as far as we know al-quada may not even be responsible for this,..
way it seems is da netinyahu's safety was put before the safety of Londoners..
is that right? i dont think it is.. i think it sucks.. what do u think 100?
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
y r guys chatting about racism and "white culture" on this thread? a tad off-topic wouldnt u say? so Geroff can u just PM irfan ur definition of it and get tht over and done with plz.
100! y r u swearing at ppl? chil out mate!
oh but latifah, nice reply to omrow, he deserved that! i'd luv a translation of ur last line too
Ed, IS APH ALRIGHT?? (i am making du'a for her friend...)
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Speakn of Aph,
she signed up but never posted...
Does she live n London?
Hope shes alrite.
Back in BLACK
Salam Muslims
Peace Non Muslims
I would like to make few points.
Firstly my prayers and condolence go to those family and friends who have directly or indirectly been affected by the bombing (in particular in this forum Aphrodite). My hope also goes to those who had died as a result of the bombing, Muslim and non-Muslim, that their accountability ends in prosperity (ie Paradise). It is also a reminder for the living - (beleive or disbeleive) that we will indeed meet the Creator so what have we prepared.
Secondly I condemn this attack with the statement of Allah ajja wa jal that whoever kills a person “[b]it is as though he had killed a whole humanity[/b]” [5:32]. Whether it was undertaken by Muslims or not these acts are indeed forbidden and Muslims everywhere especially in Britain must condemn it openly. This condemnation should not be out of guilt that ‘what the kuffar would think of us if we don’t!’ But as to distant the truth of Islam from these forbidden and barbaric acts.
Thirdly it is evident that the Enemies of Islam (Americas, French, Israeli and British [b]authorities[/b] occupying Muslim lands and their puppet rulers) have used this to further subjugate and silence the Muslims. Muslims must hold fast to their identity and continue to speak the truth against the two-facedness and major terrorist acts committed by the enemies of Islam upon the Muslim Ummah. Indeed Robert Fisks article is excellent in this regard.
Fourthly Muslims must be more vigilant for indeed islamaphobia will rise again. Muslims must make sure that their mothers and their sisters are attended, their young and their old are protected and their property and wealth secured.
And finally I would like to say a message specifically to the non Muslim that this attack was upon us too (eg the Muslims community of Edgware and Aldgate) and subsequently we have been made victims. Accordingly this attack should not be seen as separation of our communities but in contrary must reinforce our unity, irrespective of our different values and belief, upon our citizenship. Indeed ken Livingston’s statement made in Singapore comes to mind.
And May Allah, the Most High, Forgive us all.
w/s Muslims
Peace Non Muslims
yes as far as i know, she lives in london...
Aph plz post and let us know ur fine and everything!!
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
I hope all those injured a speedy recovery.
Those that have died I offer their families condolences.
I have been asked to lokc this topic, as its too early and a bit distasteful to start the blame game.
I have not done so, as even if it is distasteful people have questions that need answering.
Who did it? I suggested a few possibilities in my first post. I never did think or do think its the 'far right'. two of the explosions may have been near muslim communities, but the others were not. Either way they were indiscriminate.
If it was Al qaedah, yesterday Tony benn struck a cord with me when he said its not a religious war, but a political one.
IRA is a real possibility as they have been totally sidelined in Northern Ireland. In the past this has lead to violence.
Its probably too big an attack to have been done by G8 anarchists.
Either way lets hope the perpetrators are cought and punished severely. However a Life sentence is not really a severe punishment. In the court of God they will be caught and punished to the extent they deserve.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
[size=18]Living together takes effort[/size]
Every individual can play a part in fighting terror
[b][size=14]Tariq Ramadan[/size][/b]
The message of the criminals who attacked London is plain: "We can strike western societies from within; no one is safe from terror; we have the means to choose the right time, the right places, the right symbols." We must acknowledge that their message, coming the day after the announcement of London's victory to host the Olympic games in 2012, was strong and terrifying.
The objective of these attacks is to make us realise how fragile our societies are. From this feeling of fragility arises fear - for oneself and of the Other.
On Wednesday Londoners were united in joy. Now we face the risk that fear will build walls of doubt and misunderstanding between them. All could come to feel that they are potential victims: of Muslim extremists on the one hand; of rejection and racism on the other. The proponents of the "clash of civilisations" theory will have won if we allow ourselves to become suspicious towards people of other faiths and cultures.
Where does and where shall our strength lie? First, we must condemn these attacks with the strongest energy; Muslims in unison with wider British society. But to condemn is not enough. Our values, our societies, our common future require that we become aware of our shared responsibilities. Yes, London is a multicultural society but - in common with the rest of Europe - it will preserve its pluralistic equilibrium only through the personal engagement of every individual in their daily life, within their own neighbourhood.
Muslims must speak out and explain who they are, what they believe in, what they stand for, what is the meaning of their life. They must have the courage to denounce what is said and done by certain Muslims in the name of their religion. They will not reassure their fellow citizens by pretending to be "like them", saying only what they want to hear and becoming invisible. They have to assert their identities, refuse simplistic discourses, promote critical and self-critical understanding and get out from their intellectual, religious and social ghettos. European societies need to see European Muslims involved in the society's questions of the day: citizenship, school, unemployment. Their strength must lie in refusing to be victims and in becoming active citizens, politically engaged both domestically and internationally.
I n the name of the rule of law, democracy and human rights, we cannot accept that the rights of individuals (Arab or Muslim) be trampled upon, or that populations are targeted and discriminated against in the name of the war against terrorism. The strength of democratic societies relies on their capacity to know how to stand firm against extremism while respecting justice in the means used to fight terrorism.
We shall achieve this balance only if every citizen, after the shock of this attack, makes the effort to get to know his neighbour better - his difference, his complexity, his values and hopes. It is not enough for progressive, open-minded people to say, "This is not Islam!" It is urgent that such people meet and act alongside Muslims - practically, concretely, daily. More and more Europeans are becoming passive, comforting themselves with pious vows and idealistic discourses: they want concrete measures against terror but think that "living together" will happen with no effort, as if by magic.
Terror will crash down on us if we fail to understand that a pluralistic society requires the personal and daily commitment of every citizen. Criminals, no doubt, will continue to kill, but we shall be able to respond to them by demonstrating that our experience of human brotherhood and mutual respect is stronger than their message of hate. Our lives are fragile, but our commitment to our ideals is strong.
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1524839,0... Guardian[/url]
Comments from [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1524815,0... Muslim Youth forum[/url]
Charles Moore strikes again...
[size=18]Where is the Gandhi of Islam?[/size]
[b]By Charles Moore[/b]
...
The main spokesman for the Metropolitan Police on Thursday was Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick. He also complained about attacks on "purely innocent members of the public", thereby making one think that there might be other people (police? soldiers? politicians?), who are not purely innocent and should have been attacked instead. Asked about the nature of the terrorists, Mr Paddick said: "Islam and terrorism don't go together."
It is true that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, or involved in terrorism, and this needs to be said strongly if people assert otherwise. But if the Metropolitan Police really believe what Brian Paddick says, if they really, truly think that the words "Islam" and "terrorism" must not be linked, then we have little hope of catching the killers, of understanding how the terrorism works, or of preventing new atrocities.
You can show this with a simple comparison. When Britain was afflicted by Irish republican terrorism, most Irish people repudiated that terrorism. It was nevertheless the case that the great majority of the terrorists - more than 95 per cent - were Irish, or of Irish origin, and they drew overwhelmingly on Irish people to help and hide them.
This was not a funny coincidence. It was because the IRA preached a doctrine about Ireland and called on the loyalty of a perverted version of Irishness. Therefore, the words "Irish" and "terrorist" went together, hard though this was on the majority of Irish people. The Brian Paddicks of the day would have been appallingly negligent if they had not concentrated their investigations among the Irish. And the vigilance of the public, which the police then and now rightly call for, inevitably directed itself towards Irish neighbours, Irish accents, Irish pubs.
...
We flap around, looking for moderates and giving them knighthoods, making placatory noises, putting bits of Islam on to the multi-faith menu in schools, banishing Bibles from hospital beds, trying to criminalise the expression of "religious hatred", blaming George Bush and Tony Blair. But if we do not know the way the faith in question works, its history, its quarrels, its laws and demands, we will not have the faintest chance of distinguishing the true moderate from the fellow-traveller or of bearing down on the fanaticism.
If you look at the Koran, you will find many glorifications of violence. In Sura No 8, for example, God is quoted as saying: "I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers!" This punishment comes to them for having "defied God and His apostle". It seems reasonable to ask Muslims what this sort of remark means in the modern world.
Some will counter that there are plenty of equally nasty dictums in the Old Testament. This is true - though it is surely significant that they are very much harder to find in the New Testament. History is full of violent deeds done in the name of the Christian God.
...
The faith Mohammed taught does not just hope that the world will become Muslim. It wants all human society and politics to be governed by religious law: it draws no distinction between the secular and religious sphere (except to condemn the secular). Therefore, Muslim leaders find it very difficult to resist the hotheads who say that Sharia - the divine law - should be imposed wherever possible.
In addition, the religion is absolute in its attitude to particular bits of territory. It is forbidden, for example, that any other religion be practised in the Arabian peninsula, because that land is considered sacred to Islam. Therefore, it is hard for a "moderate" to oppose the second-class citizenship of Christians or Jews in Muslim lands, or to say that "infidels" fighting in Muslim countries should not be murdered - even when they are his fellow citizens in a Western country.
...
So we have in our midst a religious minority in a state of ferment, and somewhere inside it a number of people (though a tiny proportion of the whole) who want to kill the rest of us. Now, it would seem, they or their foreign allies have succeeded. This country has suffered a greater land-based terrorist death toll than it has ever known before. Instead of subjecting our entire population to the loss of liberties and increase of bureaucratic power which identity cards involve, we should develop a strategy that works out much more precisely where the danger lies, and seeks it out.
...
When a nation, a race, a political movement, a group of workers, the followers of a religion have legitimate grievances, there generally arises amongst them a champion who can command respect for his advocacy of peace, his willingness to fight without weapons and to win by moral authority. There may be many such grievances for Muslims in Britain, and in the West, but we are still waiting for the Gandhi or the Martin Luther King to give them the right voice.
...
[url=http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=NRO2FEX... Telegraph[/url]
[size=18]Shahara Akther Islam was a lively 20-year-old, a devout Muslim with all her life before her[/size]
[b]On Thursday, she had to attend a dentist's appointment before going to her job at the Co-operative Bank. So she said goodbye to her younger brother at their home in Plaistow, east London, and headed off on the Underground. It was a day like so many others. She never arrived.
[/b]
And now this young woman, who so confidently straddled the twin cultures of her mosque and her city, is missing. She is feared dead, a victim of the horrific violence wreaked on London this week - almost certainly by the terrorists of al-Qa'ida, murdering and maiming in the name of her faith.
Her family fear Shahara was caught up in the explosion that wrecked the Circle line train just beyond Aldgate station at 8.51am on Thursday. The unbroken agony for her family, who spent much of yesterday like other families, desperately but vainly trawling hospitals for news of her, is that they do not yet know for sure. It seems an unspeakably cruel fate for them and for a young woman who could have been a poster girl for young British Muslims today.
Born in Whitechapel to a family who came to Britain in the 1960s from Bangladesh, Shahara has been going to the mosque every Friday with her close-knit family, but she also loves designer handbags, designer clothes and going out with her friends.
"She's one of those people who just makes friends wherever she goes," said her uncle, Nazmul Hasan, who is helping in the search for her.
"She doesn't think that much about politics - she likes hanging out with her friends, talking and laughing a lot. We just want to bring her home - whether that means she's one of the fatalities or not, we just want something to bring home."
Shahara embodies as much as anyone multicultural Britain and the way in which younger generations of Muslims are embracing both their own and Western cultures. She went to Barking Abbey School near her home and took A-levels before leaving school to work at the bank.
"She's a lovely girl, really feminine," her uncle said. "But she didn't want to go to university - she just wanted to start working so she could spend money. She loves her Burberry and Gucci handbags. She doesn't wear a hijab, she wears Western clothes, but she is very close to her family, her mother especially.
"She doesn't have a boyfriend. She is a lovely, well-behaved girl - she has her own opinions and she can hold her own in any company, but she's not a ladette, and we all absolutely adore her."
Mr Hasan went on: "The whole family is just completely devastated. If we had a body, if we knew she was dead, at least we would be able to start mourning. If she was injured really badly, at least we could be there for her in hospital.
"What tortures us is the fact that the police say that there are still bodies in the tunnel. I keep thinking, what if she is lying there, still alive, still just breathing, but needing help, and nobody is coming for her? This is the worst situation to be in."
Shahara's father, Shamsul, 44, a bus supervisor for London Transport, made an appeal for information at East London Mosque, a few hundred yards from the scene of the Aldgate attack. "We have no words to say other than that we hope she will return home. I just hope that everyone is praying for her wellbeing and that she will return home in good health," he said.
"My prayers go to every other family and I hope that they too pray for my daughter.&"
Asked what he thought of those who had committed the attacks, he said: " These people are not human beings, they are not doing anything for Islam. They may call themselves Muslim but there is no such thing as a Muslim killing people."
The family had gathered with thousands of others at the mosque to pray for those caught in the attack. Her mother, Rumena, 40, is a housewife who looks after her 17-year-old brother and 13-year-old sister.
Shahara's uncle said: "Her father is trying to hold it together but her mother is just completely devastated by this."
[url=http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article297924.ece]The Independent[/url]
Inshallah her friend has a speedy recovery and i hope she is fine to, I had aph's email add but it got lost when the old forum was lost..
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